Alcohol is a dangerous drug.

[AussieTrees]

:?:

Edited April 9, 2016 by AussieTrees

[Ell]

I'm 27 years old and have never had a sip. People hear that and go straight to, "must be religious, must have had alcoholic parents, must have debilitating social anxiety, must...." but, nope, I just observed from adolescence how it made people act, how it changed people, and decided it wasn't for me. I committed to a "straight edge" lifestyle, but even after that "label" kind of wore off in adulthood, it still remained a vow I'd made to myself that was important to me. 

 

Coming at it from that unique perspective, here's three takes that I have:

 

Firstly, from a place of compassion to those who have a problem with it, it's something that I wrestle with a lot, and an area where my attitudes are always seemingly in flux. In my more idealistic teenage years, drinkers bothered me a lot. I'd hear my dad describe alcoholics as "poor guy,"  etc and I really struggled to understand why people had any sympathy for them such as he did. These people were killing themselves, so who cares? But then as I grew up, and I continue to grow up, I've had to come to grips with a funny thing about myself which, again, I've yet to figure out: many - an uncanny amount really - of my closest relationships over the years have been with heavy, heavy drinkers and/or people who seem to have "the gene." The lifetime non-drinker somehow attracted to his direct opposite in that regard, and vice versa....what does that mean? And so I remain still a swinging pendulum between as harsh, stoic, and uncaring of an attitude as one could have, and the most interested, compassionate one can be towards the situation. 

 

That being said, and, again, from my outsider's perspective, here are the two most corrosive things about alcohol, to me:

 

1) It's dangerous because it's socially acceptable. People look at me like I have two heads when I espouse the opinion that alcohol is a worse drug than heroin, but I guess what I really mean is that alcohol is a more dishonest drug than heroin. The abuse of either is going to take you to the same place, eventually but at least the use of heroin in our society is like calling a spade a spade.

 

2) Alcohol is the opposite of creativity. I find that people often put away pursuing their real dreams, or making weekend adventures to explore life, because they just "can't miss" the Saturday party, the bar scene, one night out with the guys/girls....it's complacency juice and that's always made me really sad. I feel like we're losing brilliant, unique individuals to the allure of being just like everybody else.

 

 

Anyways, curious to see where the thread goes....a topic I'm always interested in...  

[Jetsun]

In world wide studies of communities with the greatest health and longevity many of those studied had moderate alcohol consumption as part of their diet, usually red wine.

[leth]

In world wide studies of communities with the greatest health and longevity many of those studied had moderate alcohol consumption as part of their diet, usually red wine.

 

This tells us nothing about the health effect of alchohol.

[thelerner]

To become addicted is indeed horrible and life shattering.  To enjoy a glass of wine with dinner or a beer or two with friends can be positive socially and health wise.  I brew apfelwein, an apple wine and its nice to have people over to taste each new creation.  It's also nice to have guys over to share a glass or two of whiskey.   It IS a double edged sword but done properly it can be a wonderful social lubricant. 

 

From most studies, for men, moderate alcohol use is a health tonic and leads to longer life.  (thinning blood, raising good cholesterol plus other possible flavinoid related stuff)    It's probably not worth the risk if alcoholism runs in your family or you tend to binge drink or you simply don't care for it or see the toll it takes on society and decide to take a stand against.  It's all good.

 

In my culture the root word for wine is in the same group as medicine.  Wine is considered a bit sacred, not to be abused, except for a holiday (or two)  where one is supposed to get smashed. 

 

Half my friends abstain and that's great.   The body recognizes alcohol as a poison (& in a way, it is), it lowers inhibitions and reaction time.  It has the potential to do very bad things.  Too much destroys creativity, yet at times, there is, imo a sweet spot.  The buzz zone or just before it.  It's a drug that one should be weary of, used not abused or not used at all. 

Edited October 24, 2015 by thelerner

[Jetsun]

 

This tells us nothing about the health effect of alchohol.

Well it can't be too bad if many of the healthiest and long living people on the planet drink it (red wine that is), reducing things like heart disease

Edited October 24, 2015 by Jetsun

[leth]

Well it can't be too bad if many of the healthiest and long living people on the planet drink it (red wine that is), reducing things like heart disease

 

Many of the healthies and long living people on the planet also smoke. The idea that if the healthiest and long living people do something then that mush be good is a rather problematic idea. What one should compare are the difference between those that do and don't do that thing. Of course you have to regard other factors aswell.

 

There is actually no conclusive evidence that it really does reduce heart disease. And even if it does many argue that the benefits are not worth the problems it causes.

[Jetsun]

Many of the healthies and long living people on the planet also smoke. The idea that if the healthiest and long living people do something then that mush be good is a rather problematic idea. What one should compare are the difference between those that do and don't do that thing. Of course you have to regard other factors aswell.

 

There is actually no conclusive evidence that it really does reduce heart disease. And even if it does many argue that the benefits are not worth the problems it causes.

 

No doubt it is a complicated area, the evidence for and against alcohol is by no means clear. Abuse of alcohol is the real issue, like abuse of most things. If you go to many countries like Spain or Italy having a glass of wine with food is pretty normal and common at all times of the day, even given to children and it doesn't destroy their society or lead to mass health problems. It was only a few years ago the French Police were being given wine for lunch. But here in the UK alcohol is a public health and social issue.

 

Edited October 25, 2015 by Jetsun

[Ell]

No doubt it is a complicated area, the evidence for and against alcohol is by no means clear. Abuse of alcohol is the real issue, like abuse of most things. If you go to many countries like Spain or Italy having a glass of wine with food is pretty normal and common at all times of the day, even given to children and it doesn't destroy their society or lead to mass health problems. It was only a few years ago the French Police were being given wine for lunch. But here in the UK alcohol is a public health and social issue.

 

 

I think your (and the newspaper clip's) measured response kind of hits the nail on the head here. The over-simplified, too straightforward "red wine is actually good for you" argument has always kind of rubbed me the wrong way. One because people in general LOVE to drink - it's deeply, deeply ingrained into so many cultures - and I can't imagine any study not being somewhat biased (whether to that side of the spectrum or the other i.e. mine). But I think a lot of it has to do with stress, too. Stress is a bigger killer than anything. So anything that relaxes you in an otherwise stressful life is going to reflect as being "good for you." My brother eats a lot of grilled-cheese sandwiches....if they were as prevalent (and perhaps as "effective") as alcohol, I'm sure there'd be a myriad of studies saying that grill cheese sandwiches reduced disease, too.   

[dust]

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Edited May 1, 2016 by dustybeijing

[Perceiver]

Binge drinking as in party drinking can damage the nervous system. I did that weekly from i was 16-27. I stopped when i couldnt feel my orgasms so well anymore. Still havent fully recovered that feeling.

[Chang]

Socrates hit the nail on the head. “Take everything in moderation; nothing to excess."

 

Apply this maxim to just about everything in life and you won't go far wrong.

[soaring crane]

I live in the area of planet Earth with the highest density of breweries-to-person, by a large margin. Beer is viewed as liquid bread here. Thanks to that, alcoholism is easy to observe, and it looks pretty rotten. Actually, the big fat guys with the red faces aren't the alcoholics, it's the skinny ones that have the real problems, because they've generally moved on from beer to hard stuff, and no longer eat food.

 

It used to be completely normal for businesses to provide beer for their workers, no joke. Production workers would go to the beer vending machine at start of their shift, at 6am, for example, get themselves three bottles (500mL) which would take them to lunch. After lunch, they'd have another three, and then they'd drive home and actually start drinking.

 

Those days are thankfully over (but it wasn't all that long ago, maybe 15 years at most). A medical doctor told me that the effects on his clientele have been positive, but a psychiatrist friend of mine said she's seen a huge increase in work/stress-related complaints. Coincidences? Maybe, maybe not.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Beef & Beer is the historically proven military/industrial ration for slaves.

 

For the past several thousand years.

 

Alcohol makes soldiers and workers "shut themselves off" when they are not functioning in service ("on duty").

 

Meat helps addict them to the alcohol, and makes them able to work like,,, animals.

 

From ancient Egypt and before that, to the modern fake "hipster" culture - all just slave management.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Andrei]

What are the long term effects from alcohol consumption?

 

Depends on the quantity, a glass of wine a day won't hurt but more than that liver cirrhosis.

[AussieTrees]

Depends on the quantity, a glass of wine a day won't hurt but more than that liver cirrhosis.

Thankyou Andrei,

 

My grandfather would share a bottle of wine with my grandmother,during a meal.

Usually they would finish the same bottle with the evening meal.

 

Never saw either drunk.

 

Roll back the clock,in those days,manual labor was used for everything plus horses.

No ibiprofin,self medication with alcohol,treated mental illness as well as many physical discomforts.

 

Cold weather or the effects of cold weather has seen self medication,doesn't really help with the cold,can make you less concerned.

[Miffymog]

Socrates hit the nail on the head. “Take everything in moderation; nothing to excess."

 

As he got older, Socrates was asked how he felt when he started losing his 'manly' abilities. He said that it was like being unchained from a lunatic.

 

Not entirely sure how this fits in with alcohol consumption, but I'm sure there's a link somewhere

[soaring crane]

I believe the "one glass of red wine is good for the heart", or whatever spin is put on it, is another myth. As I understand it, the studies that it comes from never really made that conclusion. I think the point is that one small glass is less damaging than a full bottle, but that's about it.

 

On the scale of damage done by varying amounts of alcohol, the zero would be the healthiest level. Anything above that is going to result in at least a little damage (I'm no teatotaler, btw. I take the good with the bad).

[Aetherous]

I think the point is that one small glass is less damaging than a full bottle, but that's about it.

 

There was this book which I'm too lazy/busy to look up at the moment, which summed up all of the studies up to that point...actually, having a little is healthier than having none.

[Miffymog]

There's a fact I often heard when I was teaching a number of years ago that teenagers who smoked cannabis were less likely to have mental health problems than those who did not. It's not that cannabis does your mental health any favours, its just that those who had tried it were, on average, less up-tight than those who had not. If this 'fact' is true, its partly an example of the games you can play with statistics and how its possible 'prove' some bizarre falsehoods. 

[Aetherous]

There's a fact I often heard when I was teaching a number of years ago that teenagers who smoked cannabis were less likely to have mental health problems than those who did not. It's not that cannabis does your mental health any favours, its just that those who had tried it were, on average, less up-tight than those who had not. If this 'fact' is true, its partly an example of the games you can play with statistics and how its possible 'prove' some bizarre falsehoods. 

 

That is bizzare...because research shows a correlation between youth marijuana use and mental illness, not the opposite.

[Jetsun]

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-and-heart-disease/

 

"More than 100 prospective studies show an inverse association between moderate drinking and risk of heart attack, ischemic (clot-caused) stroke, peripheral vascular disease, sudden cardiac death, and death from all cardiovascular causes. (1) The effect is fairly consistent, corresponding to a 25 percent to 40 percent reduction in risk."

 

A 25-40% reduction is pretty significant, although while moderate drinking is good for the heart apparently it increases the risk of bowel cancer, so it's benefits have to be taken into consideration with the whole effect.

[soaring crane]

here, two English-language articles that touch on what I learned from a German-language report:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/mar/07/safe-level-alcohol-consumption

 

http://davidroodman.com/blog/2015/05/01/are-the-benefits-of-moderate-drinking-a-myth/

 

Basically, there never been a serious, randomized study that has ever proven that alcohol in any amount is healthy. The few articles you'll find out there conclude that ethanol iincreases HDL, but that's a huge leap.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Alcohol is a sovent, and small amounts of it appear to help meat-eaters dissolve fatty deposits.

 

But this is a compensatory effect, and not any way to achieve overall health.

 

Cannabis: People with longstanding hormonal and organ imbalances due to poor food and lifestyle are more likely to try and like cannabis, and more likely to suffer from mental illness before, during and after using it. They are essentially trying to fix themselves, always searching to "feel okay" with trying various substances that alter feelings, and their cannabis use is usually secondary to the real factors in their lives that do cause mental imbalances and illness.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Gerard]

My rules for not drinking too much:

 

No drinking before 6pm

No more than 1 pint beer (or equivalent) per night; 2 on 'special occasions'

No more than 5 nights per week

 

As I stick strictly to the rules, it's easy to follow them. They're probably unnecessary, but they will remain in place, just in case.

 

 

It totally contradicts wisdom.

 

I also subscribe to the Buddhist ideal:

 

"The Buddha was against any form of alcohol consumption, even in moderation, because of the effect it has on the mind."

 

In TCM alcohol is used but not for entertainment or social reasons; it's a totally different story. We are talking about Yang and increasing the properties of certain herbs via Yang.

 

Alcohol has a very profound effect on the balance of 5E. Stay away from the Western approach to alcohol if you are a serious spiritual seeker unless used in a Chinese Medicine context.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Gerard