Golden Dragon Shining Posted October 22, 2015 Can't they not believe something somewhere else? Is there not some atheist dead materialist forum they can all congregate and be skeptical and sarcastic, like a wall or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted October 22, 2015 Specific examples please 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Basher Posted October 22, 2015 What has belief that the Earth is Flat, to do with Taoism? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jetsun Posted October 22, 2015 I would say that non believing is a pretty important part of being a spiritual person, I'm doing my best to root out my beliefs every day. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dust Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) . Edited October 22, 2015 by dustybeijing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) We have to be careful that ones mind isn't so open that the brain falls out. Critical thinking and double checking thing found on the internet is important. It's about looking at both sides (weighing there expertise) and considering things critically. Edited October 22, 2015 by thelerner 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted October 22, 2015 You're not comfortable being around people who don't share your worldview? The worst conformists I've ever encountered were in the New Age circles I used to dabble in. They would all nod their heads and agree that the church was evil and churchgoers were a bunch of sheep, and then one of them would make some unfounded claim, and they they would all agree. So long as the syntax felt comfortable to them, they were unanimous in their opinions. For what it's worth, I think spiritually-inclined people who find their way to Daoism often do so because they were frustrated at some level with exactly that kind of uncritical, automatic, acceptance of unfounded, untested and unprovable ideas. Daoism is pragmatic and evidence-based. It's scientific. And I suspect that's at least a small part of the "non-belief" you're sensing here. What would you like people to believe, to make you feel comfortable? 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 22, 2015 I shouldn't even make post in this thread. However, too late for that. Question Everything. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geof Nanto Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) “I was a sceptic, a materialist, an engineer, a cynic — and I am grateful I was those things, I needed and need the toughness of mind they have given me, the clarity and the power of judgment. Do not imagine that the spiritual life requires only abandon; it demands the highest kind of intelligence also, the clearest powers of discrimination and judgment. I do not feel I have abandoned my old life; I feel I have built on its foundations, begun to bring it to ripeness.". (Spoken by Dilip, an businessman and engineer, and recounted in A Journey to Ladakh.) From my perspective, this forum operates excellently. In the six months I've been a member, there's only been one person whose posts I thought were out of place to the extent of causing disharmony. That's because he was a prolific poster with excellent rhetorical skills promoting a political agenda of his own. He had little knowledge of Daoism or Buddhism, no interest in learning more, and no respect for these traditions. Edited October 22, 2015 by Yueya 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted October 22, 2015 Can't they not believe something somewhere else? Is there not some atheist dead materialist forum they can all congregate and be skeptical and sarcastic, like a wall or something? So, the new guy turns up here (you, that is ) and makes posts supporting crappy New Age 'theories' ( that are re-hashes of already old debunked stuff anyway, totally unoriginal ) that seem painfully ignorant to some of the Daoists here, and has nothing to do with Daoism and then starts criticizing those , that dont share their silly 'beliefs' and suggest they go somewhere else . Why dont you go somewhere else if you dont like it ? Somewhere where a post or an answering post to relevant points is met by posting a you tube vid with no comment or explanation and think it means something * (see below ) Is there not some believe anything , conspiratorial 'spiritual' forum you can congregate at and be gullible and believing, like .... http://forum.davidicke.com/ And ... OHH ... heaven help us if any sarcasm or ridicule is used to expose any of our so important " ego tags " and belief systems This calls for more than a poem ... it needs music with it ! * Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) We have to be careful that ones mind isn't so open that the brain falls out. Popular sayings rarely contain deep wisdom. You need to experience your brain falling out in order to realize you are still there. ;-) Edited October 23, 2015 by Owledge 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golden Dragon Shining Posted October 23, 2015 The skeptics to which I refer are the type without any critical thinking/ questioning/ self investigation. Their answer to everything is basically no or whatever the TV, school teacher told them was the truth, these people often live an entire life without any personal development. They'll die with the same beliefs they had/were given when they were a teenager basically. The constant nay sayers generally, who at every dream, innovation or new discovery will say "no". A man says he will build a flying machine they say "it isn't possible", this type of person. A person speaks of Chi and they will say "no such thing", end of conversation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Harley! Stop fooling around strapping combustion engines on bicycles and start making something of yourself! Edited October 23, 2015 by Owledge 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 23, 2015 The skeptics to which I refer are the type without any critical thinking/ questioning/ self investigation. Their answer to everything is basically no or whatever the TV, school teacher told them was the truth, these people often live an entire life without any personal development. They'll die with the same beliefs they had/were given when they were a teenager basically. The constant nay sayers generally, who at every dream, innovation or new discovery will say "no". A man says he will build a flying machine they say "it isn't possible", this type of person. A person speaks of Chi and they will say "no such thing", end of conversation. Okay, that post put your thoughts into an understandable perspective. I am a skeptic. Always have been. Before I was a teenager I questioned and was mostly told to shut up. I have made The Science Channel's "Question Everything" a part of my own mentality. But then, I try to maintain a logical and reasonable mind. Don't just discard all thoughts. Consider them. Might this or that be useful to myself or someone else? And I do try to keep my judgments for my life only. After all, what is useless to me may be useful to someone else. And I do agree with you, we should at least consider alternatives. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted October 23, 2015 The skeptics to which I refer are the type without any critical thinking/ questioning/ self investigation. Their answer to everything is basically no or whatever the TV, school teacher told them was the truth, these people often live an entire life without any personal development. They'll die with the same beliefs they had/were given when they were a teenager basically. The constant nay sayers generally, who at every dream, innovation or new discovery will say "no". A man says he will build a flying machine they say "it isn't possible", this type of person. A person speaks of Chi and they will say "no such thing", end of conversation. you actually see a lot of evidence of that here? I think you might be extrapolating the content of some frivolous conversations into a far larger issue than it is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leth Posted October 23, 2015 Can't they not believe something somewhere else? Is there not some atheist dead materialist forum they can all congregate and be skeptical and sarcastic, like a wall or something? (Hard atheism is contrary to sceptic thought.) Scepticism is an important part of Daoist thought, so perhaps that explains why so many people in a forum for discussing Doaist thought are also sceptics. As for belief it is a complex concept, and from a Daoist perspective it can be said that one should only believe by not believing. Which might explain why so many people are non-believers in a forum for discussing Daoist thought. But this of course is a matter of perspective. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golden Dragon Shining Posted October 23, 2015 My take on Taoist no belief is like the zen full empty cup thing. One non-belief expands awareness/knowledge the other limits it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leth Posted October 23, 2015 The skeptics to which I refer are the type without any critical thinking/ questioning/ self investigation. Their answer to everything is basically no or whatever the TV, school teacher told them was the truth, these people often live an entire life without any personal development. They'll die with the same beliefs they had/were given when they were a teenager basically. The constant nay sayers generally, who at every dream, innovation or new discovery will say "no". A man says he will build a flying machine they say "it isn't possible", this type of person. A person speaks of Chi and they will say "no such thing", end of conversation. You seem to describe dogmaticism or some form of negative form of trivialism. Scepticism is characterised and defined as critical thinking and questioning, and it is rather confusing that you use word to describe the opposite of it's most common colliqual definition. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golden Dragon Shining Posted October 23, 2015 you actually see a lot of evidence of that here? I think you might be extrapolating the content of some frivolous conversations into a far larger issue than it is. That may be so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leth Posted October 23, 2015 My take on Taoist no belief is like the zen full empty cup thing. One non-belief expands awareness/knowledge the other limits it. This can be interpreted to a view of Daoists views on non-belief, it is however not very clear and can be interpreted in other ways aswell. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreytoWhite Posted October 23, 2015 I would say that non believing is a pretty important part of being a spiritual person, I'm doing my best to root out my beliefs every day. Same here. Dropping attachment to excess baggage is extremely important, silly beliefs are sometimes the easiest to drop when you can laugh at them. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted October 23, 2015 Sceptics believe that knowledge is impossible to obtain(subjectivism), as opposed to Mystics who believe it is available without effort (intrinsically revealed). Both essentially believe in the same thing from different standpoints-the primacy of consciousness. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aeran Posted October 24, 2015 as opposed to Mystics who believe it is available without effort (intrinsically revealed) I wouldn't agree with that definition - I don't know anyone who considers themselves a mystic who believes that mystical knowledge, experience or states can be attained "without effort." 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bud Jetsun Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) I don't claim to know anything but perhaps a Mystic chooses to appreciate the mystery of reality. The skeptic/realist/atheist is perhaps those who choose to appreciate some faith-rooted bias in human constructed models. Neither is a better option, both require trading Now. Unlimited Love, -Bud Edited October 24, 2015 by Bud Jetsun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
