Theosophy

[Nungali]

Of course, about Atlantis, we will have to talk more, but that should be reserved for a certain other thread, which my new job as a mod somewhat keeps me from pursuing further. However, we're not done yet.

 

 

 

[9th]

Well, I was only posting that as a Public Service Announcement for anyone who isnt already enslaved by this particular belief system.  Im not looking to "debate" about Blavatsky.  Please, by all means - feel free to blindly follow whatever you wish.

[Michael Sternbach]

 

We know how this always ends...

 

[Bodhicitta]

Blavatsky wrote much in only 15 years or so; here is most of what she put pen to paper:

 

http://www.universaltheosophy.com/writings-hpb/

[growant]

If memory serves in the book Death and the Magician it is reported that Houdini exposed Blavatsky as a fraud, catching her in the act of fakery during a seance.

[Bodhicitta]

If memory serves in the book Death and the Magician it is reported that Houdini exposed Blavatsky as a fraud, catching her in the act of fakery during a seance.

 

Houdini began exposing fake mediums after the death of his mother in 1913.  Blavatsky died in 1891, so your memory is poor. 

[Nungali]

As much as I have been critical, I dont feel any fakery or busted 'magic tricks' detracts from the good stuff she did write.  I dont know one of 'that mob' * that didnt somehow get busted or exposed or had some silly belief going .

 

* meaning, the ones that seemed to be out there , travelling, 'advertising' (themselves)  ,  at the 'forefront' ... the lesser 

armchair explorers, the 'secondary writers', acolytes, etc. -   less so. 

 

A part of the magician is the trickster and illusionist ,  they often have ways of drawing attention to themselves 

 

 

 

Rosaleen Norton - the 'Witch of Kings X  '   ( Sydney) and artist

 

 

[Bodhicitta]

For an unsensational, even boring look at present-day theosophists, here are videos of the Adyar TS convention going on for a few more days of January 2016:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG1SpKaIIjNqk39aC1A6hjA

 

 

Here is the program:

 

http://www.ts-adyar.org/sites/default/files/pdf/Events/Convention%20Programme%202015.pdf

Edited January 2, 2016 by Bodhicitta

[Jadespear]

Theosophy was all well and good until they fell into the swoop that all philosophical sects and religions do.  They tried to spread " the truth".   No one cares Blavatsky.  Because even though all this esoteric philosophy is so fun to think about and to know, it has no practical significance of being able to be used in our lives.  

 

"Truth is a pathless land." - Krishnamurti.  

 

The only purpose of any knowledge is to be used for the betterment of mankind.  Theosophy fell to it's own ego...

 

" spiritual " knowledge that is talked about here on this website, is the way the universe behaves... even the knowledge of all knowledge is dead unless it is used for something, something good that creates, organizes, or restores harmony to life.  And there does not need to be anyone espousing it to the masses.

[Nungali]

" esoteric philosophy is so fun to think about and to know, it has no practical significance of being able to be used in our lives.  "

 

 

 

Maybe that 'our' should have been a  ' my '  ? 

 

I apply mine daily ... all the time.  It has reaped great benefits , both , internally and externally . 

 

If no one had 'espoused'  it  ,  it would not exist .     Maybe your lack of results / significance to your life is because you did not espouse it ? 

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/espoused

[Bodhicitta]

This Voice of Theosophy site with many theosophical texts was down for a time, now it is back up.  

 

And just as quickly went down.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Bodhicitta

[Bodhicitta]

The power to know does not come from book-study nor from mere philosophy, but mostly from the actual practice of altruism in deed, word, and thought; for that practice purifies the covers of the soul and permits that light to shine down into the brain-mind. As the brain-mind is the receiver in the waking state, it has to be purified from sense-perception, and the truest way to do this is by combining philosophy with the highest outward and inward virtue.

HP Blavatsky in her Collected Writings, vol. 9:400G

[Nungali]

Actual practice ?  

 

Seems something Blavatski was short of issuing advice about .    And that led to many members leaving and seeking it elsewhere.  They tried to remedy it later ... but it  didnt take off and collapsed. 

 

I think they tried to fill the void there later by introducing the Liberal Catholic Church and 'Co-masonry'  as a means of offering some type of practical work, ceremony and ritual .  I have a friend who is a 3rd generation Theosophist, she was taken to Liberal Catholic Church every week . 

 

They were pretty big here at one time . They had a 'commune manor ' ; 

 

" ... over thirty rooms, most of which were lined with beaten copper. It became known locally as Bakewell's Folly.^[2] In 1922, the Theosophical Society rented The Manor for a community of some fifty people, headed by Charles Leadbeater, a claimed clairvoyant, and a major figure in the Society. The Manor became an important centre for the Society and was regarded as a great "occult forcing-house".^[3]

The English writer Mary Lutyens stayed at The Manor in the 1920s and described it as "a huge and hideous villa".^[4] The young Indian Jiddu Krishnamurti, who was presented as the new "World Teacher", stayed in nearby David Street with his brother Nitya while Lutyens—his eventual biographer—stayed at The Manor.^[5]

The Theosophical Society bought the house in 1925, holding it under a trust deed. In 1926 they started the radio station 2GB; the initials stood for Giordano Bruno, a saint. The station operated from The Manor for a few years.^[6] In 1951, they set up The Manor Foundation Ltd to own and run the house. The Society still uses The Manor as of 2013."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manor,_Mosman

 

 

Star Amphitheatre , built for the reception of the 'New World Teacher'   - he would sail through Sydney heads ( in background) and take his place on the podium.  Unfortunately some newspaper put it out that he would walk over the water to the podium. Many turned out to watch ' the miracle' ... but were disappointed . 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Amphitheatre

 

Built by 'The Order of the Star '   ... now Theosophists were not only looking for practical magic to practice, a system of initiation, a religious expression (all previously lacking ... and the drop in numbers reflecting the need) .. now they claiming  a specific religious and overall revelation !   The coming of the 'new world teacher' ! 

 

Fortunately , the 'new world teacher'  himself  donged that one with  hammer !  ;

 

" Krishnamurti dissolved the Order during the annual Star Camp at Ommen, the Netherlands, on 3 August 1929.^[63] He stated that he had made his decision after "careful consideration" during the previous two years, and that:

I maintain that truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or coerce people along a particular path. ... This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing: to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories and new philosophies. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti#Break_with_the_past

 

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Nungali

[Bodhicitta]

HPB suggested all sorts of practical altruism, but altruism requires one to care more for others (or at least as much) than self.  So it is not popular with we self-cherishing folk.  So all sorts of flapdoodle were devised to entertain us and give the illusion of 'spirituality'.

[Nungali]

No ...  what I mean is she did mention stuff  ( like  ;   be altruistic)  ... but Theosophists themselves wanted to know the practical applications of much of their teachings ... that were missing . 

 

This has nothing to do with trying to pass off 'methods of practical application' and exercises and practice as some type of selfish flapdoodle  that is entertainment  and 'illusory spirituality' . 

 

That comment sounds like a defensive position  for a system that had a lot lacking .    The western traditions, Buddhism  and Vedanta  (all sources for the 'Theosophical blend' ) offer such practicalities, ritual and meditations .... to dismiss them with a wave of the Theosophical hand doesnt really cut it . 

[Bodhicitta]

Blavatsky was not founding a religion at all.  She encouraged theosophists to stay with the spiritual paths they knew and just bring to bear whatever leavening influence they gained from the teachings of herself and her gurus.  

 

Therefore, all the meditations, rituals etc. were already there, just use them for the benefit of all beings in a non-sectarian, theosophical manner.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Bodhicitta

[Nungali]

Blavatsky was not founding a religion at all.  She encouraged theosophists to stay with the spiritual paths they knew and just bring to bear whatever leavening influence they gained from the teachings of herself and her gurus.  

 

Therefore, all the meditations, rituals etc. were already there, just use them for the benefit of all beings in a non-sectarian, theosophical manner.

 

so then they are not  " all sorts of flapdoodle were devised to entertain us and give the illusion of 'spirituality'.  "   ?  

 

Or do you mean the one's established before Theosophy  were OK but not after it ?    

 

I would contend that theosophical men and  women wanted access to a system of  initiation and liturgy  ....  and that the G C C  and the Co-masons were exactly what you recommend ;   ...   using them ( ritual and meditations ) in a theosophical manner . 

 

That is the only valid definition of 'in a theosophical manner' that I can come up with .  otherwise I have no idea what 'in a theosophical manner ' means ?     

 

You do realise the other systems also have a code of ethics, responsibility and  consideration for others .... including 'practical altruism'  ?  

 

But you consider it is ' flapdoodle  that is entertainment  and 'illusory spirituality' .  "  ?   

[Bodhicitta]

Guess I will have to 'sigh' write some more.  

 

'Stay with' means if you are a Xtian or Buddhist or Jew etc. you make use of whatever that path provides in the way of practices & service.  The main factor theosophy contributes is the theosophical = non-sectartian, universal brotherhood attitude.

 

But many people wanted something special and different, so they would drop their native religion and try to make theosophy into a new one.  That would require some new flapdoodle unique to their wrong-headed notion of Theosophy.

 

Kapish?

[Nungali]

  " Wrong headed notion  "  ...    ? !  

 

 

 

W"ell then  < sigh >  ....   I guess I will go back to what I originally was going to detail , the movement started to implement this at the beginning  of the establishment of the TS when this problem arose .    It was supposedly shut down but still exists. 

 

I guess I will have to ask you why you 'Theosophically deny' such a movement in Theosophy, yet the Theosophical movement itself seems to support it .  

 

In other words  I am asking you about  the ES of the TS .    Is not this exactly what I was describing ?   Is the ES flapdoodle ? 

 

 

 

 

" In the early 1880s, two disgruntled employees at the international headquarters of the TS in India accused HPB of faking the phenomena and forging the com­munications coming from the Masters. Richard Hodg­son, a young and inexperienced member of the newly formed Society for Psychical Research (SPR) in Britain, went to India to investigate the charges. In a report published in 1885, he pronounced her a fraud. This, of course, became worldwide news, making Hodgson and the SPR famous.

 

As was shown in later studies, Hodgson systemati­cally disregarded the evidence in favor of HPB. In 1986, over a hundred years later, Vernon Harrison, a long­standing member of the SPR and an expert on forgery, published a study of the Hodgson report in the SPR Journal. Harrison concluded that HPB was unjustly condemned. (For an online version of Harrison's study,

 

visit www.theosociety.org/pasadena/hpb-spr/hpbspr-h.htm.)

 

Nevertheless, when it first appeared, the Hodgson report was almost a deathblow to the TS, and even HPB feared that this would destroy it.

 

In an attempt to save the Society, Olcott proposed to redi­rect its activity and publications, dropping all mention of phenomena, the occult, and the Masters, to work on the less controversial field of comparative religion, phi­losophy, and science.

 

One of the Masters, Koot Hoomi, said that although this move was well-calculated to save the physical integrity of the Society, it would kill its soul.

 

The Society has liberated itself from our grasp and influ­ence and we have let it go—we make no unwilling slaves. He [Olcott] says he has saved it? He saved its body, but he allowed through sheer fear, to its soul to escape, and it is now a soulless corpse, a machine run so far well enough, but which will fall to pieces when he is gone. Out of the three objects the second alone is attended to, but it is no longer either a brotherhood, nor a body over the face of which broods the Spirit from beyond the Great Range. (Jinarajadasa, 125-26)

 

" By denying its "occult" dimension the TS had become an exoteric organization with lofty aims, but empty of its occult life, and the influence of the Masters was seriously restricted. But even if the TS could suc­cessfully limit itself to the exoteric field, it would still be doomed to fail. Why? Probably because the foundation stones of the TS were not laid with the exoteric work in view. No organization that deals with subjects such as the Lemurian and Atlantean civilizations, psychic phenomena, unseen Masters and their disciples, and occult initiations is fit to be a "respectable" member of the academic world.

 

 

Mme. Blavatsky, aware of this situation, was seeking a way of retaining the link between the TS and its occult source of inspiration. The formation of the ES afforded this opportunity, as the existence of the Masters was naturally and openly accepted by those members eager to lead a spiritual life based on Theosophical teachings. "

 

 

more at ;     https://www.theosophical.org/publications/quest-magazine?id=2951

Edited February 1, 2016 by Nungali

[Bodhicitta]

Nungali,

 

Interesting theory you have.

According to HPB's own explanation the founding of the ES (see CW 12) had to do with the TS being a failure in its main purpose to form a nucleus of Universal Brotherhood.  The ES group was supposed to be full of brotherliness and no bickering, based on their altruistic vows to each ones Higher Self, not HPB, nor any Master.  This attitude was supposed to permeate the TS and thus slowly redeem it.  Worship of the Masters was not part of the ES, but dedication to working for Universal Brotherhood.

 

Of course she was dead a little more than three years later and the TS never regained even a formal unity, but split into several branches.

[Nungali]

Nungali,

 

Interesting theory you have.

 

Theory ?    The above is a quote, not mine, The bit that is mine is mostly a bunch of questions you didnt answer. 

[Bodhicitta]

Not able to follow your non sequitur-like posts, sorry.

[Nungali]

Oh !   Its me is it  ?  

 

Okay ,   I will retire then and take my  question marks and quotation marks with me  .... since I am so quantumly-disjointed ,  time travelling, all over the place .  

 

 

[Bodhicitta]

William Q Judge on "Practical Theosophy"

 

 

The ethics of life propounded by Jesus are not different from those found in theosophy, but the latter holds in its doctrines a compelling power which is absent from Christianity and from those systems which require a man to be good for virtue's sake alone. It is not easy to practice virtue for the simple reason that we ought to do so, since the desire for reward is inherent in humanity, and is a reflection of the evolutionary law which draws the universe ever upward to higher points of development. A man reads the command of Jesus to turn the other cheek to the smiter, to resist not evil, to forgive without stint, and to take no thought for the morrow, and then - pauses. His next thought is that such a canon is wholly utopian, and would if followed subvert society. In this he is sustained by eminent authority as well as by example, for a great Bishop has declared that no state can exist under such a system.

Theosophic doctrine, however, on either the selfish or spiritual line of life, convinces that the moral law must be obeyed. If we regard only the selfish side, we find when people are convinced that evil done in this life will be met with sure punishment in another reincarnation, they hesitate to continue the old careless life when they lived for themselves alone.

Hence practical theosophy must enter into every detail of life in our dealings with others and our discipline of ourselves. It reminds us that we should be more critical of ourselves than of others, that we must help all men if we are to be helped ourselves. And herein the theosophist may escape the accusation of selfishness, for if in desiring to lay up for a future incarnation a store of help from others by giving assistance now himself, he does so in order that he may then be in a still better position to help humanity, there is no selfishness. It is the same as if a man were to desire to acquire this world's goods in order to help those dependent on him, and surely this is not selfish.

The practical theosophist adds to his charitable deeds upon the material plane the still greater charity of giving to his fellow men a system of thought and life which explains their doubts while it furnishes a logical reason for the practice of virtue. He extinguishes a hell that never could burn, and the terrors of which soon faded from the mind of the sinners; but he lights the lamp of truth and throws its beams upon the mortal's path so that not only the real danger, the real punishment, can be seen, but also the reward and compensation.

The civilized man cannot be guided by fear or superstition, but reason may take hold of him. Theosophy being not only practicable but also reasonable as well as just, its doctrines are destined to be those of the civilized man. They will gradually drive out the time-worn shibboleths of the theologian and the scientist, giving the people of coming centuries a wisdom-religion deeply-based and all-embracing.

Were theosophical practice universal, we should not see the unjust Judge plotting beforehand with the officials of a railroad company about the decision he should render, nor the venal public officer engaged with the Judge and the officials in arranging the virtuous protest to be offered in court against the foreordained decree, for both would fear to rouse a cause which in their next life might issue in unjust accusation and punishment. Nor would men save their lives, as now they often do, at another's expense, since in succeeding incarnations that person might be the means of depriving them of life twice over. The rich man who now hoards his wealth or spends it on himself alone would not be thus guilty, seeing that, as compensation in another life, his friends would forsake him and nature seem to withdraw subsistence.

The practical theosophist will do well if he follows the advice of the Masters now many years in print, to spread, explain, and illustrate the laws of Karma and Reincarnation so that they may enter into the lives of the people. Technical occultism and all the allurements of the Astral Light may be left for other times. Men's thoughts must be affected, and this can only be done now by giving them these two great laws. They not only explain many things, but they have also an inherent power due to their truth and their intimate connection with man, to compel attention.

Once heard they are seldom forgotten, and even if rebelled against they have a mysterious power of keeping in the man's mind, until at last, even against his first determination, he is forced to accept them. The appreciation of justice is common to all, and the exact justice of Karma appeals even to the person who is unfortunate enough to be undergoing heavy punishment: even if, ignoring justice, he does good in order to make good Karma, it is well, for he will be reborn under conditions that may favor the coming out of unselfish motive.

"Teach, preach, and practice this good law for the benefit of the world, even as all the Buddhas do."

[Spotless]

Annie Bessant - Leadbeater - Roudolf Steiner - Merril-Wolf

 

Whole lot a great stuff in Theosophy - from theosophy - out of Theosophy.

 

Unfortunately - much of what we see today is reading of the past - not a practice in present.

 

However - for the student - the guidelines given throughout Theosophy are consistently excellent.

 

Outside of practice related guidelines - who really cares about far out other worlds? This is programming and relatively unverifiable.

And when it becomes verifiable - it is of little or no interest and one can walk the streets on ones own at that point - far better than words.

 

In the nitty gritty stuff - Theosophical works and those who "graduated" from their ranks have been of the utmost importance in my studies.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Spotless