Bringing modern artefacts back to ancient civilizations

[soaring crane]

Yesterday, I daydreamed about bringing a mountain bike to ancient China.

 

How do you think they'd respond to it?

 

And what would you bring to when?

[Nungali]

Not on topic exactly .... but when I visited Koori camp  I took  a large box of assorted fishing tackle    .... and some spare -  hand spear for fishing - heads ( they keep breaking them on rocks from missed shots underwater) , some new Brazilian machetes .... instantly snaffled and put in a safe place .    

 

Next trip I plan to take a large stainless steel keg with a brass tap welded into it ( for putting over the fire - hot water )  . 

 

IN a fantasy time travel ?    Axe heads, and other metallic blades. 

[soaring crane]

IN a fantasy time travel ?    Axe heads, and other metallic blades. 

 

hmmm, thinking about your own survival then? I was thinking more along the lines of blowing their minds and giving them something to work with. I first thought about a dune buggy, but once the gas runs out, it's just a museum piece. That's why I went with mountain bike. And it's something they could replicate pretty quickly. Bamboo bikes are on the market now anyway.

 

A solar-powered flashlight would be pretty amazing, especially if it had a secret on/off switch so I would be the sole bearer of immortal light haha :-)

 

Would they kill me for it, or worship me?

 

Of course, a first aid kit with antibiotics would probably be the most important for the short term ....

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

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"Of course, a first aid kit with antibiotics would probably be the most important for the short term ...."

-----

 

I don't think people were as politically antibiotic back then, and probably they also had actually working immune systems.

 

But a brightly colored plastic bottle would've blown people's mind. Nobody would be able to duplicate it.

 

Same goes, probably, for even a simple roll of reflective mylar.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[soaring crane]

Re:

-----

"Of course, a first aid kit with antibiotics would probably be the most important for the short term ...."

-----

 

I don't think people were as politically antibiotic back then, and probably they also had actually working immune systems.

 

But a brightly colored plastic bottle would've blown people's mind. Nobody would be able to duplicate it.

 

Same goes, probably, for even a simple roll of reflective mylar.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

I was thinking more of the microbes of that time which we're not exposed to and which would probably kill us in a month. Same as someone from two thousand years ago being transported to the 21st century

[AussieTrees]

Hi soaring crane,

 

There are many hours of wonder to be had in looking at life through red coloured cellophane or any coloured cellophane.

[soaring crane]

Hi soaring crane,

 

There are many hours of wonder to be had in looking at life through red coloured cellophane or any coloured cellophane.

Haha, love it :-)

 

A simple kaleidoscope!

[Brian]

Toilet paper.

 

When the end comes -- EMP, asteroid strike, zombie apocalypse, whatever -- I'm collecting toilet paper by the pallet. I figure it will be an appreciating resource while supplies last.

[AussieTrees]

Paper planes are fun,I have an A4 design guarantee to fly.

[soaring crane]

Toilet paper.

 

When the end comes -- EMP, asteroid strike, zombie apocalypse, whatever -- I'm collecting toilet paper by the pallet. I figure it will be an appreciating resource while supplies last.

Hmm... My years of ultramarathoning made me appreciate wet grass for that purpose. Enough so that I've found myself at times wishing we had some in the bathroom lol

[Nungali]

hmmm, thinking about your own survival then? I was thinking more along the lines of blowing their minds and giving them something to work with. I first thought about a dune buggy, but once the gas runs out, it's just a museum piece. That's why I went with mountain bike. And it's something they could replicate pretty quickly. Bamboo bikes are on the market now anyway.

 

A solar-powered flashlight would be pretty amazing, especially if it had a secret on/off switch so I would be the sole bearer of immortal light haha :-)

 

Would they kill me for it, or worship me?

 

Of course, a first aid kit with antibiotics would probably be the most important for the short term ....

 

 

Ohhhh ... I see ... this is an 'impress the savage with my God like technology'   ego thread   

 

No - I was actually going to take the metal and axes for them  , not for my own survival  .   I guess I must have been 'adversely ' conditioned by the reality of visiting 'stone age'    people        ( no, that wasn't an insult .... they choose to  have a little camp like that away from everything .. still, they can get your car going when you cant     .  They can still make good stone axes , used for special purposes and ceremonies and in the traditional camp (no modern technology... but the other camp, where white fellas are allowed to stay , mod cons are appreciated ) . 

[Nungali]

Re:

-----

"Of course, a first aid kit with antibiotics would probably be the most important for the short term ...."

-----

 

I don't think people were as politically antibiotic back then, and probably they also had actually working immune systems.

 

But a brightly colored plastic bottle would've blown people's mind. Nobody would be able to duplicate it.

 

Same goes, probably, for even a simple roll of reflective mylar.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Sorry to harp on the Aussieoriginals, but this is my experience ;  

 

1. yes, they would have had excellent but specific immune systems .... which may lead to ; 

 

2. After you impress them playing spotlight with your torch, they may all drop dead from influenza . 

 

3.   Ooooooo    shiny   !      - you betchya     

 

Anyone seen 'Travellers in Time" ? It is the first films ever made of various indigenous peoples. Its quiet amazing; in the one in New Guinea , they even have a verbal record ;

 

Some tribesman  (going on my memory) ; " They ( the white men) were sitting around the fire and they didnt seem to notice 'the thing' . It was shining like the sun, next to the fire and I could see the fire inside of it. So I slowly moved closer to it until I could  stretch out my hand towards it, it didnt burn it, so I moved closer. I thought, if I touched it, I might die, but this was my chance, if I could get it, I would be like no one else. The white men looked away, and I snatched it up and hid it . It didnt burn me. Then I left the fire and went away to look at the thing. The next day I wove it into my head dress as the center piece. It was the best head dress in the village, and now the 'thing' was mine. 

 

- it was a discarded lid off a jam tin. I have also seen an early head dress decorated with exotic bird feathers and a piece of a 'Wheet-bix' packet as the center piece. 

Edited October 13, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

First demonstration of a gun ! 

 

http://aso.gov.au/titles/documentaries/first-contact/clip1/

 

(link may not work for outside Oz ? ) 

 

 

 

 

https://vimeo.com/51548963

 

 -  This one is 'First Contact' . The NG part of the Travelers in Time doco,  ( first plane arrives  @ 33:15 - a bit later , a phonograph !  I remember the early pidgin 'word' used to describe the first piano ever taken there; " You sit 'im, big table, hit black and white, fellah inside him sing out nice " .  ) 

 

another part was the American Indians ... amazing !

 

I remember one scene , a narrow cliff path, the horses and men in single file, the horses absolutely packed with photographic glass plates. A horse slips and goes over the edge and the horse and hundreds of original first contact photographs plunge to the bottom of the gorge in a shower of fractured glass - lost forever ! 

Edited October 13, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Toilet paper.

 

When the end comes -- EMP, asteroid strike, zombie apocalypse, whatever -- I'm collecting toilet paper by the pallet. I figure it will be an appreciating resource while supplies last.

 

 

I hope ya gotta gun to protect that toilet paper ?  

 

[Nungali]

Hmm... My years of ultramarathoning made me appreciate wet grass for that purpose. Enough so that I've found myself at times wishing we had some in the bathroom lol

 

 

Just curious .... did you pick a handful and wipe ... or did you 

 

 

[Brian]

I hope ya gotta gun to protect that toilet paper ?

 

Think Elmer Fudd instead.

[Taomeow]

  I would load my time machine with an assortment of implements of torture --  here's a few, out of many hundreds in existence, I would want to show

 

• Boot
• Brazen bull
• Breaking wheel
• Breast ripper
• Catapelta^{[citation needed]}
• Choke pear
• Cattle prod
• Electroshock weapon
• Heretic's fork
• Instep borer

• Iron chair
• Iron Maiden
• Judas Chair
• Kia quen / Tean zu
• Mancuerda
• Parrilla
• Pau de Arara
• Pendulum^[1] (of disputed historicity)
• Picana
• Pillory
• Pimp stick

• Rack
• Rope
• Scavenger's daughter
• Scold's bridle
• Stocks
• Tablilla
• Thumbscrew
• Tongue shredder
• Tramp chair
• Tucker telephone
• Wooden horse

 

 

 

 

and explain how they were used for

• Abacination
• Beatings and physical violence
• Blinding with light
• Boiling
• Bone breaking
• Branding
• Castration
• Chinese water torture
• Choking/Strangling
• Combing
• Crushing
• Cutting
• Denailing
• Disfigurement
• Drowning
• Dunking
• Flagellation
• Flaying
• Foot roasting
• Foot whipping
• Force-feeding
• Genital mutilation/forced circumcision
• Hamstringing
• Kneecapping
• Keelhauling
• Mutilation
• Noise (see Sound entry)
• Oxygen deprivation
• Pitchcapping
• Pressure points
• Rat torture
• Riding the Rail
• Sexual assault
• Sawing
• Scalping
• Scaphism
• Sleep deprivation
• Sound (extremely high volumes, dynamic range, low frequency, high pitched noise, intended to interfere with rest, cognition and concentration).
• Starvation
• Strappado/squassation (also known as "reverse hanging" and "Palestinian hanging")
• Stress positions
• Ta'liq hanging from a metal bar.
• Tarring and feathering
• Thumbscrew (torture)
• Tickle torture
• Tooth extraction
• Walling
• Water cure
• Waterboarding

 

And I would explain to them why the single most important story they should start telling their children is not the story of the past but the story of the future, the future they want to avoid at all costs.  After everybody has thoroughly understood what those tools and methods are used for in the future, I will of course blow up the whole lot.  But then, if what I'm trying to accomplish will indeed happen and the story of the future to avoid at all costs will take root, the tools I'd brought along will simply disappear, because the future will have been changed so that they never appear.   

[mostly_empty]

Yesterday, I daydreamed about bringing a mountain bike to ancient China.

 

How do you think they'd respond to it?

 

And what would you bring to when?

 

What would I bring? Something portable, renewable, clean yet amazing high tech.

Bagua?

 

Oh wait....

[Stosh]

Bringing anything, is interfering, even , penicillin. Its the geneneral presumption that technologies improve lives , that one situation is better than another, which prompts interference. IMO, dao suggests that we actively try to be of no influence beyond looking after our own business ,OR, that in being wise daoists we consequently believe we do the least harm by avoiding embroilment.

[mostly_empty]

Bringing anything, is interfering, even , penicillin. Its the geneneral presumption that technologies improve lives , that one situation is better than another, which prompts interference. IMO, dao suggests that we actively try to be of no influence beyond looking after our own business ,OR, that in being wise daoists we consequently believe we do the least harm by avoiding embroilment.

 

I did, once, feel that Daoist writings were an excellent excuse to avoid life.

Waiting for the right moment to act ... I grew lazy and fat!

And it was all LaoZi's fault! We must avoid strife.

This business of phyto-taoistic non-interaction is wrong - just watch a cat.

 

And while I will admit that technology is unfortunately not always a solution

it is probably our lack of wisdom - the worst pollution.

[Stosh]

Dunno what you mean, my cat looks after herself , isnt interfering with the events in my life. If you at one time used Daoist teachings to avoid things that you needed to deal with, that would be your own error, and you should accept that you were reaping your own crop.

 

Theres a fundamental philosophic issue here. It is whether you think interfering is inherently problematic, 'bad' ..... or 'good'. An Ex: TM would bring instruments of torture, as an object lesson ,I guess,, but it could just as easily increase the horrors folks endured for thousands of years.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Stosh

[thelerner]

Let's see.. what would I bring.  My ipad, one with cellular since wifii might not be too good back then.  Solar charger..  Wrist rocket slingshot, with extra chords, some larger steel ball ammo.  Wire for trapping.  Water purifier straw.  Canteen.  Magnifying glass.   A couple good knives.  Small fire crackers, matches.  Very important, a well trained German Shepard or similar highly intelligent guard dog.   Seeds, tomato, cucumber, peppers, lettuce, perhaps fruit and nut tree seeds.  Water proof bags.. Small tent, hammock, duct tape, journal, pencils.. toothbrush and ofcourse a towel.

 

The ipad sets me up as godlike, ie captures and replays people's images, as well as play Angry Birds.  It also gives me a 1,000 useful books full of information (maybe I'll bring a backup).   A wrist rocket can take out small, sometimes medium sized prey, plus ammo is free.  A good dog amplifies your power greatly; protector, hunter and companion with senses (and loyalty) far beyond your own. 

 

The greatest good I could do is set up a garden.  The most precious thing I have would be seeds.  After establishing my Wizard creds, planting a garden.  Sharing its goods.  Establishing a grove that'll feed others.

 

Also on the to do list would be setting up the first Burning Man Festival, as well as spread the Man's 10 Principles.  Yup, gardening, Burning Man festival, some chick I rescue from the Morlocks.. that's all I need.

 

 

 

Burning Man's 10 Principles:

1. Radical Inclusion
Anyone may be a part of Burning Man. We welcome and respect the stranger. No prerequisites exist for participation in our community.

2. Gifting
Burning Man is devoted to acts of gift giving. The value of a gift is unconditional. Gifting does not contemplate a return or an exchange for something of equal value.

3. Decommodification
In order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.

4. Radical Self-Reliance
Burning Man encourages the individual to discover, exercise and rely on his or her inner resources.

5. Radical Self-Expression
Radical self-expression arises from the unique gifts of the individual. No one other than the individual or a collaborating group can determine its content. It is offered as a gift to others. In this spirit, the giver should respect the rights and liberties of the recipient.

6. Communal Effort
Our community values creative cooperation and collaboration. We strive to produce, promote and protect social networks, public spaces, works of art, and methods of communication that support such interaction.

7. Civic Responsibility
We value civil society. Community members who organize events should assume responsibility for public welfare and endeavor to communicate civic responsibilities to participants. They must also assume responsibility for conducting events in accordance with local, state and federal laws.

8. Leaving No Trace
Our community respects the environment. We are committed to leaving no physical trace of our activities wherever we gather. We clean up after ourselves and endeavor, whenever possible, to leave such places in a better state than when we found them.

9. Participation
Our community is committed to a radically participatory ethic. We believe that transformative change, whether in the individual or in society, can occur only through the medium of deeply personal participation. We achieve being through doing. Everyone is invited to work. Everyone is invited to play. We make the world real through actions that open the heart.

10. Immediacy
Immediate experience is, in many ways, the most important touchstone of value in our culture. We seek to overcome barriers that stand between us and a recognition of our inner selves, the reality of those around us, participation in society, and contact with a natural world exceeding human powers. No idea can substitute for this experience.

Edited October 15, 2015 by thelerner

[thelerner]

  I would load my time machine with an assortment of implements of torture --  here's a few, out of many hundreds in existence, I would want to show..

I don't know, seems a waste to bring all that stuff and not use it..   

[Golden Dragon Shining]

I'd take back information, unite the Celt and Germanic Pagan peoples and make sure they subdue Rome, with no allowance for Christianity. With this ancient Pagan libraries etc would remain keeping all ancient knowledge. Pagan philosophical schools would continue. Nature based traditions. Ideologies of "the world was made for us", "one true god" etc would not exist and neither the missionary zeal to "save the world". Pagan Europe continues uninterrupted and the world/civilization is thousands of years more advanced because of it.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Sionnach

[Taomeow]

I don't know, seems a waste to bring all that stuff and not use it..   

 

Oh, I'll use it, but not in the manner of those who commissioned the creation and ordered the use of this equipment.   What I've got for them is worse than any torture they ever got their evil fix of adrenochrome from administering.  I will punish them with uncreation. 

 

Not only will their reign of pain and terror unleashed on most humans in most times in most places, the only thing that made us what we are today, never come to pass.  I will turn the most powerful shamans of prehistory (and powerful they were, verily) against them, I will so horrify my beloved prehistoric sisters and brothers with the future of humanity that will unfold unless they stop it, that they will stop it for all eternity. 

 

It is a well-known fact in the magical sects of taoism that the worst of vendettas are taken into the afterlife and go on for thousands of years if necessary.  I'll do something even worse than that to the overlords of pain.  I will have them banished into the uncreateable forever.  Certain potentially possible things have an innate prohibition on being created -- e.g. division by zero, or kosher pork, or diamond juice, or pot-smoking sharks, stuff like that.  I will get our civilization of the "historic" as we call it period right into that category.  I have a plan.