What happened to Humanity?

[Gerard]

After reading this wonderful story (or perhaps an embellished experience by the author of Beyond the Mysterious Gate) about encountering real adepts in Chinese mountains it makes me think what is this society really about: controlling others which starts early in life with the so-called education and rules made just to keep everyone in place so Governments and Corporations can profit and keep this status quo for centuries.

 

Humans wake up! You have the potential to be greater than Gods and devas of all kinds.

 

Between Heaven (Yang) and Earth (Yin), this balance leads to the greatest potential possible, yet humans prefer to fall prey to lust, delusion and materialism.

 

Real humans story.

 

 

Thanks Heaven for Bagua, a real treasure to Humanity.

 

The subtle influence of the 5 elements, present in the body-mind is enormous, go against its rule and you die!

Edited October 26, 2015 by Gerard

[thelerner]

While tech gives us some godly powers I doubt we individually have the potential to be greater than gods.  I'll probably believe that until I see people flying around under there own power or hear a god say, wow that guy even better then me.

 

Being a mountain hermit is hard work and very boring.  It's open to anyone who wants to but its not easy.  Nor is living in a monastery, but people did it 1,000 years ago and you can do it now. 

 

Where ever you go.. rich man has rich man problems, poor man has poor man problems, monk has monk problems.   All see the grass greener on the other side,   but in truth, we all face similar problems. 

 

What happened to humanity?.. nothing.. We're much the same.. maybe more distractions and comfort these days. 

Edited October 27, 2015 by thelerner

[Daeluin]

I imagine many people happily trade the standardized violence of governments and laws to the chaotic and unpredictable violence they imagine would exist without policies and policing.

 

Desire, when mixed with intelligence, so easily influences.

 

Desire usually unfolds through lack of acceptance.

Accept where you are and there are no problems.

Fear of boredom is merely the ego demanding the continuation of desire, to sustain itself.

With acceptance comes opening to all we blind ourselves to. Boring? Hah!

 

Wild desire, wild ego.... build it as fast as we can,

hey put those people in chains to build it faster!

All created imbalanced to the five phases.

Is it any wonder we use the chain of laws to fake it?

Is it any wonder we refuse to stop?

[Jetsun]

What happened to humanity? A long time ago humanity was divided into tribes, who often used to fight each other and kill each other. Then along came religion which was initially used to control the masses to try to stop them killing each other, but it ended up dividing humanity into larger tribes. Then along came capitalism, especially after WW2 the leading capitalists lead by the work of Edward Bernays realised they could use Nazi indoctrination techniques combined with Freudian psychology theory in areas such as advertising to trick humanity into believing their primal drives could be fulfilled through consumption, which makes people docile and easily controlled, which is the situation we have now. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Jetsun

[dust]

controlling others which starts early in life with the so-called education and rules made just to keep everyone in place so Governments and Corporations can profit and keep this status quo for centuries.

 

Yes.

 

 

What happened to humanity?.. nothing.. We're much the same.. maybe more distractions and comfort these days.

 

Yes.

 

 

happily trade the standardized violence of governments and laws to the chaotic and unpredictable violence they imagine would exist without policies and policing.

Where ever you go.. rich man has rich man problems, poor man has poor man problems, monk has monk problems.   All see the grass greener on the other side,   but in truth, we all face similar problems. 

 

Sometimes, the grass is greener. The world as a whole wasn't 'better' for humans a hundred or a thousand or ten thousand years ago, but I have no doubt that there are/have been times and places that are/were far preferable (for certain people to exist in) than others. I would happily trade modern society and government for a land with fewer people, no laws, and more bears.

[Daeluin]

I get the feeling this belongs here.

From Opening the Dragon Gate:

 

Now Wang Liping asked the grand master to talk about the way of government. The Wayfarer of the Infinite said, "There are various sorts of government - by people, by laws, by principles, and by the Tao. As for government by people, in the beginning human nature was quite pure and simple, and human desires ad wishes were also extremely simple. In those times, when there were sages who were monarchs, leading the people to be responsive to heaven and earth, then a nation was naturally peaceful.

 

"As for government by law, when society had developed to the point where there was a division of labor, a social structure divided into different occupational classes, a variety of ideologies in circulation, and a mixed population living independently, desires and ambitions increased, and human nature was no longer innocent. The only way to govern them was by law, regulating things by legal measures.

 

"When there is government by law, the laws have to be reasonable; laws have to be such that they are both respected and trusted, and the law must be rigorously applied. The law is the same, furthermore, for government officials and ordinary citizens; there cannot be a dual standard. Lao-tzu says, 'That which is at rest is easy to hold; that which has not occurred is easy to plan for. What is frail is easily broken, what is vague is easily dispelled. Do it before it exists; govern it before there's disorder.' When society reached this stage it was already so complex that continuing with government by people was no longer a practical guarantee against disorder; and yet government by law was not necessarily always completely effective either, so government by principle had to develop as well.

 

"Government by principle means having both rulers and ruled understand the principles by which people can live and nations can thrive, considering these principles as law rather than taking a legislative approach to law. Then a nation is easy to govern.

 

"Government by Tao, or the Way, is on an even higher level, nurturing the people by means of the Way, returning to naturalness and going back to reality, assimilating humanity to heaven and earth, taking no artificial law as law, but being orderly without being managed. Lao-tzu said, 'The sage says, "Since I contrive nothing, the people are spontaneously civilized. Since I like calm, the people are spontaneously upright. Since I have no interests, the people spontaneously prosper. Since I have no desires, the people are spontaneously innocent."' Government without artificiality is government by the Way. This is the highest level of social development, and the highest attainment of government."

 

Stroking his long whiskers as he listened, the Cloud Roaming Wayfarer added, "Domains governed by the Way exist only i the realms of wizardry. Before the mundane world is governed by the Way, who knows how much time must pass, and how much calamity and hardship our nation and our people must endure."

 

Listening to the two ancients talk about government, and thinking of his  own personal experience, Wang Liping realized how deep the insight of the elders was, and he strengthened his own resolve to cultivate refinement even further.

[Kongming]

According to Daoism and other traditional teachings, this happened to humanity:

 

See also:

 

Kali Yuga:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga#Attributes_of_Kali_Yuga

 

Dharma Ending Age:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Ages_of_Buddhism#Latter_Day_of_the_Law

 

Hesiod's Iron Age:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_Man#Hesiod.27s_Five_Ages

 

 

The Norse notion of Ragnarok, beyond just meaning the end-times, also has the connotations of "twilight of the gods" or the decline of the gods in the life of men. Also the Abrahamic notion of the fall from paradise is a related notion of the decline of the spiritual state of mankind.

[Silent Answers]

^^ love this stuff.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Silent Answers

[zerostao]

i dont think a mountain hermit would be bored at all.

in fact a truly resourceful person is never ever bored, and surely it takes a truly resourceful person to transform into a successful mountain hermit. for an unsuccessful mountain hermit, maybe boredom creeps in..idk

lately, all i see in the fellow fellows i encounter, is their goodness, beauty, tenderness, playfulness, and great potential.

folks helping out other folks is the norm here in my neck of the woods,,

the grass is greener here, tastier too

[Gerard]

Definitively not my friend. As happy as a child, I see a lot of unhappy people in big populated areas, driving their quarter of a million dollar cars, living in mansions, having extra-marital affairs because they are not happy with their wives (and not happy with their lovers either because they soon get bored with them as well). The insatiable human lower self.

 

Like a child,

.

 

A mountain monk in Thailand.

 

There are many others as well, untold stories.

 

Best wishes to them.

[Rara]

 

Like a child,

.

 

Dude! Alert DustyBejing! In this vid, either this one or part 2 (sorry, I have no time to watch through) he talks about the lack of meaning behind the robes and hats...bang on topic to his one in another thread!

 

Great vids these.

[dust]

  that man is wonderful

[Perceiver]

Governments, corporations and "the system" aren't perfect. But they must be amended within the premises of the system - not by hopeless dreams of a country without laws or government. We need to focus on what's achievable in the next 10 years, with an eye to the next 30 years or so. We shouldn't focus on people's immature anarchist fantasies which have been around for more than a hundred fucking years and still haven't come true because such people don't understand the rules of the game that we are embedded in.

 

Don't worry man. We will change the system - eventually and gradually. And probably the digital revolution will inevitably do that by itself. But don't deny the fundamental human mechanisms of the way the world works right now. Nothing good comes from that - only futile dreams and frustrations.

 

So perhaps the real question is: What can we do right now to help that change come about?

[dust]

So perhaps the real question is: What can we do right now to help that change come about?

 

 

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

 

'The more it changes, the more it's the same thing.'

 

Karr

 

 

 

千举万变，其道一也

 

'Countless changes, the way remains the same.'

 

Xunzi

 

 

edit: To be fair, Xunzi was talking about different branches of Confucianism (despite countless changes, their overarching way/Way remains the same), but the moral of the story.. well, I think it remains the same...

Edited October 31, 2015 by dustybeijing

[Kongming]

So perhaps the real question is: What can we do right now to help that change come about?

 

In my opinion the best way to bring about real change in the outward world is to change ourselves, namely to produce more enlightened sages. The influence of the sage is what brings about real positive change and a restoration of the true order, but modern secular culture doesn't consider this an important goal at all generally, and certainly doesn't see this goal as having the possibility to bring about positive changes on a social and political level rather than just on an individual spiritual level.

 

Beyond that, if we take what the ancients said about human decline seriously that I mentioned in my previous post in this thread, we can see that the disorder of modern society is due, beyond just a loss of a sense of the sacred, to the loss of the previous hierarchical structure that existed in the ancient world and traditional societies in general. What is missing in our society is the two upper castes of traditional societies or variations on same, i.e. a true sacred caste (Brahmins, Druids, Priests, etc.) and warrior-nobility caste (Kshatriya, Knights, Samurai, etc) or, in a slightly different model, something similar to the literati nobility of old China. In other words, we just have a mercantile caste ruling us (corporations, banks) who treat man as a mere economic unit and thereby man's sacred and noble nature is suppressed, and certainly has no real presence in the mechanisms of government or society.

 

While coming from a specifically Hindu perspective, Prabhupada discusses this point here in this video (ignore the silly title of the video) starting around 3:10 in:

 

Edited October 31, 2015 by Kongming

[gendao]

It's a universal Campbellian theme in humanity, mirroring a human life cycle...

 

Things were perfectly "pure" before a "fall from grace" - whether in the Garden of Eden or of Atlantis, etc..  This was due to temptation, loss of innocence, duality, puberty, etc.  Later on, humans pine for and then seek to return to their original "pre-Heaven" paradise.  Spirituality is essentially this ongoing search - to come back full spiral, the same yet different...

Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. - Bruce Lee

Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water, after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water. - Zen saying

 

[Golden Dragon Shining]

After reading this wonderful story (or perhaps an embellished experience by the author of Beyond the Mysterious Gate) about encountering real adepts in Chinese mountains it makes me think what is this society really about: controlling others which starts early in life with the so-called education and rules made just to keep everyone in place so Governments and Corporations can profit and keep this status quo for centuries.

 

Humans wake up! You have the potential to be greater than Gods and devas of all kinds.

 

Between Heaven (Yang) and Earth (Yin), this balance leads to the greatest potential possible, yet humans prefer to fall prey to lust, delusion and materialism.

 

Real humans story.

 

 

Thanks Heaven for Bagua, a real treasure to Humanity.

 

The subtle influence of the 5 elements, present in the body-mind is enormous, go against its rule and you die!

 

Thank you for the images, very interesting, you are reading this book at present?

[Daeluin]

Governments, corporations and "the system" aren't perfect. But they must be amended within the premises of the system - not by hopeless dreams of a country without laws or government. We need to focus on what's achievable in the next 10 years, with an eye to the next 30 years or so. We shouldn't focus on people's immature anarchist fantasies which have been around for more than a hundred fucking years and still haven't come true because such people don't understand the rules of the game that we are embedded in.

 

Don't worry man. We will change the system - eventually and gradually. And probably the digital revolution will inevitably do that by itself. But don't deny the fundamental human mechanisms of the way the world works right now. Nothing good comes from that - only futile dreams and frustrations.

 

So perhaps the real question is: What can we do right now to help that change come about?

 

In my opinion, we are only truly responsible for ourselves, and when we begin to think in terms of what others should or shouldn't do, we are merely perpetuating the actions that carried us here in the first place: the idea that we can't stop pushing forward, that things must change, that things won't be OK unless we meddle.

 

I don't think you should or shouldn't do anything. I accept what you do for what it is. For myself I hope to find a way for my actions to nurture balance as much as possible without creating any disharmony with my environment. What is weak can be nurtured in subtle ways; what is strong but imbalanced may be brought into harmony gently by simply holding space for it and not feeding its strength.

 

There will be those who feel strongly that getting involved with government and influencing society through direct actions is important, and if that is what resonates most with them, then I trust them to follow where their heart leads, but I don't think they should or must take any particular action.

[Gerard]

you are reading this book at present?

 

No, not really.I just thought of those pages and wanted to let others know about it. Just the mere fact some humans have awakened to the Tao and Dharma puts you in a very good position as having extraordinary good karma already, which doesn't come easy (it's a result of you having practised already in a former life and that seed you planted in the past has manifested in this one)...just look around you at people living like shadows of the real selves, totally unaware of the bigger picture. They will awaken in due time, maybe in their next life maybe in 100 more, who knows, this whole thing is like a gigantic pinball machine: Up and down the scale. And those who live far away from society, that's their fate, maybe they were forest spirits reborn as humans in this life, who knows.

 

Practice as it were the last thing you'll ever do, as if tomorrow was the end of the world, this is the philosophy I follow.

 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Gerard

[PLB]

Humans.

A lot of ink and blood has been spilt upon the matter.

I pass.
Maybe that decision just means more ink and blood.

But who am I to pronounce judgement?