Is the earth round/spherical?

[Nungali]

A polar bear ate my penguin.

 

 

[Nungali]

trolls.

 

Ohhh ... I see ....    when    we  post rubbish and crap we are trolls  ....  but  when you  post it  .....     

Edited March 23, 2016 by Nungali

[MooNiNite]

Ohhh ... I see ....    when    we  post rubbish and crap we are trolls  ....  but  when you  post it  .....     

 

its a thread about the shape of the earth. 

[Michael Sternbach]

 

Oh my God! What has happened to Wilfred?!

[Apech]

Oh my God! What has happened to Wilfred?!

 

 

He's toast.

[Marblehead]

He's toast.

Lightly buttered.

[Brian]

Looks burnt...

[Brian]

As an on-topic aside, the idea of a flat Earth would probably need to be linked to a geocentric model of the universe -- which is not entirely implausible, strictly speaking. Just food for thought...

[Daeluin]

As an on-topic aside, the idea of a flat Earth would probably need to be linked to a geocentric model of the universe -- which is not entirely implausible, strictly speaking. Just food for thought...

 

I'm a fan of Tolkien's flat-earth models. 

 

Also, many daoist concepts stem from thinking of earth as still and heaven as moving.

[Nungali]

As an on-topic aside, the idea of a flat Earth would probably need to be linked to a geocentric model of the universe -- which is not entirely implausible, strictly speaking. Just food for thought...

 

Is Mars  and /or  Venus  inside or outside  the 'Moonsphere'  at the moment  ?   

 

(I love this one ... its a way of telling  what astrological dynamic is affecting your relationships  by using heliocentric and geocentric models at the same time     ) 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Nungali

[Michael Sternbach]

Is Mars  and /or  Venus  inside or outside  the 'Moonsphere'  at the moment  ?   

 

(I love this one ... its a way of telling  what astrological dynamic is affecting your relationships  by using heliocentric and geocentric models at the same time     ) 

 

Not sure what you mean. Whether in the geocentric or heliocentric model: How can Venus or Mars ever be inside the Moon sphere?

 

However, the Moon is either inside or outside the Earth orbit, thus approaching either the Venus or the Mars orbit/sphere.

[Michael Sternbach]

Oh my God! What has happened to Wilfred?!

 

Trolls frying a moderator.

[MooNiNite]

The moderators are the trolls.

[Apech]

As regards the geocentric model - in a relative sense for an observer on the surface of the earth you see the stars and planets moving in arcs around you.  From your point of view you are the still point of observation and so you have a geocentric frame of reference experientially.  What was convincing about the Copernican model was not the fact of putting the sun at the centre so much as the way in which it simplified the planetary orbits in comparison say to the Ptolemy model with large circles and small circles and so on - and allowed eventually for the simple laws of newtonian physics to be applied to the solar system.

 

The idea that the sun is a fixed centre is also not correct as we now know.  However what we do know is that none of these objects is flat.  Unless you think that all the laws of physics are a giant conspiracy then it is impossible for them to be disks.

[wilfred]

Oh my God! What has happened to Wilfred?!

 

[Marblehead]

Also, many daoist concepts stem from thinking of earth as still and heaven as moving.

Not only Daoism but many other cultures as well.

 

In the beginning, the Earth was flat.

 

But as man's knowledge of the natural universe evolved the Earth morphed into a round object.

[Michael Sternbach]

As an on-topic aside, the idea of a flat Earth would probably need to be linked to a geocentric model of the universe -- which is not entirely implausible, strictly speaking. Just food for thought...

 

Thanks, I ate it and started thinking that not only is Earth revolving around the Sun but also following the latter around the Galactic Centre and, together with the rest of the Galaxy, flying toward the Virgo supercluster, which in turn is heading towards a mysterious 'great attractor'... In fact, we don't know how many courses Eart is pursuing and what our planet's course through the Universe looks like a a result.

 

If all her movements would cancel each other out, Earth could, all in all, be standing still, hypothetically. (If I am walking at 5 km/h inside a train driving at the same speed, but in the opposite direction, I will be moving relative to the train but walking in place relative to the outer environment.)

 

This reminds me that the great universal scientist Roger Boscovich (18th century) said that Earth is indeed moving in relative space, but could be standing still in absolute space.

 

Of course, there is no absolute space according to Special Relativity, unless... Well, I may talk about that later.

[Daeluin]

Seems to follow the same general principle of "addictions," or "habit momentum": we settle into a particular pattern and the more we explore it, the more deeply it becomes entrenched, until it seems to be the only reality that matters. To get out of it we need to transcend that reality, to somehow make our wagon jump out of the deep ruts its wheels have made time and time again. Helps to have awareness of the overall center the pattern has been winding around again and again, and perhaps use the counterpoint on the other side of that center as counter-force to shift the momentum.

 

Tolkien has an in depth philosophy on a realm with two trees, one silver and one gold, that brought light to the land. But when wars and presumption went to far, this "garden of eden" broke, causing the mundane realm to become round and the celestial realm to effectively become "distant" from the mundane, and the light of the two trees became the Sun and Moon. At the end of the Lord of the Rings, some of the last elves go to the Grey Havens to make the journey from the mundane to the celestial. In neidan, it is said one who fully accomplishes the task may return to the 10 continents and live on the 3 islands.

 

In Chinese historical legends, perhaps this is similar to two gods fighting and causing one of the four pillars of the world to break, resulting in a great flood and fundamentally altering the flow of qi. Or perhaps of Atlantean legend where a second moon broke and similarly damaged the fabric of reality. Or perhaps similar to one of many perspectives on the Arthurian Grail legend, where the Grail is found and taken from the mundane realm to the celestial realm as the mundane had been abusing its powers.

 

Interestingly, in some unpublished writings, there is mention of a prophecy made of a battle which takes place at the end of time, after which darkness is vanquished and the Two Trees are remade, restoring the mundane to the celestial... perhaps returning from time and space to our flat-earth paradise.

 

"Thus spoke Mandos in prophecy, when the Valar sat in judgement in Valinor and the rumour of his word was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of the Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall blacken the Sun and the Moon. But Eärendil shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day, Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Húrin and all fallen Men be avenged.

 

Thereafter shall Earth be broken and remade, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendil shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor will break them and with their fire Yavanna will rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Valar will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Túrin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar."

 

- The Later Quenta Silmarillion (History of Middle-earth, volume 11).

[Nungali]

Not sure what you mean. Whether in the geocentric or heliocentric model: How can Venus or Mars ever be inside the Moon sphere? However, the Moon is either inside or outside the Earth orbit, thus approaching either the Venus or the Mars orbit/sphere.

 

 

Hmmm ... not sure what I mean either         ..... how does it go again ....  ?

 

  

 

 

 

I will have to look it up . 

[Nungali]

is this a good place for today's joke ?   ... its even slightly on topic  ( flat or round , that is ) .

 

"Mommy, I looked in your bedroom this morning and you didnt even know I was there.  Daddy was lying on his back and you were sitting on his tummy jumping up and down .  Why were you doing that ? "

 

" Oh ! .....  I see ... errrmmm   ..... well Mary, you know how Daddy has  got a big round belly like a baloon ?  I was jumping up and down on it to make it go flat again. "

 

" Oh ....  I get it  .........    but that will never work."

 

"Why not ? "

 

" Because every time you go to tennis, Mrs Jones from next door comes over here and blows it back up again ." 

[Nungali]

The moderators are the trolls.

 

 

 

 

(You are just jealous because you dont have a suede safari suit )

[Daeluin]

Maybe we should rename "Off Topic" to "The Pub"... and of course, in "The Pub," the earth is... uh... neither round nor flat... but... multi-dimentional-lawn-clipping-fuz.

[Marblehead]

Maybe we should rename "Off Topic" to "The Pub"... and of course, in "The Pub," the earth is... uh... neither round nor flat... but... multi-dimentional-lawn-clipping-fuz.

Actually, discussions such as this are good exercises for us to determine whether we should hold to the myths of old or to rely on more supportable information for making decisions in our life.

 

Questions of a philosophical nature should be asked as these questions determine how we are going to relate with the rest of the universe.

 

The question really isn't about whether the Earth is flat or round; the question is, are we going to continue to believe old understandings that have been disproved or are we going to move forward to a more efficient state of being.

[thelerner]

I think this site sums up the history and experiential way we Know the earth is round.  How it was discovered thousands of years ago and the ten of the easiest ways to prove it.

http://www.smarterthanthat.com/astronomy/top-10-ways-to-know-the-earth-is-not-flat/

 

Two examples from it:

"

(3) Varying Star Constellations

This observation was originally made by Aristotle (384-322 BCE), who declared the Earth was round judging from the different constellations one sees while moving away from the equator.

After returning from a trip to Egypt, Aristotle noted that “there are stars seen in Egypt and […] Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions.” This phenomenon can only be explained with a round surface, and Aristotle continued and claimed that the sphere of the Earth is “of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent.” (De caelo, 298a2-10)

The farther you go from the equator, the farther the ‘known’ constellations go towards the horizon, and are replaced by different stars. This would not have happened if the world was flat:

(4) Shadows and Sticks

If you stick a stick in the [sticky] ground, it will produce a shadow. The shadow moves as time passes (which is the principle for ancient Shadow Clocks). If the world had been flat, then two sticks in different locations would produce the same shadow:

But they don’t. This is because the earth is round, and not flat:

Eratosthenes (276-194 BCE) used this principle to calculate the circumference of the Earth quite accurately. To see this demonstrated, refer to my experiment video about Eratosthenes and the circumference of the earth – “The Earth’s curvature is tasty!“."

 

 

Think about it the Greeks knew this and had proofs.

 

Edited March 26, 2016 by thelerner

[Brian]

Yeah, went down that path about 40 pages ago to no avail. An A for effort, though.