Is the earth round/spherical?

[Brian]

Don't mistake, however, the dynamic nature of "current understanding" to mean that every idea, opinion or concept is equally valid or even sensible.

[Nungali]

You sure are rude. You must know it all huh?

 

It is a no fly zone. who knows why. The north pole weather isnt even that bad.  Could be just inconvenient. 

 

 

Could be ...  

 

.. could be flapjacks too ... you gotta watch out for them .

 

Here is an idea ... why dont you look up what the reason actually is ... instead of relying on all your 'could be s '  ? 

[Nungali]

I said north or south pole. Meaning I could choose. Of course you choose the south pole for me, and then filled your comment with tons of rude question marks, when the north pole isn't nearly as bad of weather. 

 

http://polardiscovery.whoi.edu/poles/weather.html

 

 

Also, lets just look at the actual forcast in the south pole..

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/weather/antarctica/south-pole

 

Visibility 7-10 miles

Wind speed: 10mph

 

 

Errr what ???

 

You did say north or south pole ... I chose south  ...   I didnt realise north or south pole  excluded the south pole .

 

Silly me !  I guess that is a one up for the flat earthers  

[Brian]

Could be ...

 

.. could be flapjacks too ... you gotta watch out for them .

 

Here is an idea ... why dont you look up what the reason actually is ... instead of relying on all your 'could be s ' ?

Yeah, I tried that...

[Nungali]

Actually, anyone can travel to Antarctica and hang out. However, the research stations are off limits and offer no assistance if one encounters problems.

 

 

 

 

True ... we do all we can to stop them from this end ;

 

A while back a group of women here where going to a south pole expedition .... no, they were not experienced , but they had trained pulling a harness with old car tyres    attached up and down a football field  .   And a lot of hootin about how women can do anything .

 

It finally got 'cancelled'.    

 

 

Besides .... you silly duffers !    :

 

http://www.wanderlust.co.uk/magazine/articles/interviews/how-eight-ordinary-women-conquered-the-south-pole?page=all

[MooNiNite]

Yeah, I tried that...

 

Well i dont trust Nasa or the government. You can say oh well that's stupid. And I would just tell you that your free to believe what you want. 

[Nungali]

Interesting video on a compilation of ancient maps of the World. 

 

 

Scientists discover ocean beneath our feet.  

 

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/184564-scientists-discover-an-ocean-400-miles-beneath-our-feet-that-could-fill-our-oceans-three-times-over

 

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2014/06/new-evidence-for-oceans-of-water-deep-in-the-earth.html

 

 

Ha !  both of those links show a spherical solid earth !  

[MooNiNite]

Ha !  both of those links show a spherical solid earth !  

 

It's very possible that the earth is a sphere...

[Nungali]

Jesus.

 

 

No, even he cant help you now . 

 

 

[MooNiNite]

No, even he cant help you now . 

 

You keep telling people that they need help from you. Like your some threat out to catch them or something.

 

 

I said "jesus" because the manner in which to talk to people is extremely rude 

[Nungali]

Im not disagreeing with you. I said "thank you" for your comment. 

 

As to the certainty behind the paper published by Northwestern university, i'm not sure. Its hard to actually tell what is 400 miles beneath our feet. 

 

The link with the ancient maps of earth is really the major aspect of my comment. 

 

[Brian]

Well i dont trust Nasa or the government. You can say oh well that's stupid. And I would just tell you that your free to believe what you want.

Nope, that's not stupid at all.

 

So, do you then return to first principles?

 

For instance, you could do some very simple physical experiments involving math no more complicated than geometry to confirm that gravity is a centripetal force and use logic to determine the Earth is roughly spherical.

 

Or you could drive a couple stakes in the ground and measure shadows. Again, a little geometry reveals the Earth is spherical.

 

Or you could go to the beach and watch ships sail away into the distance. No math needed.

 

Or you could take a plane ride and look out the window.

 

There are more ways but you get the idea. Point being, why not find out for yourself?

 

That's what I did.

[MooNiNite]

Nope, that's not stupid at all.

 

So, do you then return to first principles?

 

For instance, you could do some very simple physical experiments involving math no more complicated than geometry to confirm that gravity is a centripetal force and use logic to determine the Earth is roughly spherical.

 

Or you could drive a couple stakes in the ground and measure shadows. Again, a little geometry reveals the Earth is spherical.

 

Or you could go to the beach and watch ships sail away into the distance. No math needed.

 

Or you could take a plane ride and look out the window.

 

There are more ways but you get the idea. Point being, why not find out for yourself?

 

That's what I did.

 

While i'm open to the idea of a Flat Earth and I'm certainly not going to push people away from discussing their ideas surrounding it, i am inclined to believe the earth is spherical. 

[Brian]

 

While i'm open to the idea of a Flat Earth and I'm certainly not going to push people away from discussing their ideas surrounding it, i am inclined to believe the earth is spherical.

But you won't bother to find out? If you put forth a fraction of the energy you've expended in this thread on actually finding out for yourself, you would have learned already that the Flat Earth theory holds as much water as Aristotle's notion that grasshoppers come from dew.

[ralis]

While i'm open to the idea of a Flat Earth and I'm certainly not going to push people away from discussing their ideas surrounding it, i am inclined to believe the earth is spherical. 

 

 

Flat earth? What basis do you have to present as evidence so that anyone can replicate your findings?

[Nungali]

Ack...  didn't you read my "Not doing any homework to prove anything to anybody" declaration of independence from being given assignments by whoever is not my Teacher?..  Do take a look -- it's in WeiWuWei.

 

Luckily, this one is a no-brainer -- take a look here: http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/courses/astro201/earth_precess.htm

 

complete with the picture of the spinning-top Earth which alas refused to post in my original post on the subject.

 

Also, even though I'm not under oath when I post at a banter forum, I normally tell no lies --

also, even though I am a practicing taoist with many connections in the non-3D realms, I don't maintain any imaginary friends in the human realm

and never gave you any reasonable grounds to suspect me of either.  I told you plainly that I got this info from a friend who is an astrophysicist.  He specializes in celestial dynamics and relativity, and is currently working as a research scientist for the US Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C..  I got the spinning top from him in response to a private inquiry completely unrelated to this-here thread, but thought it's a nice bit to share.  (Who'd have guessed...)  The primary (and only) reason for the inquiry was that I needed something astronomically correct for a particular episode of my sci-fi novel under construction, and wanted to consult him on that so whatever it turns into in the literary form has some tangible scientific backing should anyone want to question it. 

 

As an aside, that's what I always do if I'm not a specialist in the subject under investigation -- I consult specialists.  Both kinds, incidentally, the orthodox and the dissenting/unorthodox/alternative, to know both sides of the story before arriving at my own agree/disagree conclusions -- not just one as our esteemed detractors like to do. 

 

Oh, and what I gave you, that spinning thingie, that's orthodox science.  Just a field you are not familiar with.  Can you live with that, or d'you reckon I owe you something else?..   

 

 

Okay ... I have recovered from looking at that linked pic  ... seriously, thanks ...    that was a great unexpected hearty actual LOL. 

 

 

You know, I actually understand the dynamics of precession. That is not what I am harassing you on ... its the way you took the top metaphor as literal. 

 

2 things .... without extending the earths axis in a line beyond the earth, this idea is hard to explain to a lot of people , especially the 'precessional circles '  hence  ;

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

The idea of a top is to help explain the movement  .     Now, if you are saying the earth actually morphs from a spherical shape to this shape  :

 

 

 

.... you are playing a game with me  .... hmmmmm  ?  

 

Or, for others getting confused look at this page ;

 

 https://www.google.com.au/search?q=precession+of+the+equinoxes&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIiZDAqu3wyAIVwq-mCh2TpQn7#imgrc=_

 

... a variety of diagrams , not so simple  as the top pic . 

 

 

here is a better idea using a variant metaphor / analogy / visualisation  

 

 

Imagine the top  like this : 

 

 

 

lay out a celestial map under it, as the top slows and it starts to 'wobble' the rim lowers and scraps the surface, that point of scraping rotates around the 'equator' of the top, even though the top is spinning faster. That point of contact is like the Equinoctal Point moving against the background of stars / constellations (from a specific time and location on earth ) . 

 

This creates the now near 30 deg. discrepancy between the zodiac signs and the constellations. 

 

 

... and a top shape isnt flat  

 

you guys just jump and jiggle inconsistently all over the place to try and make a point.

 

Its rather entertaining . 

 

Unless it is  a leg pull .... I am still wondering  ?  

[Nungali]

 But if you think that the scientific establishment regarding human life on earth is accurate i would disagree. 

 

Its hard to tell what this means.  Maybe its the wording ?

[Nungali]

They teach Human civilization goes back to 4,000 bc

 

 

But you didnt say that did you ?

 

Can you see my problem here ?

 

Its like what taomeow said. I am not disputing the terrestrial dynamics that cause the precession of the equinoxes at all . I was questioning how she said the earth would morph into a top shape . 

[MooNiNite]

But you didnt say that did you ?

 

Can you see my problem here ?

 

Its like what taomeow said. I am not disputing the terrestrial dynamics that cause the precession of the equinoxes at all . I was questioning how she said the earth would morph into a top shape . 

 

I have no idea how long humans have been around. Neither does science. 

 

They have however dated human civilization incorrectly, and that is a big deal. 

[ralis]

I have no idea how long humans have been around. Neither does science. 

 

They have however dated human civilization incorrectly, and that is a big deal. 

 

What evidence can you present regarding incorrect dating?

[Nungali]

Here you go the oldest civilizations according to the mainstream understanding.

 

http://www.ancienthistorylists.com/ancient-civilizations/10-oldest-ancient-civilizations-ever-existed/

 

But do not, at various times, we see revision ?

 

These are only the oldest civilizations we know of  so far. 

 

Its like we have certain evidence to reasonable postulate many things about ancient Egypt ... from what we know so far . But maybe 80% is 'undug'  ( and much will  remains so ).   But speculations without reasonable evidence , although fun, are just that. 

 

Surely you and TM by now have read some of my other posts ? I aint no real straight laced materialist 'sheeple' ya know.  I have rad views on theology , philosophy, magic, anthropology, demonology .....    

 

But it is all tempered by some research ... and in some cases Uni study and living it in the field.  Fuck man, I have even lived out with the oldest culture on Earth and have adoted their spirituality .

 

If you want my view on what I believe is going on .... its that we are all in a dream that is being ' dreamed up ' by a giant snake lying asleep underground in an underground 'ocean' .    

 

 

 

Yep!  That's what I believe .   (You with me here Cuz ? ) 

[MooNiNite]

What evidence can you present regarding incorrect dating?

 

Well the ancient Sumerians were for a while considered the earliest civilization at around 4500BC.

 

Now we have Gobekli Tepe at around 10,600BC. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Nungali]

A spinning celestial body behaves exactly like a gyroscope or spinning top -- precession, nutation, the whole nine yards. The physics are identical.

 

I think the confusion on this particular point is really related to the idea of what a spinning top "looks like." There is no special shape for a top. The mechanics involved, however, are very well understood and very Newtonian.

 

Not will turn into a  gyroscope . 

 

Is this misunderstanding really happening ?  

 

No Nungali .... big snake Ungud is having a fun time dreaming this one up . 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

What's funny to me is that you completely disregard the facts. 

 

and you completely miss the point  .  

 

( I love this guy !   ) 

[Nungali]

Yeah, I tried that...

 

What ... flapjacks ... they're flat . 

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlq2Vwc9fDw