Is the earth round/spherical?

[MooNiNite]

and you completely miss the point  .  

 

( I love this guy !   ) 

 

insulting people over the internet is really awesome. ..

[Nungali]

It's very possible that the earth is a sphere...

 

 

It would explain the ship 'sinking' below the horizon thingo   

[Nungali]

You keep telling people that they need help from you.

 

Do I ?  ... I do .... where .... what help    .... huh  ?  

 

Like your some threat out to catch them or something.

 

What ?  I dont plan on telling anyone they need my help .  And I am obviously not catching you as you fall. 

 

Or,  do you mean;    I am like some person that threatens you  ....   and I am out to 'catch you out'  ?

 

The first one would depend on your perception  .... the 2nd ,  ... sure ! 

 

Or is it another typo ?  

 

I said "jesus" because the manner in which to talk to people is extremely rude 

 

 

Is it ?    Struth !  

 

(Aussie slang -  'it's the truth' ......   that was a pun )  

[Nungali]

I have no idea how long humans have been around. Neither does science. 

 

I am confident that science has discovered evidence to date that supports their theories to date.

 

I like to believe what Abdul-baha taught about the beginning of 'man', that even as a microbe, the 'man microbe' was different from the others.

 

This is also an idea postulated by some that worked with Darwin  ( we also have variations with Broomhall and Wallace ) , it also has similarities in Vedanta and seems to come from Plato, via Hermetics via 'Avicenna  to Abdul-Baha. 

 

 

They have however dated human civilization incorrectly, and that is a big deal. 

 

Its only a big deal if you believe it is it, end of story , but it isnt , it is what we have found so far .    If it was considered the eend of the story ... why keep all this digging and investigation going on. 

 

Theories change develop, get tested by new evidence all the time , thats how we progress  . 

 

Its how the healthy psyche should progress too  ; 

 

principle 3  (out of the  four) - check the internal map ;  check what your belief paradigm on the inside is against the template of objective views and new discoveries  .

[Nungali]

insulting people over the internet is really awesome. ..

 

But I am not insulting you . you did miss the point and I am 'loving this guy'

 

Here is another misunderstanding to be cleared up .

 

Who is saying a civilisation built  Gobekli Tepe ?

 

I have read that some think this pushes the known date of civilisation back as hunter gatherers  could not be organised enough to build it.

 

Others say that Gobekli Tepe must change our ideas about what civilisation is.  Some others say maybe it could have been built by people that did not have a civilisation. 

 

But what is a 'civilisation'

 

Did you ever see my 'What's up at Okney' thread ?    

 

How on earth did those guys ever build all that ... and associated sites , pre-Stonehenge  ( which may have been part of the complex ) with no civilisation ?

 

Well, maybe they did somehow and more research will reveal how.

 

Or maybe more research will discover they did have 'civilisation as we know it' . 

 

I personally think it is all quiet liberal and developing and is interesting to follow the developments ... with real sites and real mysteries to ponder . 

 

Do have a read of that thread , it will show you things that out of the recently old mainstream ideas .... with real pictures  

 

even still got the wardrobes and cupboards in it    

 

 

 

 

 

more ?   : 

 

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=ancient+ruins+of+orkney&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIx5iWj4fxyAIVSu9jCh2mswU_

Edited November 2, 2015 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

Unless it is  a leg pull .... I am still wondering  ?  

 

It is taoism 101.  Sorry if it's being wasted on you, but you weren't my target audience, I know you are not into taoism.  I assert the earth is square.  I assert it is round.  I assert it is flat.  I assert it is a torus.  I assert it is a spinning top.

 

All you have to do is read my posts in sequence without looking for a way to troll them and try to get what I'm getting at.  It isn't even taoism 101.  It is reading comprehension 101.  I know you can do it.  I'm rooting for you -- right into the spiral earth, just as my taiji teacher taught me to root.  We call it peng force.  Good luck.   

Edited November 2, 2015 by Taomeow

[Marblehead]

Yeah, In the military. 

And they allow me to view my house from about 14 different angles/distances.

 

One of the pictures caught me when I was taking a leak in my back yard.

[Marblehead]

You made a statement that humans are 5k years old. That is entirely different than stating human civilization is 5k years old.

True that most of those who are educated is such matters suggest "modern man", that is, civilized man, goes back between 8,000 and 6,000 years.  However, the evolution of man goes back nearly 4,000,000 years.

[MooNiNite]

True that most of those who are educated is such matters suggest "modern man", that is, civilized man, goes back between 8,000 and 6,000 years.  However, the evolution of man goes back nearly 4,000,000 years.

 

How could humans be alive for so long and not be civilized until roughly 10,000 years ago?

[Marblehead]

Well, upon further examination my world is still pretty much round save for the gravitational tugs from the sun and the moon.

[Marblehead]

How could humans be alive for so long and not be civilized until roughly 10,000 years ago?

Look at the world around you.  There are people even today who are not to be considered "modern man" or at all "civilized".

 

It wasn't until man's brain began to increase in size that he was able to start any serious thinking.  Increased size allowed for the potential of increased capabilities.

[Apech]

Gobekli Tepe doesn't really revise the dates of the earliest settled civilisations (Sumeria, Egypt, Indus Valley) as these are agriculture based communities based on river valleys (hence fertile and trade) having towns and cities.  What Gobekli Tepe demonstrates is that humans even when still living as pastoralists had both stone working skills and the organisational skills to undertake major construction works.  And this undermines the idea of the superiority of 'civilisation' in the sense that it was held that to have the ability to do large and complex construction works it was necessary first to have the social structures that came with the settled communities.

 

It also goes against the received wisdom of 'progress'.  As modern humans (according to the standard model) have been around for about 200,000 years, the idea is that we did more or less nothing interesting for most of that time and only in the last few thousand years suddenly became the intelligent, creative being we are supposed to be now.  This way of thinking is to support a distorted idea of evolutionary theory which suggests we were once lowly and dragged our knuckles on the earth until we stood upright and invented the iPad or some such.  Why anyone would cling to this way of thinking is beyond me, since particularly evolutionary theory suggests no such thing. 

 

All ancient cultures suggested the reverse - that we are in a process of decline not progress - that is a decline from our connection to spirit (or Dao) - and our supposed progress is actually compensation for our loss of our innate powers.

[thelerner]

How could humans be alive for so long and not be civilized until roughly 10,000 years ago?

I think 'civilization' often means written records.  From my understanding over the million 150,000-250,000 years homo sapiens have been around we've been a very tribal lot, probably with various levels of kindness and civility according to the tribe.  I assume nicer and kinder then generally imagined but I'm sure it ran the gamut. - Sometimes only the good die young and are never written or suspected by history.  I wouldn't be surprised  if pockets of were more technological then generally assumed, but you don't leave traces, you get forgotten. 

 

 

Back to OPish

 

I like this video, though it doesn't respect in it's comment section, I wonder if it presents a more sophisticated and correct vision of what our solar system is actually doing. 

 

The above is the shorter version of this one, which includes a more galactic view.

Edited November 2, 2015 by thelerner

[Marblehead]

Well, I tried to say "vortex" but the word just wouldn't come out of my mouth.  I guess I'm just not ready for it yet.

 

(But the concept is logically valid.)

[MooNiNite]

Gobekli Tepe doesn't really revise the dates of the earliest settled civilisations (Sumeria, Egypt, Indus Valley) as these are agriculture based communities based on river valleys (hence fertile and trade) having towns and cities.  What Gobekli Tepe demonstrates is that humans even when still living as pastoralists had both stone working skills and the organisational skills to undertake major construction works.  And this undermines the idea of the superiority of 'civilisation' in the sense that it was held that to have the ability to do large and complex construction works it was necessary first to have the social structures that came with the settled communities.

Yes it does. It completely rewrites the history books. Especially the dating of the Sphynx.

 

 

 

 

It also goes against the received wisdom of 'progress'.  As modern humans (according to the standard model) have been around for about 200,000 years, the idea is that we did more or less nothing interesting for most of that time and only in the last few thousand years suddenly became the intelligent, creative being we are supposed to be now.  This way of thinking is to support a distorted idea of evolutionary theory which suggests we were once lowly and dragged our knuckles on the earth until we stood upright and invented the iPad or some such.  Why anyone would cling to this way of thinking is beyond me, since particularly evolutionary theory suggests no such thing. 

 

All ancient cultures suggested the reverse - that we are in a process of decline not progress - that is a decline from our connection to spirit (or Dao) - and our supposed progress is actually compensation for our loss of our innate powers.

 

This is basically exactly what I was trying to ask Marblehead. The stonework of ancient cultures actually gets more sophisticated as we go back in time. Saksaywaman for example. 

 

"Gobekli Tepe consists of large stones, so we have people that were already capable of building these large structures 12,000 years ago." The carving is also outpressed. 

 

The deliberate burying of the site is also very interesting. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by MooNiNite

[MooNiNite]

To say that the people who built the large structures at Gobekli Tepe were not civilized is crazy to me.

 

Simple hunter gatherers couldnt biuld those large structures, there was also tools left behind that they found. And sophisticated out-pressed carvings. 

[Apech]

Yes it does. It completely rewrites the history books. Especially the dating of the Sphynx.

 

....

 

 

 

 

This is basically exactly what I was trying to ask Marblehead. The stonework of ancient cultures actually gets more sophisticated as we go back in time. Saksaywaman for example. 

 

"Gobekli Tepe consists of large stones, so we have people that were already capable of building these large structures 12,000 years ago." The carving is also outpressed. 

 

The deliberate burying of the site is also very interesting. 

 

I agree about the Sphinx - but what I was trying to say is that these skills of large stone working existed among human communities before we lived in settled communities - I think this is the exciting thing.  

 

The deliberate burying of the site is certainly very significant and interesting as it suggests a specific purpose which ended.  And this in turn suggests not only planning over very long periods of time but a level of knowledge which we can only guess at.

[Apech]

To say that the people who built the large structures at Gobekli Tepe were not civilized is crazy to me.

 

Simple hunter gatherers couldnt biuld those large structures, there was also tools left behind that they found. And sophisticated out-pressed carvings. 

 

 

It depends how you define civilized as it usually suggests urban/city dwelling.  Why are hunter gatherers simple in your view?  Only probably because those that still live like that appear undeveloped to us.  But when it was the norm? well it was our natural way of life.

 

There's some interesting recent work around Stonehenge which shows that the area around the henge was in use as sacred land for a long time before the stones were erected.  I think this also indicates the intelligent interaction with our environment going way back - much earlier than people previously thought.

[Apech]

[MooNiNite]

It depends how you define civilized as it usually suggests urban/city dwelling.  Why are hunter gatherers simple in your view?  Only probably because those that still live like that appear undeveloped to us.  But when it was the norm? well it was our natural way of life.

 

There's some interesting recent work around Stonehenge which shows that the area around the henge was in use as sacred land for a long time before the stones were erected.  I think this also indicates the intelligent interaction with our environment going way back - much earlier than people previously thought.

 

True it does depend how one defines civilization. I guess the word civilized to me means that they can write, are capable of agriculture, and can build structures, organized religion I would say is not a requirement, but would occur naturally. I can see how my definition might not be equivalent to the norm. 

 

Hunter gatherers are only simple in my view if they are unaware of agriculture. They are sophisticated in my view if they make the choice.

 

While Joe and Graham make a joke that this site wasn't just magically erected by someone walking out of the forest. I would actually believe that that scenario is actually possible...and that many of the ancient sites were constructed using anti-gravity magic. (yin chi)

[MooNiNite]

I agree about the Sphinx - but what I was trying to say is that these skills of large stone working existed among human communities before we lived in settled communities - I think this is the exciting thing.  

 

How can you know that for sure though? 

[Apech]

How can you know that for sure though? 

 

I don't of course.

[MooNiNite]

I don't of course.

 

I was talking with my friend and he was basically saying that some of the more ancient cities could be under the current cities. 

 

He was also explaining how ISIS who is destroying the ancient ruins actually isn't the only one doing it, and that the other organizations are also doing it, which is interesting to me. 

[Apech]

I was talking with my friend and he was basically saying that some of the more ancient cities could be under the current cities. 

 

He was also explaining how ISIS who is destroying the ancient ruins actually isn't the only one doing it, and that the other organizations are also doing it, which is interesting to me. 

 

 

How does he know this?

[MooNiNite]

How does he know this?

Cities under cities i think is common. 

 

but for isis...

 

After a quick google search i'd say he probably got information from cites similar to this.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/16/broken-ruins-ruined-societies-it-s-not-just-isis-destroying-history.html

 

But i cant say for sure, sometimes people have to do the digging themselves. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by MooNiNite