What is the best martial arts?

[GrandTrinity]

So where is more info on this pre birth bagua? there is so many baguas and I want to find the best one/teacher.

[IanB]

[gendao]

Anyone see the Pacquiao Vs De La Hoya fight? I think boxing's an interesting sport to study punching tehniques and body mechanics...

Oscar De La Hoya Boxing Stats

Record: 39-5

Wins: 39 (KO 30)

Losses: 5 (KO 1)

Height: 5' 10 1/2"

Reach: 73"

Age: 35

Division: light middleweight

 

Manny Pacquiao Boxing Stats

Record: 47-3-2

Wins: 47 (KO 35)

Losses: 3 (KO 2)

Draws: 2

Height: 5' 6 1/2"

Reach: 67"

Age: 29

Division: lightweight

If you watch the fight, I think Manny was much lighter on his feet with better body unity & rhythm. Oscar seemed stiff-legged, disjointed and did a lot more simple arm-punching, than full-body hitting. I think Oscar was also over-canted stancewise to over-favor his left jab, but when he couldn't fire those off at such a moving target like Manny, his right cross was too far back to use, either. Leaving him basically weaponless..

 

Also, I could just tell by their pre-fight photos that Oscar looked tired, worried and resigned, while Pacquiao looked confidently like a pitbull ready to go for the kill...

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well the "best martial art" depends on what you want. I personally want a martial art that can help me with a fight but that can also help me become a better person.... For winning fights, I'd say go with some Krav Maga or some fighting system like that. Ninjutsu is also good (duh ) taught by Masaaki Hatsumi that gives both developmental philosophy and... well, ninjutsu. Though there are people who don't like Bujinkan for whatever reasons, etc... ya know.

 

Then there's taijiquan, which is a really effective martial art... it's just that not a lot of people these days can use it in actual fighting... which is sad because that's what it was developed for but IMHO a true master of taijiquan would be the best

 

Can't say that I think TKD is good, karate can be good depending on who your teacher is.

 

There are two things that go into making a martial art "good" in my opinion 1) the teacher 2) the student.

 

You see take an art like karate, I did karate for years, between the ages of 9 and 16. I practiced hard every day, did everything I was supposed to. Then one day some guy walks in the door, gets his yellow belt or whatever, and first day sparring spars me... and he kicks my ass. His friend joins two months later and I spar him and he kicks my ass AGAIN. Yes, it was a sparring match. But I was physically shaken. If that were a real fight I would have been KILLED. I've dumped years of my life learning an art that could get me KILLED?

 

I dropped karate like it was hot.

 

Anyway, moved on to other stuff, but always was wondering why karate sucked so bad. I did some research. Karate doesn't actually suck so bad, in fact it was created to be a complete martial art and was made at a time when your life was on the line in a fight. The problem? People learn part of a system, then made a school before completing the full curriculum, they didn't know all the form applications, then they taught people who learned even less of the system, opened a school, and within three or four generations you've got people who CAN'T FIGHT teaching karate.... 20 years later I come along and ya know the rest.

 

Secrecy + student ignorance can ruin a style within a few (or even one!) generations. It's sad. That's why you have to have an instructor that KNOWS the system and can teach it effectively. The student, on the other hand, has to have the devotion.

 

A good student with a bad teacher could end up losing their life. And all the subsequent pairings of good/bad student/teacher.

 

All that being said, find a martial art that is "complete" (handles all aspects of fighting, punch, kick, grapple, wrestling, manipulation, long range short range medium range ground, etc etc) and find a teacher that knows what they are doing, study hard, and you will be good.

 

TaeKwonDo (since it's been brought up in the thread) I don't think is a complete system (ESPECIALLY the main styles you see... some offshoot schools teach good stuff, but then it's not really TKD...) on top of that, it was a relatively recent creation and... yeah I dunno, there are better Korean arts out there.

 

I personally think that systems where you see teachers continue to train into their 60s 70s 80s etc. have more value than those in which a practitioner is done by the time they hit 40 because of all the damage they have done to their bodies.

As someone who has run a commercial martial arts school I disagree. People in the US tend to have a microwave oven/ remote control mentality and want immediate gratification. They hop into an art and then just as quickly hop out looking for the next trendy thing. Knowing that they are on the hook for some cash helps keep them motivated. Also, instructors that are worth their salt spend as much time and almost as much money on their training as do doctors and lawyers and except for a very few are not rewarded financially nearly so well. A long term contract reduces their financial risk and allows them to teach the students that do get off their butts and show up.

 

Most schools will offer a free class or two to prospective students. Check out several schools by taking advantage of this. If this isn't enough time to fully evaluate a school tell the instructor you want to train for a month before making a decision to sign a long term contract. To compensate him for his time you need to offer to pay a 1 month rate that is higher than what you would pay under the contract. Most instructors won't have a problem with this.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Tenguzake

 

I am sorry but I have to disagree with everything you just said.

 

Some of the best schools I've been to have a monthly tuition of like, $50, and that's to rent out the building they practice in. They "hook" their students because the students know what they are learning is 100% real and effective and get them to. Yeah, they give free trial classes, and if you want to train for a month, you pay for one month. If you want to keep coming back, they won't ask you for money till the next month.

 

My karate school was one of those contract schools. I was a young kid who really wanted to learn karate, 'cause I thought it had it all: philosophy, self defense techniques, all that good stuff. 9, 12, and two year contracts at the school. I paid my 9 months, got to mid-rank. Paid for another 9 months. One month into the second 9 month contract period is when I got my butt handed to me in a sparring session. You know, I figure, what the heck, it was just me... then it happened again. Then I started asking the teachers questions, "what would you do in this situation, what about this, what about that?"

 

No satisfactory answers.

 

They tell you you can't learn MA from books and instructional DVD's... well I went and got martial arts books and DVD's. One was the Tao of Jeet Kun Do by Bruce Lee, and the other was a self defense DVD from Stephen K. Hayes. There are people who have issues with one or both of these people. But let me tell you something: I learned more in one weekend of reviewing those materials about fighting than I learned in years of karate study at schools that had those contracts and stuff.

 

I had months to go on my contract and hundreds of dollars already invested but I walked right out that door. I was 16 and all along I thought I had been learning effective stuff... but no way. I found a Wing Chun and that stuff was like a giant breath of fresh air. And guess what? No contracts! That place ALWAYS had 30-40 people in there training 5 or 6 times a week, no contracts. They kept people because that stuff was effective. If you need to motivate people by taking their cash... I don't know, there's nothing civil I can say to that, so I won't say anything about it.

 

The best way to "keep your customers" is to give them what they want. PERIOD.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Sloppy Zhang

[Ya Mu]

I am not a martial artist but I have studied some of the arts in my healing studies. What I have seen is that hard style appears to be for the folks up to age 25. Soft (inner) styles seem to be appreciated more by older guys. I like Hsing I.

 

Tai Jee is a wonderful martial art although it appears quite a lot of the USA teachers have no idea what the martial applications of each move are and choose to present it as a relaxation/exercise system. Chen Pan Ling style would be my favorite as Chen Pan Ling was an engineer who studied all the tai chi styles and made minute corrections to optimize the moment arm and force vector of each move (made each move optimum for strike efficacy).

 

But I come back to this story:

Once a policeman came in to one of my qigong classes and immediately told me the reason he came, "I understand a REAL qigong master can knock a gun out of a criminal's hand with his qi. I want to learn to do that."

Toward the end of the class I asked him did he now understand that a REAL qigong master would do no such thing. He would instead project calm energies to diffuse the situation.

[doc benway]

I think the best martial art is the one you love to practice every day.

[Vajrasattva]

The one that comes straight from the "SOURCE".

[Stigweard]

The one that comes straight from the "SOURCE".

 

 

Or is it the one that leads you to the "SOURCE"?

[Pranaman]

I like chinese boxing styles. I really like Yichuan. I admit i'm biased towards non-chinese oriental martial arts. I've never heard anyone trained in karate or taekwondo speak about combat science and teach me something new. It seems like most schools in the US of these martial arts, teach what isn't an art anymore, just techniques and practice. Correct me please. Silat seems good.

[Mal]

I think the best martial art is the one you love to practice every day.

 

What Steve said.

 

Nice old thread BTW

[Spirit Ape]

BJJ or Judo is great for physcial body conditioning i just got 2nd and 3rd place in 2 different wait division in Judo recently and will be entering ADCC (submission grappling) comp coming up soon.

 

Internal and external kung fu is awesome but i do Judo/BJJ for fun!

 

They are all great all systems are good if you put the time in!

 

Ape

[Starjumper]

What is the best martial arts?

 

My friend says Wing Chun.

 

Yueng Chuan is the best, it's got the best of the secret opera internal style of Wing Chun, along with the best internal elements of Bagua, Tai Chi, Monkey, Mantis and about 150 other internal martial arts along with some of the power techniques of Tien Shan chi kung, which give it it's super speed and flowing softness.

 

Starjumper,

Body like a whip

 

Yueng Chuan is similar to Russian Systema, which came from the same part of the world as Tien Shan kung fu, which has been lost to the world, but it inspired Yueng Chuan.

 

Anyone here ever seen Systema in action?

Edited December 9, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Spirit Ape]

Systema uses soft body like my Dragon body system 3 sphere methods so is mine now the best?

 

Where can we see this Yueng Chuan?

[Starjumper]

Yours could be second best =) I'm not prejudiced either.

 

The most awesome videos are of my teacher, Dave, training with and demonstrating to special forces and Navy Seals, but those videos will probably never be public. I'll find some videos that show the flavor of Yueng Chuna though, and also some systema videos that have a similar flavor:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bJ1_0EIDpk

 

 

 

The following web page has three videos at the top plus it shows Mr. Yueng with Dave in the picture at the top:

 

http://www.wuji.com/Harris%20Sensei/tribute.htm

 

That should get you started

[Mal]

No!.... I'm Spartacus!!!

 

oops sorry It's all good (well mostly)

[Spirit Ape]

Yeah i see what you mean by the systema method i didnt get to see them all is there any full out sparring with gloves on clips?

 

Thanks for sharing!!

 

Ape

[minkus]

Talk about a bump

 

I dont know if there is a best MA, its all depends on the person and its condition (every aspect) that very moment i guess.

 

I practice Chen style taijiquan, xinyi (Hebei) and baguazhang (get thought Gao but practice a bit Yin at home myself mainly due to lack of space). I love them as they energize you trough the day. I do this every day and have lessons 3 or 4 times a week for corrections and nice new techniques, main focus is on Chen style.

 

I cannot answer if there is a best MA, i would be to biased towards internal arts. I think if you train hard enough in any art you gonna be a force to be reckoned with

 

Regards, Mike

[Stigweard]

Anyone here ever seen Systema in action?

 

Ya ... I have just started training systema. Kinda humbling to have my arse handed to me in 6000 different ways.

 

Systema Demo

 

Systema Serbia - June 2007 seminar highlights

[minkus]

Kinda humbling to have my arse handed to me in 6000 different ways.

 

Haha, humbling yes

[Baguakid]

Of course, Bagua Zhang is the Best!! ha ha.

 

Seriously though, from the point of developing the body, opening channels, clearing bad qi, and more, Bagua Zhang is one of the best in my opinion.

[Bum Grasshopper]

Why is it that when these "artists" enter the octagon, they favor haymakers and double leg take downs rather than their fancy techniques?

[Sloppy Zhang]

Why is it that when these "artists" enter the octagon, they favor haymakers and double leg take downs rather than their fancy techniques?

 

Because the vast majority of the "artists" who enter the octagan haven't appropriately learned their art to begin with.

 

Watch these videos real quick for a nice discussion:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAf8lPKDcOQ

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGARwAle9VM

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zB4ypgemEQ

 

The problem is that people train, but when they get into a real fight they are unable to properly express their art. If you can't do that, might as well just train in haymakers and double leg takedowns. It's one of the reasons why I left my commercial karate dojo. We learned all these karate forms and techniques, but then when we sparred it was just kickboxing and boxing and stuff. I was like, if I want to learn that I can go someplace 100x better than here so... yeah.

 

I like TMA and stuff, it can be super effective, as long as you train it effectively under someone who can use it effectively.

[Guest sykkelpump]

If you only do one I wold say Muay thai

[Squatting Monkey]

Depends what you want.

If you want to learn how to fight, then boxing/muay thai mixed with bjj or judo will give you what you need.

For sport, tkd, kickboxing.

For history, tradition, hobby, one of the Japanese weapons arts would suit you

For the long haul (health, flexibility, longevity), then it has to be the internal arts.

[Spirit Ape]

When you look at martial arts its either has to be a system that brings health and can help you fight!

 

All arts are good but one needs to have the fighting spirit or the best so called system in the world wont save yo ass on the street if you have no ticker.

 

MMA is effective cause it teaches you from day one to fight, no forms, no meditation, no qi kung, no theories of yin yang etc just straight up fighting and this is what works. But it also lacks the best stuff for later on in life which is cultivation of mind, body , spirit different to fighting mentality.

 

I teach my kung fu seperate to the traditional classes so people can pick and choose to fight and or do the art!

 

There is no best art just proper training and development!

 

Ape