Tattoos

[Astral Monk]

Nothing has objective meaning.  That's the nature of meaning.

 

A finger is a finger, middle or not.  What is 'means' is nothing, what it can mean is everything.

 

A smile can be both welcoming and dangerous.  A frown sad and pensive. 

 

There is no end to the attribution of meaning through symbolism.  It is because all 'things' are empty of 'meaning' that we can endlessly attribute meanings to them.

 

8)

 

OK, what has "objective meaning?"

What's the objective meaning of the middle finger?..

Of a smile?

Of a frown?

Of the flag of a nation?

Of the flag of a nation being burned?

[Astral Monk]

Like the bagua in my icon.  The pre-heaven bagua.  I choose that because of the representation of the perfect order of forces before the movement of creation, so an ideal balance.

 

The three undivided lines represent 'heaven', but only because we say so, not because lines together in a group divided or undivided bear any direct and necessary relationship to whatever it is that we group under the concept of 'heaven'.  The lines stand as a sign for us to reflect on or even construct a concept.  But if no one ever said they represented 8 elements, no one would ever take them to represent 8 elements.

 

8)

Edited October 20, 2015 by Astral Monk

[Taomeow]

Like the bagua in my icon.  The pre-heaven bagua.  I choose that because of the representation of the perfect order of forces before the movement of creation, so an ideal balance.

 

The three undivided lines represent 'heaven', but only because we say so, not because lines together in a group divided or undivided bear any direct and necessary relationship to whatever it is that we group under the concept of 'heaven'.  The lines stand as a sign for us to reflect on or even construct a concept.  But if no one ever said they represented 8 elements, no one would ever take them to represent 8 elements.

 

8)

 

 

Ah, where taoist symbols are concerned, I could prove that the fundamental ones are derived from reality itself, but it will take some time.  Perhaps later... 

[AussieTrees]

The kids wouldn't,t go to bed one night,so let stay up a while.

 

We watched our first episodes of 'tattoo nightmare',we all had a laugh.

 

This guy wanted to cover his tattoo of an upsidedown cross and at each end was finished in a penis head.This tattoo was on his chest.

 

His nick there after was Dick Cross.haha

 

Good cover up,can't emember what it was transformed into though.

[Nungali]

One of my Tatts that I got years ago ( before hand ) has since become a virtual symbol of  Aussie white  racial fascism .  

 

But then again ... so has our flag    

 

Australia Day: “Our police will target anyone wearing an Australian flag cape”

 

http://www.betootaadvocate.com/uncategorized/australia-day-our-police-will-target-anyone-wearing-an-australian-flag-cape/

 

 

 

[Golden Dragon Shining]

You have a tattoo of this woman on you?

[Nungali]

Yes, that right .... I have a tattoo of Pauline Hanson .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

From Fish and chip takeaway shop lady to federal politician .

 

 

 

[dust]

So......anyway........

 

 

http://www.nature.com/news/intricate-animal-and-flower-tattoos-found-on-egyptian-mummy-1.19864?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNews

 

Again, I'm not claiming that old = 'good'... but I think this is pretty cool.

 

The Eye of Horus between 2 baboons. The Eye is a symbol of protection in the first place, and baboons were apparently associated with Thoth, intelligence, sex, and guarding the dead, among other things.

Edited May 9, 2016 by dustybeijing

[Taoway]

So... it would seem that a large portion of Bums are not big on tattoos. Each to their own, of course. If everyone enjoyed tattoos as I do, it would come at the loss of the enjoyment of many other things in the world.

 

So my intention is not to try and coerce anyone to come to an appreciation of tattoos; I cannot be coerced into an appreciation of heavy metal, for example, or country music, and would not appreciate anyone trying.

 

But for anyone happy to watch or take part, here's a topic about tattoos. Say what you will.

 

To begin, as there is a general appreciation for Eastern art on TDB, I thought I'd share a little bit of history and some pieces by Chinese and Japanese artists in the Chinese/Japanese style.

 

 

_________________________________

 

China and Japan both have a long history of tattooing, of which nobody is entirely sure of the development. Certainly, as Marco Polo attested, tattoos were common amongst the Dai people in China (a tradition which continues to this day in Yunnan and Burma), where men and women alike were marked using "five needles joined together ... they prick the flesh till the blood comes, and then they rub in a certain black coloring stuff." And the women of the Ainu people, indigenous to Japan and Russia (and who now number only in the hundreds of thousands), apparently qualified for marriage only once their lip, hand, and arm tattoos, started at 12, had been completed by the age of 16.

 

Of the hundreds of tribes, and the cultures or subcultures that have existed between China and Japan over the last few thousand years, tattooing has been practiced by a few, and known to many. In the last few hundred years, however, in both China and Japan tattoos were more generally used as marks of punishment and therefore, like many other places in the world, associated with criminals. Minorities such as the Dai and Ainu were (and still are) just that: minorities.

 

So, at what point did that begin to change?

 

The Chinese author Shi Nai'an (施耐庵) is thought to have died in 1372. Though his existence, as with many other ancient figures, is disputed, it is certain that before this date, he or someone using this pseudonym wrote one of the Four Great Classical Novels of China, Water Margin 《水浒传》. Based loosely on real people and events, five of the main characters in this novel of brotherhood and courage are depicted with full-body tattoos. Lu Zhishen, for example, is nicknamed the "Flowery Monk", as his torso was adorned with flowers, and the handsome Yan Qing is described as having similar ornamentation.

 

 

Shi Jin as depicted by Utagawa Kuniyoshi (1798-1861)

 

Another prominent character is Shi Jin, a.k.a. "Nine Tattooed Dragons"（九纹龙). As described in the book, a master craftman "pricked his body with flowery embroidery; chest, shoulders, and arms, altogether nine dragons, and everyone in the county called him ‘Nine Tattooed Dragons Shi Jin’." (九纹龙史进 - it sounds a lot better in Chinese).

 

Anyway, as you might have guessed from its status as one of the "Four Great" novels of Chinese history, this story was hugely popular in China, and later became equally popular in Japan. Translations of Water Margin into Japanese (as Suikoden) date back to at least (and probably before) 1757. With the story's immediate success, demand for the type of tattoos seen in the woodblock illustrations of the translated novel became huge, and these Japanese woodblock artists started adapting their tools to be able to inject their designs into skin. This is where irezumi - Japanese tattooing as we know it today - began.

 

Irezumi and Suikoden, then, are irreversibly linked, as are modern Chinese and Japanese tattoo culture. Tattooing in China today wouldn't exist as it is without irezumi, and irezumi wouldn't exist without that ancient Chinese story of rebellion and heroism. I, for one, am glad for it all.

 

 

by Qiangzi, Qiangzi Tattoo, Beijing

 

by Shige, Yellow Blaze Tattoo, Yokohama

 

by ?, Prison Break Tattoo, Shanghai

 

by Joey Pang, Tattoo Temple, Hong Kong

I am apprenticing soon to learn to tattoo. I'd enjoy talking about tattoo art with you.

 

I grew most with my art when I started learning Japanese irezumi style.

[Taoway]

Well in Islam its said a person with tatoo will receive a grievious punishment in the hereafter and certainly ne'r taste paradise. Wow a bit of ink on your skin equals cause for eternal damnation. Another reason religion is bonkers.

 

To each their own. I like a tatoo that has meaning, that tells a story, that reflects something of personal value to the bearer. I dont care for whole body art or sleeves etc but thats my pref just based on appearances.

 

Symbols dont have objective meaning. Theyre only contextual and transient, so you cant have a wring symbol because its value is only what you put into it.

 

8)

I find small tattoos with meaning nice but being an artist I appreciate large pieces more just because it's fun!

[dust]

I am apprenticing soon to learn to tattoo. I'd enjoy talking about tattoo art with you.

 

I grew most with my art when I started learning Japanese irezumi style.

 

I'm not in the biz anymore, but still love tattoos. To talk about it with a fellow bum would be cool.

[Taoway]

I'm not in the biz anymore, but still love tattoos. To talk about it with a fellow bum would be cool.

You used to tattoo? What styles do you enjoy ?

[dust]

I apprenticed in Beijing with a couple of artists. Qiangzi, who did the sleeve with coloured lotus flowers in my OP, was an excellent teacher. His Chinese/Japanese style stuff is incredible..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To look at, I like a whole variety of styles..all sorts!

For myself, I think I just want animals.. birds and maybe some other stuff.. and maybe some Chinese calligraphy mixed in..

 

 

What about you?

[Taoway]

I apprenticed in Beijing with a couple of artists. Qiangzi, who did the sleeve with coloured lotus flowers in my OP, was an excellent teacher. His Chinese/Japanese style stuff is incredible..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To look at, I like a whole variety of styles..all sorts!

For myself, I think I just want animals.. birds and maybe some other stuff.. and maybe some Chinese calligraphy mixed in..

 

 

What about you?

Did you really?? Wow what a cool thing it is to come across someone like you on Tao bums! I see some tremendously talented artists in china. Those backpieces are amazing.

 

I am just like that with just wanting lots of nature. I even want to develop some sort of style to tattoo neo styled landscape paintings on people.

 

I also really enjoy the neo traditional work done today. It's like simple line work of a wolf for example but awesome realistic shading. I'm sure you knew of that though! I say that though because I now realize that this newer Japanese style is a neo irezumi. I like making really detailed peonies and what not.

 

Is there any where I can show you my art for some advice? I don't know how to share pictures on here.

[dust]

If you go to "More Reply Options" (next to "Post") you can upload and attach images.

(click "Choose Files", then select image, and then click "Add to Post")

 

Or you can click the greenish square in the reply box to link from on the net.

It's below the yellow smiley face and left of the Twitter icon. Can link from Facebook, Wordpress, etc etc.

 

I'm not sure how good my advice would be though...I've always been the one asking for advice

 

You mean Chinese style landscape painting tattoos? Yeah that would be cool. This is along those lines I guess, Chinese painting on the skin (I worked on it a bit, but only on the Chinese characters, when I was apprenticing):

 

[dust]

These guys in Hong Kong do some amazing neo-traditional stuff. I really love the calligraphy stuff by Joey Pang.

 

http://tattootemple.deviantart.com/gallery/

http://tattootemple.tumblr.com/

 

 

[Taoway]

Here a few recent ones.

[Taoway]

That second link you sent has some styles I've never even seen before! The blue dragon leg piece has waves and clouds I have yet to see. I learn a lot from it!it must be the Chinese eye for these things

[dust]

Here a few recent ones.

 

 

When I started learning, I was told that Westerners had no idea about liyu (koi), we make them look floppy and soft and lacking finesse; they said I would have to practice, practice, practice, just fish, for the first few weeks. It is true that my first attempts were terrible. It wasn't until my second teacher that I really grasped all the tricks needed to create an excellent koi.

 

Yours is unexpectedly good. Your waves too. How long have you been practicing? Is it an original or a copy? (no problem if it's a copy -- I've often heard that the best way for any artist to start is to copy, copy, copy)

 

However -- and this is just my perspective based on the Chinese style -- there are a few ways to improve it.

 

-- the barbels ('whiskers') could be a tiny bit longer, with more exaggerated curves, flowing with the water

-- the contours of the head could be more defined, more rounded. Maybe even with some details. Some guys like to put a jewel or some other decoration on the forehead

-- the scales are really good, nice and even. They maybe could flow a tiny bit more with the curve of the body

-- it's hard to see the tailfin, but it could be more 'flowy' -- some flourishes/curves at the end, to show how it's whipping through the water

-- you'll get a nicer shading with decent quality colour pencils (looks like you've used pens?)

 

I'm not saying you should add all this to every piece. Just some ideas.

 

I will post some sketches from a couple of Chinese artists. They're too big to upload here so will link them later. Could be very useful.

 

 

[Taoway]

 

When I started learning, I was told that Westerners had no idea about liyu (koi), we make them look floppy and soft and lacking finesse; they said I would have to practice, practice, practice, just fish, for the first few weeks. It is true that my first attempts were terrible. It wasn't until my second teacher that I really grasped all the tricks needed to create an excellent koi.

 

Yours is unexpectedly good. Your waves too. How long have you been practicing? Is it an original or a copy? (no problem if it's a copy -- I've often heard that the best way for any artist to start is to copy, copy, copy)

 

However -- and this is just my perspective based on the Chinese style -- there are a few ways to improve it.

 

-- the barbels ('whiskers') could be a tiny bit longer, with more exaggerated curves, flowing with the water

-- the contours of the head could be more defined, more rounded. Maybe even with some details. Some guys like to put a jewel or some other decoration on the forehead

-- the scales are really good, nice and even. They maybe could flow a tiny bit more with the curve of the body

-- it's hard to see the tailfin, but it could be more 'flowy' -- some flourishes/curves at the end, to show how it's whipping through the water

-- you'll get a nicer shading with decent quality colour pencils (looks like you've used pens?)

 

I'm not saying you should add all this to every piece. Just some ideas.

 

I will post some sketches from a couple of Chinese artists. They're too big to upload here so will link them later. Could be very useful.

 

 

Wow! Thank you. Those tips are exactly what I have been trying to figure out all this time! And I like the idea of practicing koi over and over. I gotta do them as much as I draw peony.

 

I started really getting serious with design a year and a half ago. My kois definitely looked floppy haha. And my biggest mistake has been .. not refrencing off of a real koi! To understand the features clearly.

Also I have had trouble with rounding the scales with the body. Still have not fully understood that because I use other artists koi fish as a reference but do mine completely different. I never seem to copy a person's work.

But really observing koi snd referencing off them will show me what you're talking about.

 

Also I use those japanesw Copic markers.

I also have used color pencils but don't fully understand how to use them.

 

Also I've drawn waves over and over again and it took me a while to get to these but even so I still think these waves in the koi design look weird.

[dust]

Wow! Thank you. Those tips are exactly what I have been trying to figure out all this time! And I like the idea of practicing koi over and over. I gotta do them as much as I draw peony.

 

Yeah I think so. Practice practice....

 

 

I started really getting serious with design a year and a half ago. My kois definitely looked floppy haha. And my biggest mistake has been .. not refrencing off of a real koi! To understand the features clearly.

Also I have had trouble with rounding the scales with the body. Still have not fully understood that because I use other artists koi fish as a reference but do mine completely different. I never seem to copy a person's work.

But really observing koi snd referencing off them will show me what you're talking about.

 

Honestly, I've never referenced off a real koi, and nobody told me to -- the look they go for is less realistic and more stylized.

 

But I guess it could be a help to learn how to draw the real fish and how they move, and then apply the stylized lines and shading of the Asian tattoo style.

 

Instead of pictures, here is the best teaching material I can possibly give you over the internet: a short video of one of my teacher's other students, very talented guy, drawing a koi.

 

Around 3-4 minutes he starts the scales, fitting them perfectly with the flow of the body. If you learn this technique properly it could be very very helpful.

 

(be patient, you will have to sit through a few minutes of ads before the vid starts. If you have adblock it won't let you watch..)

 

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzk0NDk0MDE2.html

 

 

Also I use those japanesw Copic markers.

I also have used color pencils but don't fully understand how to use them.

 

Yeah, they take a while to get used to. If you are patient, start soft and slow, light colours first, you can get much more detail in, and much smoother shading.

 

 

Also I've drawn waves over and over again and it took me a while to get to these but even so I still think these waves in the koi design look weird.

 

I like them. They are better than 90% of tattoo waves that I've seen by non-Chinese people. My advice is just do more research, look at different styles, especially Chinese and Japanese masters...

[doc benway]

I admire the artistry of tattoos and have none myself. 

 

My good friend recently got a hah taew tattoo in Thailand.

It cost $3 US and he gave the Temple a $10 tip... 

 

http://sakyantmagicalthaitattoo.com/index.php/hah-taew-5-lines/