Did the USA really kill Osama Bin Laden?

[MooNiNite]

My friend recently opened my eyes a little more with some interesting information surrounding the supposed assassination of Osama Bin Laden.

 

There are no photos. The only one that supposedly existed was immediately destroyed after the president saw it.

 

They disposed of his body at sea. (This is strange, and doesn't allow any confirmation of the body whatsoever.)

 

All of the seals and combat personnel involved in the killing are dead. They either died in a helicopter crash or died strangely. These are supposed to be the most elite combat people in our country, you would think they would be a little more resilient to death. 

 

 

So there is absolutely no actual reason to believe that we killed him. Besides "faith" in our government. 

 

Please correct me if i'm wrong. 

 

MSN article: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/what-do-we-really-know-about-osama-bin-laden%E2%80%99s-death/ar-AAftW0F?li=AAa0dzB

[MooNiNite]

Edit: Just read that most of the navy seals involved in killing Osama, have undisclosed identities. So it would be difficult to know if they died or not. I'm hoping that someone has a more educated voice on this matter though. 

Edited October 15, 2015 by MooNiNite

[thelerner]

One or two seals, wrote a book about it.  Movies, books and documentaries explaining how they found him and every aspect of the mission.  To have photos or bring back a body (dead or alive) would be creating a pile of complications.  A raid did go down and it created an international incident as well as some interesting almost real time media footprint here and abroad. 

 

If the raid had failed, it'd be stupid to say it worked and have the guy get on TV the next day saying 'Ha ha, you missed, I'm protected by a Higher Power'.   If that happened all the propaganda value would be on there side, not the US's.

 

If he was already dead, even by natural causes, they could have published it years earlier and just said body burned and blasted beyond recognition.   The Taliban never even went with he died of natural causes, I don't think they've gone with the story he's alive and well.  If he was alive, you'd think he'd be a little more active. 

 

Third scenario he's alive and in custody.   Which after getting information would go back to 'A'; He's dead.  In any case doesn't the author's suppose bin Laden was shot up and the pieces tossed out of a helicopter?  

 

For a more in-depth look here's an article that looks into the allegation: http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden    The many problems with Seymour Hersh's Osama bin Laden conspiracy theory

Edited October 15, 2015 by thelerner

[MooNiNite]

One or two seals, wrote a book about it.  Movies, books and documentaries explaining how they found him and every aspect of the mission.  To have photos or bring back a body (dead or alive) would be creating a pile of complications.  A raid did go down and it created an international incident as well as some interesting almost real time media footprint here and abroad. 

 

If the raid had failed, it'd be stupid to say it worked and have the guy get on TV the next day saying 'Ha ha, you missed, I'm protected by a Higher Power'.   If that happened all the propaganda value would be on there side, not the US's.

 

If he was already dead, even by natural causes, they could have published it years earlier and just said body burned and blasted beyond recognition.   The Taliban never even went with he died of natural causes, I don't think they've gone with the story he's alive and well.  If he was alive, you'd think he'd be a little more active. 

 

Third scenario he's alive and in custody.   Which after getting information would go back to 'A'; He's dead.  In any case doesn't the author's suppose bin Laden was shot up and the pieces tossed out of a helicopter?  

 

For a more in-depth look here's an article that looks into the allegation: http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden    The many problems with Seymour Hersh's Osama bin Laden conspiracy theory

 

Are the two guys that wrote the books dead?

 

So there is absolutely no proof? That's very strange no? I also read that no soldiers attended the "Sea burial" and also that no other criminal in the past has been buried at sea.

 

Well, some people believe that he has been dead for a long time, but his death was used for political advantages.

 

And how did the helecopter crash into the compound? This is the most high-tech helecopter and the most professional pilots.

Edited October 16, 2015 by MooNiNite

[thelerner]

Are the two guys that wrote the books dead?

Matt Bissonette who wrote No Easy Day seems to be still with us.  That took 20 seconds.

 

Landing in a small compound at night at the highest possible speeds might be problematic even for high-tech copters and pilots.  In covert military operations snafu tends to be the norm.  Involving 2 helicopters means more men and extremely expensive equipment involved, losing one makes the mission look less professional then saying it went off without a hitch.  Why put in an element that makes you look bad?  So much easier to say We blew him to bits, just like we did a half dozen number 2's.   There's no benefit, only future problems creating a complex story. 

 

Under your scenario how many Seal members, there trusted friends, wives, support teams including tech and superiors have to be murdered after the event?  Are you supposing hundreds or just a few dozen? 

 

I've actually been impressed by the honesty of the military forces.  I remember a Republican pundit on TV just after the Iraqi invasion saying 'Weapons of mass destruction, we'll find them.  Whether they are there or not.  We'll find them.'  But we didn't.

 

The military and the politicians were willing to look like dupes when it'd be relatively simple and cheap to dig a hole or two, drop in a couple barrels of chemicals, gas and explosives and bring in the reporters.   Woulda been easy peasy and stopped them from looking like duplicitous mass murderers.  But they didn't.  They played it honest, didn't find'em, didn't plant'em and that the way history went down.  

 

 

 

The article mentions cover ups like the famous football player who they said got shot by Al queada but was hit by friendly fire.  That's an easy lie that might have started immediately, for the benefit of the accidental shooter and the victim and was uncovered relatively quickly.  

Edited October 16, 2015 by thelerner

[Owledge]

The media have a pretty good control over information flow inhibition.

 

The alleged raid was a ridiculous charade because of the various shady aspects of it that together paint the picture of the US government having again done what they do so often - fool people using the media to propagate lies and big theater.

 

I know of two claims and due to said difficulties in information flow, I'm not exactly sure which or how much of each is true. Osama Bin Laden likely died either shortly after 9/11, towards the end of 2001 still, or in 2004. Either due to his kidney-related health problems that required frequent dialysis, or he was assassinated.

 

2004 was the last time an alleged video message from him was released, and the man in the video looked like someone very much not like Osama who tried to look like him and failed. After this was pointed out aplenty, after this video, only audio messages followed, and then eventually nothing at all.

 

I think it is likely that he and the mystery of his uncannily elusive person (BTW not the only created myth of something uncannily elusive - I can name the two other examples of cold war Soviet super weapons and HIV) was kept alive as a useful enemy in order to further drive the war/imperialism efforts. And to bring these factors together with the raid thing again: Look at the timing: They finally killed off their favorite villain just in time to give Obama that much-needed second-term presidential popularity boost to keep the Republicans at bay.

It is all a huge pile of...

OBama

OSama

 

I have long ago stopped falling for this ridiculous theater. They're bad scam artists and they don't need to be smarter because it works.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Owledge

[MooNiNite]

The argument that TheLearner discusses how if Osama was alive he could use it to his advantage is a good point.

 

This is kinda interesting though, they seem to disagree on who actually shot Osama. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/who-shot-bin-laden-tale-two-seals-n241241

Edited November 7, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Brian]

I'm just curious -- same friend who told you the Earth is flat?

[thelerner]

From the article you mention, it seems like 3 people actually shot at him, so from individual points of view, its not so clear cut. 

[Owledge]

The argument that TheLearner discusses how if Osama was alive he could use it to his advantage is a good point.

 

This is kinda interesting though, they seem to disagree on who actually shot Osama. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/who-shot-bin-laden-tale-two-seals-n241241

There are several possible angles on this and all of them involve skepticism. The most extreme I cannot exclude as at least a faint possibility is that all this is misdirection theater for affirming the official story that it actually happened. Directing attention away from the core questions and towards petty details is what the corporupt media loves to do.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Owledge

[MooNiNite]

I'm just curious -- same friend who told you the Earth is flat?

Stop trolling. Do your own research

Edited November 7, 2015 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

From the article you mention, it seems like 3 people actually shot at him, so from individual points of view, its not so clear cut. 

 

well it also points out that people ran up the stairs in order so it wouldnt make sense for 3 different peopl to shoot him at the same time

[ralis]

well it also points out that people ran up the stairs in order so it wouldnt make sense for 3 different peopl to shoot him at the same time

 

Your narrative makes no sense whatsoever. In order does not prevent three different operatives from firing weapons at the same time. Obviously, you know nothing about the military except what you see in John Wayne movies.

 

Have you served in the armed forces, been under fire and feared for your life? If you have, then you may have an understanding of a dangerous situation.

Edited November 7, 2015 by ralis

[MooNiNite]

Your narrative makes no sense whatsoever. In order does not prevent three different operatives from firing weapons at the same time. Obviously, you know nothing about the military except what you see in John Wayne movies.

 

Have you served in the armed forces, been under fire and feared for your life? If you have, then you may have an understanding of a dangerous situation.

 

There is no need to insult the person commenting. You can just state the facts. 

Here is a better way to say it.

 

"People going up the stairs in order does not prevent three different operatives from firing weapons at the same time."

Edited November 7, 2015 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

"Neither man is the SEAL who was first up the stairs at bin Laden's Pakistan compound and fired the first shot at Osama. But their dueling narratives are a sign of the backbiting and dysfunction that has roiled a once tight-knit band of warriors as former members violate their code of secrecy in search of the spotlight."

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/who-shot-bin-laden-tale-two-seals-n241241

 

Paragraph #3

[ralis]

There is no need to insult the person commenting. You can just state the facts. 

Here is a better way to say it.

 

"People going up the stairs in order does not prevent three different operatives from firing weapons at the same time."

 

I don't need a lesson in syntax. My statement stands as is.

[MooNiNite]

I don't need a lesson in syntax. My statement stands as is.

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

[ralis]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

 

I know what an ad-hominem is. However, I was critiquing the flawed statement you made. There is a difference.

[Nungali]

I'm just curious -- same friend who told you the Earth is flat?

 

 

I bet it was .  

[Nungali]

Stay tune for next episode of     ........

 

 

 

 

[Jetsun]

The killing doesn't make sense to me, they say they didn't release pics or anything out of respect, but why the hell would they suddenly start caring about respect about their number one enemy after they have dropped thousands of bombs on Muslim countries .

 

Then they release a book list of all the books which were supposedly found in his residence, which reads like a completely made up list of what a person with a very poor imagination would imagine a terrorist would read.

 

I'm not even a conspiracy theorist at all, but I dont believe it.

[MooNiNite]

Anyone think the USA had a hand in this?

 

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/11/16/breaking-putin-reveals-4o-countries-that-are-funding-isis-at-the-g20-summit/

[Owledge]

Anyone think the USA had a hand in this?

 

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/11/16/breaking-putin-reveals-4o-countries-that-are-funding-isis-at-the-g20-summit/

The USA has a hand in almost everything touching their agenda. And since their agenda is world domination, everything touches their agenda on some level.

 

This is why all this latest Paris solidarity hype is pissing me off. I've seen it before, several times, and people still ally with those who terrorize them. I can't even empathize with such events anymore, because the endless cycle of foolishness and convenient ignorance is tiring me.

French flag spammed all over the internet, but you never see the flag of an African country in that way. Which has all-too-obvious implications of this being nationalist war drums of the self-perceived master race, which elevates itself so much that pretend-caring for African people is considered by themselves as proof of their nobility. (After all, helping a lowly negro, now that's really not something anyone would do, right?)

There's still so much shit deeply rooted in the self-identity of nations.

[MooNiNite]

People call the bombings in France "random acts of terror."

 

[Guest Harley]

There is a conspiracy theory about almost everything, including that no one was killed at Sandyhook. Also that Courtney Love Kurt Cobain. Obviously there are real conspiracies but there are way more conspiracy theories and there are real conspiracies. Problem is it is hard to disprove a conspiracy theory if someone really believes it, because there are usually at least a couple of random loose ends that don't add up completely.