sincerity and the garden of the mind

[ilumairen]

My mind is a garden. I lovingly planted seeds of compassion, understanding, and acceptance. The sunlight of my attention enabled them to grow strong. Every once in awhile a weed of anger, frustration, or resentment sprouts. I notice the sprout, accept it's existense, and understand its potential. I then leave it to whither away from neglect.

 

Last night a storm blew in, the garden became a disheveled mess, and I discovered that while that little sprout of anger looked shriveled and puny it's root was quite strong.

 

It was a short lived storm, but while it raged I still called someone I have often naturally and effortlessly held with compassion a two faced bitch. At the moment it doesn't matter that she is in fact a two faced, often bitter and angry woman who gets lost in the words swirling around in her head. It doesn't matter that she has been hurtful to many people I care about. It doesn't even matter that just hours before we had a conversation about these things being the reason my SO doesn't talk to her after she threw one of her emotional fits at me about him not talking to her.

 

What matters is that I did this. There was even a moment of awareness that I was about to step from center. I knew what was happening, and I still took that step anyway. I willingly and intentionally stepped from the place of peace to metaphorically slap somebody who is lost in their own suffering upside the head.

 

Today I'm back to watering flowers.

[rene]

What matters is that I did this. There was even a moment of awareness that I was about to step from center. I knew what was happening, and I still took that step anyway. I willingly and intentionally stepped from the place of peace to metaphorically slap somebody who is lost in their own suffering upside the head. Today I'm back to watering flowers.

 

***

 

Two traveling monks reached a river where they met a young woman. Wary of the current, she asked if they could carry her across. One of the monks hesitated, but the other quickly picked her up onto his shoulders, transported her across the water, and put her down on the other bank. She thanked him and departed.

As the monks continued on their way, the one was brooding and preoccupied. Unable to hold his silence, he spoke out. "Brother, our spiritual training teaches us to avoid any contact with women, but you picked that one up on your shoulders and carried her!"

"Brother," the second monk replied, "I set her down on the other side, while you are still carrying her."

 

(-:

[Geof Nanto]

To my mind what you are acknowledging here is an aspect of what Carl Jung calls the shadow. It is a major archetype that we all possess…..

 

The shadow is simply the black side of someone's personality. It personifies everything that a person refuses to acknowledge about himself or herself, and is always known only indirectly through projection upon others. This is why the first meeting with the shadow is considered to be a moral effort. Also one discovers his black side as like coming from the outside (because of the psychical projection). The difficulty of absorbing the shadow is huge if we have to face alone this powerful feature. However, once integrated it results in a great expansion of consciousness.

 

Jung also believed that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity."; so that for some, it may be, “the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow...represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar”.

[ilumairen]

What matters is that I did this. There was even a moment of awareness that I was about to step from center. I knew what was happening, and I still took that step anyway. I willingly and intentionally stepped from the place of peace to metaphorically slap somebody who is lost in their own suffering upside the head. Today I'm back to watering flowers.

 

***

 

Two traveling monks reached a river where they met a young woman. Wary of the current, she asked if they could carry her across. One of the monks hesitated, but the other quickly picked her up onto his shoulders, transported her across the water, and put her down on the other bank. She thanked him and departed.

As the monks continued on their way, the one was brooding and preoccupied. Unable to hold his silence, he spoke out. "Brother, our spiritual training teaches us to avoid any contact with women, but you picked that one up on your shoulders and carried her!"

"Brother," the second monk replied, "I set her down on the other side, while you are still carrying her."

 

(-:

 

:big smile: Thank you my friend.

[ilumairen]

To my mind what you are acknowledging here is an aspect of what Carl Jung calls the shadow. It is a major archetype that we all possess…..

 

The shadow is simply the black side of someone's personality. It personifies everything that a person refuses to acknowledge about himself or herself, and is always known only indirectly through projection upon others. This is why the first meeting with the shadow is considered to be a moral effort. Also one discovers his black side as like coming from the outside (because of the psychical projection). The difficulty of absorbing the shadow is huge if we have to face alone this powerful feature. However, once integrated it results in a great expansion of consciousness.

 

Jung also believed that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity."; so that for some, it may be, “the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow...represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar”.

 

My shadow has always been there, acknowledged, but generally left alone. I am a descendant of warriors, conquerors, people who vied for power, and people who used religion to manipulate and control others, how could that not have left some sort of genetic footprint? I have inherited their force of will and charisma. There have always been people willing to follow, even without me expressing a desire to lead.

 

I could use this darkness to manipulate the world around me. I'd rather just grow flowers (yes, a lesser manipulation).

 

Sincerity dictates I be honest about my darkness and the fact that it does manifest lest my sharing of only the good leads others to believe I am other than I am. Hell, lest I somehow convince myself that I am other than I am.

 

Thank you for the thought provoking post Yueya. It is greatly appreciated.

[3bob]

Wow, strange notions  about one's lower nature being the "spirit of life".... granted recognition of such has its place and value through the passing of tests - yet darkness in the sense of lower nature is willfully twisted light and that has no root in truth 

[ilumairen]

Wow, strange notions  about one's lower nature being the "spirit of life".... granted recognition of such has its place and value through the passing of tests - yet darkness in the sense of lower nature is willfully twisted light and that has no root in truth 

 

Guy de Cheliak's great treatise and the art movement dance macabre were both responses to the black death - one a (not so very) arid scholarly work, the other expression of the darkness within. Both have root in the truth of the time and shared experience.

 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

 

 

(PS Sorry if I butchered Guy's last name. He was the physician to the pope during the black death, and should be easily found online if such a search is of interest.)

[3bob]

human truths based on the willfulness of personality and being caught up in events whether one is leading of following are relative and fleeting...like actors on a stage.  Truth knows the actors for what they are having discovered and uncovered itself  below such masks.  (I'm not talking about or referring to an author or a particular point in human history)

[Songtsan]

You planted seeds of acceptance, except for the weeds.

[ilumairen]

human truths based on the willfulness of personality and being caught up in events whether one is leading of following are relative and fleeting...like actors on a stage.  Truth knows the actors for what they are having discovered and uncovered itself  below such masks.  (I'm not talking about or referring to an author or a particular point in human history)

 

Ok You're talking the big capital T truth while we were discussing little t truths of manifest experience and moments.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[ilumairen]

You planted seeds of acceptance, except for the weeds.

 

Do you have any thoughts on the difference between acceptance and justification?

[3bob]

Des, In post #3 say I'd the words "true life of spirit" would generally or normally correlate with the big 'T' as you put it, thus the darkside that is being spoken of is for the many tests one goes through to determine what level of responsibility they are given as stewards of the "true life of spirit" when that term is used correctly. (and not inversely as previously alluded to)

[ilumairen]

Des, In post #3 say I'd the words "true life of spirit" would generally or normally correlate with the big 'T' as you put it, thus the darkside that is being spoken of is for the many tests one goes through to determine what level of responsibility they are given as stewards of the "true life of spirit" when that term is used correctly. (and not inversely as previously alluded to)

 

I remember arguing against Jung back in my college days, so I have no issue with you taking issue with his colorful use of the phrase 'true spirit of life' - which carries a slightly different meaning than your 'true life of spirit'. To me 'spirit of life' points to manifest, while 'life of spirit' points to mystery.

 

Whether he intentionally twisted a phrase, or was just being enthusiastic I do not know. Whether you are just being enthusiastic or intentionally twisting a phrase I do not know. Did he invert? Did you invert? Do the inversions serve a purpose? Perhaps yes. Both could be useful.

 

 

***********

 

 

In my personal experience those who work the hardest to deny darkness within themselves manifest the most darkness around themselves. As noted in the post you point to, it is generally in the form of projection.

[ilumairen]

You planted seeds of acceptance, except for the weeds.

 

I planted the weeds too. Everytime I justified her behavior to somebody she was hurtful to I watered those weeds. I held onto her stories in ways I do not hold my own, and that attention allowed the roots to grow strong.

 

Time to set the girl down, and make dinner.

 

Thanks Songtsan. You helped me see the missing puzzle piece.

[3bob]

projection outside is mostly the struggle to first and second base, while getting to third and finally to home are much more of an internal battle.

 

Btw, the "true life' or "true spirit" order of words meant the same to me, regardless of moving them around.

Edited October 18, 2015 by 3bob

[ilumairen]

I suspect our paths are just different 3bob.

 

For me it is not a game of baseball, but cycles of remembering/forgetting. We are already there, but sometimes we focus so intently on one aspect of the manifest that there isn't any room left for openness. We forget, and a breath later we can remember. For some it is different, but comparisons of this nature don't seem healthy. (see above )

 

 

The word 'of' is of consequence in where I saw the words pointing. 'Of' - as in pertaining to. A reduction of the phrase to 'true life' would change the meaning yet again, and I would likely have taken that to indicate the merging of mystery and manifest - the experience of both simultaneously.

 

 

I do not know which path that you follow - only that it isn't mine.

 

 

Thank you for your time.

[3bob]

umm, whatever but it sounds like several projections are yours per the nit picking of word order and or doable analogies.  And of course no two beings are on the exact same path since no two beings are exactly alike, btw, if you are a Mr. J.K. reader then we could pick on the pathless path...

[doc benway]

My mind is a garden. I lovingly planted seeds of compassion, understanding, and acceptance. The sunlight of my attention enabled them to grow strong. Every once in awhile a weed of anger, frustration, or resentment sprouts. I notice the sprout, accept it's existense, and understand its potential. I then leave it to whither away from neglect.

 

Last night a storm blew in, the garden became a disheveled mess, and I discovered that while that little sprout of anger looked shriveled and puny it's root was quite strong.

 

It was a short lived storm, but while it raged I still called someone I have often naturally and effortlessly held with compassion a two faced bitch. At the moment it doesn't matter that she is in fact a two faced, often bitter and angry woman who gets lost in the words swirling around in her head. It doesn't matter that she has been hurtful to many people I care about. It doesn't even matter that just hours before we had a conversation about these things being the reason my SO doesn't talk to her after she threw one of her emotional fits at me about him not talking to her.

 

What matters is that I did this. There was even a moment of awareness that I was about to step from center. I knew what was happening, and I still took that step anyway. I willingly and intentionally stepped from the place of peace to metaphorically slap somebody who is lost in their own suffering upside the head.

 

Today I'm back to watering flowers.

 

 

My shadow has always been there, acknowledged, but generally left alone. I am a descendant of warriors, conquerors, people who vied for power, and people who used religion to manipulate and control others, how could that not have left some sort of genetic footprint? I have inherited their force of will and charisma. There have always been people willing to follow, even without me expressing a desire to lead. I could use this darkness to manipulate the world around me. I'd rather just grow flowers (yes, a lesser manipulation). Sincerity dictates I be honest about my darkness and the fact that it does manifest lest my sharing of only the good leads others to believe I am other than I am. Hell, lest I somehow convince myself that I am other than I am. Thank you for the thought provoking post Yueya. It is greatly appreciated.

 

I admire your honesty, insight, and humility, Des.

[ilumairen]

Shared squiggly lines have to have agreed upon meanings, or they remain nothing more than squiggly lines - perhaps interesting to look at, but essentially pointless.

 

 

 

I like to simplify things, and honestly I was wondering if you were one of those internet gurus who likes to pop in, say pithy wise sounding things, and then wander off without adding anything of substance. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that. There's just not much there to engage with.

 

 

Finally I see a glimmer of something more. Nice to meet you. I'm Des. I'm still forgetful sometimes. I'm not a guru or a sage or a master, but I'm still walking.

 

 

If you want to walk along and discus J K, I'll have to go rummaging through the boxes in the closet. It's been years since I read his words, but perhaps we could have some interesting discussions. Your call. (Unless you go all pithy guru on me... then I reserve the right to walk away.)

 

 

 

[3bob]

Who me -the Bob who has been here for several years or do you mean Steve? - he's the wise and mellow dude and also tends to stick around without wandering off.  (hmm, I was the one who first mentioned the anti-guru, guru namely Mr. J.K. and if I remember correctly Steve was a fan of his a ways back and may be interested in further discussion along that line...while I never have been a J.K. fan excepting for a few of the jewels he came up with that sparkled with insight - otherwise I'd say a path is not finished until it is walked all the way to where another one begins..  I used to read Allan Watts years ago who I also thought had some great insights for those unfamiliar with "eastern teachings".

 

Anyway, I'm more or less game for various stuff, and don't mind making some cycles around the mulberry bush to see what pops out, although not to early in morning.

[ilumairen]

Alright.. the walking away was a projection.

 

 

 

Seeking the Heart of Wisdom - Goldstein and Kornfield It is the only Kornfield I've read; someone else chose it for me long ago. And after perusing the first chapter I'm reminded of the fact that I'm not Buddhist.

 

[doc benway]

Lots of good stuff to be found through J Krishnamurti.

I also disagree with him not infrequently, and I'm OK with that too.

I don't read him much anymore but will always have a warm place in my heart for him. 

[ilumairen]

Hahaha Now this is funny!!!

 

:feeling rather relieved:

 

Is Krishnamurti worth looking at?

[ilumairen]

:sigh: A quick search shows he's another one who was able to form great ideas because there have always been others holding him up, admiring him, taking care of him.

 

 

***************

 

How does a guru who was always held up as a guru become a great anti-guru?

[Everything]

What matters is that I did this. There was even a moment of awareness that I was about to step from center. I knew what was happening, and I still took that step anyway. I willingly and intentionally stepped from the place of peace to metaphorically slap somebody who is lost in their own suffering upside the head. Today I'm back to watering flowers.

 

***

 

Two traveling monks reached a river where they met a young woman. Wary of the current, she asked if they could carry her across. One of the monks hesitated, but the other quickly picked her up onto his shoulders, transported her across the water, and put her down on the other bank. She thanked him and departed.

 

As the monks continued on their way, the one was brooding and preoccupied. Unable to hold his silence, he spoke out. "Brother, our spiritual training teaches us to avoid any contact with women, but you picked that one up on your shoulders and carried her!"

 

"Brother," the second monk replied, "I set her down on the other side, while you are still carrying her."

 

(-:

hahaha