My theory on body energy and spiritual growth

[seekingbuddha]

This theory is something that has been on my mind for a few months.  I would like your opinion on this,  in case you are  older than 50 and have noticed these changes in body.  I have this opinion that as we age, our body  does not carry the abundant energy of the youth.  This in turn, makes us  sensitive enough  to notice the energy flow in the body.   When the life-force is waning (not waxing like during the teen years),  the subtle changes in body become noticeable because  the subtlety  is not masked by the abundance of  energy (that is present during youth).  

 

The same goes for spiritual growth.  I think people understand their body more as they age.  Since body and mind are connected,  once a person becomes sensitive enough to notice the subtleties of the body,  they also start noticing  the subtleties of the mind.  This in turn gives rise to spiritual thoughts and growth of mind, as one ages.  Wholesome mental factors (like love, kindness etc) start to come about because of this  decrease in body energy/vitality.   I am not saying that age is the ONLY factor  in giving rise to these changes in mind - but, it maybe a strong factor.  

 

Another fact is that as we age,  mind does not have to face the  ups/downs caused by the hormones.  For example,  there is not much disturbance in mind with sexual thoughts as one would face during teen years.  With this comes the stability of mind, giving rise to tranquility. Any other thoughts  regarding aging  and its effect on energy/mind  are good to discuss in this thread.

Edited October 31, 2015 by seekingbuddha

[seekingbuddha]

Really  surprised me that no  one was interested in this topic.  Perhaps no one is over 50 here :-)  Aging is a topic of interest only when you get up there.  Until  then,  there is a denial inside the mind  about death,  and mind refuses to contemplate death or aging..... During youth,  mind would rather contemplate  intoxicants  and sex :-)  

Edited November 9, 2015 by seekingbuddha

[Jetsun]

Well as a teenage boy you are so consumed by hormones that it is impossible to think of anything except sex, which is probably important for the continuation of the human race, so doing anything spiritual is difficult. I don't think you have to get to 50 to have a change in focus though, by your 30s hopefully sex isn't so obsessive.

[Miffymog]

I quite like the attitude in Charles Luk's book towards cultivation in old age. There is very much an attitude that its absolutely fine to leave serious spiritual cultivation until after your primary family responsibilities are over. In fact, methods of cultivation for the slightly older man are continually referred to. But myself, I'm under 50 so didn't really want to pass comment

[Taoist Texts]

Really  surprised me that no  one was interested in this topic.  Perhaps no one is over 50 here : .... During youth,  mind would rather contemplate  intoxicants  and sex :-)  

yes but after 50 the body and mind are probably  enfeebled past the point of no return.

[Chang]

yes but after 50 the body and mind are probably  enfeebled past the point of no return.

 

I trust that you are speaking for yourself and not others.

[Taoist Texts]

I trust that you are speaking for yourself and not others.

hehe;) good for you i guess;)

[Chang]

A major goal of the Taoist Arts is to keep both the body and mind robust.

 

Following dedicated practice of these arts for years many I can state in all honesty that in my sixth decade my body is more powerful than it has ever been.

 

I would like to say the same for my mind but am fearful of the thread being derailed by fellow Bums raucous replies.

[tumoessence]

Having recently turned sixty I can say that I feel healthy and energetic as I did in my thirties.  My hip joints are a little more sore but all in all I am happier and like OP suggests have spiritual thoughts more naturally.  I notice internal energy as energy free from the obsessions of youth.  I feel more complete in myself.  I am winding up of raising some kids.  I have been meditating since the age of 16 and tai chi and qi gong since 25. In spite of 30 years of construction work I am still feeling good.

[seekingbuddha]

yes but after 50 the body and mind are probably  enfeebled past the point of no return.

 

I used to think the same way, when i was 25 to 30 yrs old.   God, was i a know-it-all  in those years ? I was so stupid with the cockiness of youth.   Indeed, it is heart warming to hear the words of others with experience of age.  It is possible to re-construct health of body and mind, with some years dedicated to wholesome practices.   

[vonkrankenhaus]

As I see it, "aging" is not really so much related to chronological age.

 

It is more of a "cause and effect" issue.

 

We are the result of what we do.

 

And it is true that people who see physical decline will often shift their emphasis towards intellectual and spiritual development.

 

This is in line with normal human development and growth, because our physical existence is developing our consciousness in the same way our placenta was developing our body.

 

At full maturity, the body will fall down and die, and the consciousness will continue as a spirit body or consciousness body, a vibrational structure.

 

This is the process of dematerialization which begins at conception.

 

As conception is the endpoint of our materialization.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[LAOLONG]

The material body is yin the shen is yang. The yin with age ends. In tcm the hallow organs contain the yang. The yang in a Taoist is getting stronger with age, becoming pure yang after death.

[Synchronic]

yes but after 50 the body and mind are probably  enfeebled past the point of no return.

 

 

I'm 24 and there are 110 year old qigong/tai chi practitioners that are both more in shape and more sharp of mind than me, and judging by your attitude I'd say the same would apply to you.

[Taoist Texts]

 judging by your attitude I'd say the same would apply to you.

may be;). You see i was under the impression that the OP refers to starting after 50. I pointed out that majority of people would not have the energy for that.

 

Then the gentlemen chimed in with their stories of success about how they started well before 50. Its great but not relevant to OP.

[tumoessence]

I don't see where the OP talks about those starting after the age of 50.  I read it three times in case my age addled brain is not reading it correctly.  I still I don't think it is ever too late to start but it really depends on what kind of life one led up to older ages and the quality of teachings and teachers.

[Brian]

 

I don't see where the OP talks about those starting after the age of 50. I read it three times in case my age addled brain is not reading it correctly. I still I don't think it is ever too late to start but it really depends on what kind of life one led up to older ages and the quality of teachings and teachers.

You read it correctly.

[liminal_luke]

As far as the age to start practice, I say it´s never too late and the earlier the better. Some practices might be more suitable for certain seasons of life than others, but if someone wants to practice then why not? There´s a good practice out there whether you´re 9 or 99.

 

The OP put forward this theory that after 50 is actually better for practice because of decreasing vitality. I disagree. I think it takes energy to sense energy and the more vitality the better. Vitality doesn´t necessarily mean raging hormones and the turbulence of youth; vitality can be calm and collected, elegant and refined.

 

Liminal

Edited November 12, 2015 by liminal_luke

[seekingbuddha]

As far as the age to start practice, I say it´s never too late and the earlier the better. Some practices might be more suitable for certain seasons of life than others, but if someone wants to practice then why not? There´s a good practice out there whether you´re 9 or 99.

I agree with this.  There is something  that can be done that is appealing to the age group a person is in. Earlier is better has been recommended by  Bible as well as Buddha.

 

 

The OP put forward this theory that after 50 is actually better for practice because of decreasing vitality. I disagree. I think it takes energy to sense energy and the more vitality the better. Vitality doesn´t necessarily mean raging hormones and the turbulence of youth; vitality can be calm and collected, elegant and refined.

 

Liminal

 

What i wanted to convey is this concept i have ::  with age comes  decreasing "energy / life-force".  This decrease actually is good because it  makes  it easier for the person to sense ( to see ) the play  of the  "energies / subtleties of body+mind".   I feel  spirituality  is  somehow  correlated  to this  but  not necessarily  dependent on it.  I hope that this conveys  what i am thinking,  because  due to sickness  my mental clarity  has not been good for a week.  Lot of good ideas here, and thanks to all the posts.  

[liminal_luke]

Hi SeekingBuddha,

 

I think I understand what your saying, it´s just that that hasn´t been my experience. I agree that seeing "the play of the energies/subtleties of body+mind" is an important aspect of spirituality. For me, when my energy is strong I´m more able to do this. When my energy decreases I´m less perceptive, aware.

Edited November 12, 2015 by liminal_luke

[seekingbuddha]

Hi SeekingBuddha,

 

I think I understand what your saying, it´s just that that hasn´t been my experience. I agree that seeing "the play of the energies/subtleties of body+mind" is an important aspect of spirituality. For me, when my energy is strong I´m more able to do this. When my energy decreases I´m less perceptive, aware.

 

Or it could be the other way around ?   When you are more aware, you are able to sense the energy  around you, and when awareness  decreases,  the energy  seems  low / nonexistent.   BTW,  may i ask how old you are ?  Just curious about how age factor plays in.

[子泰]

You need to refine your energy first in order to be aware of the subtle energy. In order to refine it, you need the fuel in the first place to refine, which decreases with age. In that way, you can say that age can place a disadvantage. However, there are many methods for gaining more fuel, such as celibacy and sun practices. The mind also becomes more conditioned with age, if one does not do any cultivation. A younger mind might seem unrestrained and stupid, but they are less conditioned, which is beneficial for cultivation. However, many practices out there can decondition the mind. 

 

Best wishes.

[liminal_luke]

  BTW,  may i ask how old you are ?  Just curious about how age factor plays in.

I´m one month away from my 50th birthday.

[Miffymog]

Happy Birthday to you,

Happy Birthday to you,

Happy 50th Birthday to Liminal_Luke in one months time,

 

Happy Birthday to you

 

[seekingbuddha]

You need to refine your energy first in order to be aware of the subtle energy. In order to refine it, you need the fuel in the first place to refine, which decreases with age. In that way, you can say that age can place a disadvantage. 

 

"....in order to be aware of subtle energy",   all one needs is  increased level of awareness/mindfulness/constant practice.  This is not  dependent  on age,  but is correlated with age; because  with time, one has the time to develop these abilities slowly and steadily.  With age, the hormonal forces decrease, and one gains more control over their desire/lust/cravings, which leads to  better practice.  This is why we see most spiritual teachers on the higher end of the age spectrum rather than finding high teachers who are in their twenties.  

 

I wish someone had taught me these things when i was in teens/twenties,  in a way that i would have understood  at that time.  All i was given  was  "do this, don't  do  that"  without explanations.  Age does give perspective and wisdom.  It is one of the reasons why i spend a lot of time here, hoping that someone young  would  find this forum discussions useful,  and apply it in their life,  paying it forward.