Spontaneous qigong

[Aetherous]

Agreed.

[Spirit Ape]

I disagree!

 

Anyway its true you learn as you go untill you find something that suites you!

 

Ape

[Aetherous]

That's okay Ape we can rock without you.

[Starjumper]

I see Scotty removed his spontaneous chi kung video from youtube. I do some spontaneous chi kung and so am hoping to compare notes. I just saw the first half of Scot's video earlier and it looked like what I'll call flopping around chi kung. I'm not saying that's bad because I do it too. I also read somewhere that there is what's called a hippie dancing kind of spontaneous chi kung.

 

I would like to know if there are other types of movements that are common in the kunlun type of spontaneous movement. So far I've seen about the hippie dancing and the flopping types of movements, are there others?

 

I mean, there are, I just wonder if others use them =)

Edited November 26, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Aetherous]

Yep I took it down. I'm taking the Shuichuan class and it was discouraged to post a video of it. Elisabeth, the teacher, doesn't want people thinking it's just some sort of physical exercise.

 

I also wondered initially if I should post it...because it could be misleading to people. If someone wants to practice this, they need to let go of all movements and be moved by the qi. Watching me do it will only lead them away from correct practice...they might subconsciously imitate what I do.

 

I originally posted it because I assumed that people would understand that the movements were unique to me in that moment, and that they'll have their own.

 

About other movements that happen spontaneously:

 

I've had some other stuff too. Circle walking, vibrating hands...

 

Probably not tons of stuff, since I haven't practiced many other forms of qigong.

 

At the seminar I saw some interesting mudras done by a guy.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Scotty

[Spirit Ape]

Yeah what i thought of your video scotty it just looked like to where doing freeform or free movements going with the flow which is spontaneous but not probably what Starjumper has in mind or what i thought you was doing!

 

Starjumper tell me more about your spontaneous bro?

 

Ape

[Aetherous]

How does free movement/going with the flow differ from spontaneous qigong?

[Yoda]

Keeney in Shaking Medicine seems to be saying that there are many types of movements in spontaneous practices around the world, but that they do fit into distinct categories like slow/rhythmic motion, vigorous shaking, mudras, asanas, speaking in tongues, etc. His book gives me the impression that there may be a universal sort of progression that goes on with the motions too.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[zanshin]

I wouldn't say I flop or hippie dance, mostly swaying and circular motion, lots of spinal flexion and rotation lately, occasionally shaking- and I don't speak in tongues- I sing- tribal sounding chanting I could never concsiously think up.

[rain]

more like flowing light version of the electric boogie..

undulations really slooooooooooooooooow.........

 

started standing qigong with natural spontaneous reactions way before kunlun was introduced on this board.

never any ticks or abrupt moves, just sometimes high speed turns, swaying, loops and circles,

mostly done balanced left and right. sometimes steep stance with weightshifts between legs, the most important for me is the weightless feel, like riding on air. without it my knees wouldnt be able to take the challenge of

the moves, the counter balance-challenge, I believe this is were my body tends to reach for new experience.

 

kunlun spontaneous?..no never had it. But the kunlun systems goldenflower worked for me big time.

[Spirit Ape]

Rain,

 

Can you share your experience of Golden flower with us?

 

Ape

[Aetherous]

One of the defining things about spontaneous qigong is that one does movements that one would not be capable of, or think up, or have the urge to do from the conscious mind.

 

So I may, for example, whip my arm back and forth at enormous speed and velocity for a long time, and feel no fatigue from it whatsoever, even though it is creating quite a breeze.

 

Likewise, endless rapid kicking movements. Stretching of the hands into mudras of course, and spinal stretches that one normally wouldnt attempt.

 

The point being that the qi is making the moves, and it transcends the mind's limited notions of what the body can or should do.

 

I totally agree. It's hard for me personally to let go of conscious movements. There is spontaneous a lot but sometimes it's me. It's something for me to strive towards.

[Spirit Ape]

Scotty,

 

What you are doing is a type of Spontaneous movement which i also do with some of my own practice but trying Jennys level 1 my body was doing spontaneous movements completely different stuff i couldnt do using mind which was really fun and weird looking from the outside. Compared to my own practice i feel more grounded and control as i move and kind of feeling im unwinding the body from all tensions and worries then i seem to lose myself and go into a trance. With Jennys i was bouncing around seated and jerking, snapping in waves then i actually threw up, i remember Mantra68 saying i was purging my body thats why i threw up, I didnt get any bliss or anything just shaking and bouncing and then vomit!

 

my 2 cents!

Ape

[Aetherous]

It's all the same if you let go.

[Desert Eagle]

Now I'm still at a crossroads and haven't done much with kunlun and I could not tarvel to USA for the seminar. So which one is recommended more: KAP or shuichuan? both of them have distance transmission but does KAP have spontaneous qigong? (PM's are welcome.)

 

I already have a lot of material to go through in addition to the forums and Trunk's site. I'm leaving my job soon and hope to become a real TaoBum.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Desert Eagle

[Yoda]

PM Vajrasattva about that. He works with spontaneous, but I don't know if it's in the course

[Desert Eagle]

Thanks Yoda, I emailed him and got the answer that they do have spontaneous qigong as part of KAP.

[Starjumper]

Yep I took it down. I'm taking the Shuichuan class and it was discouraged to post a video of it. Elisabeth, the teacher, doesn't want people thinking it's just some sort of physical exercise.

 

I also wondered initially if I should post it...because it could be misleading to people. If someone wants to practice this, they need to let go of all movements and be moved by the qi. Watching me do it will only lead them away from correct practice...they might subconsciously imitate what I do.

 

I originally posted it because I assumed that people would understand that the movements were unique to me in that moment, and that they'll have their own.

 

About other movements that happen spontaneously:

 

I've had some other stuff too. Circle walking, vibrating hands...

 

Probably not tons of stuff, since I haven't practiced many other forms of qigong.

 

At the seminar I saw some interesting mudras done by a guy.

[Starjumper]

Yeah what i thought of your video scotty it just looked like to where doing freeform or free movements going with the flow which is spontaneous but not probably what Starjumper has in mind or what i thought you was doing!

 

Starjumper tell me more about your spontaneous bro?

 

There are many types of spontaneous chi kung. There are some that are faster and some are slower that are sort of on a scale. The movements like flopping around I do not think of as chi kung. When I think of or see the flopping around it is indicative of excessive thinking, emotional disturbance, spirit possession, this does not fit under my deffinitio of chi kung. Flopping around is of the lowest common denominator. I expect it to be the kind of thing someone in a seminar would do when they are encouraged to move spontaneously but are a bit shy, then others see this and think it's the thing to do.

 

Hippie dancing is more like chi kung but it is also a type of releasing or 'getting the kinks out' type of movement. In other words, it may be powered by chi and be spontaneous, but I think it works more on a physical level rather being a chi cultivation kind of practice. In other words, it uses chi instead of produces chi. This is common and it can be useful for health, when you build up some excess chi then it makes you want to release it with rapid movements.

 

Yoda mentioned some of the other types of movements, like shaking, or mudras (mudras is NOT a Taoist word and I'm not sure what it means. Does it mean a body posture or just a hand posture?)

 

I just wanted to say here in this thread that it has been mentioned that for chi kung masters, that 90% of their practice is spontaneous. That rings true, I just wanted to mention here that the spontaneous chi kung they do is NOT like flopping around or hippie dancing. Perhaps a bit of that is done from time to time, but the majority of it is different.

 

So I guess the big anal thing I'm trying to do with this post is point out that what you are taught is spontaneous chi kung in seminars is nothing like the spontaneous chi kung that more advanced practitioners do, not at all. I just hate to tell what it is for free when there are all these teachers teaching wimpy chi kung for big bucks. Probably one of them will start teaching what I say and charging for that too.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

One of the defining things about spontaneous qigong is that one does movements that one would not be capable of, or think up, or have the urge to do from the conscious mind.

 

So I may, for example, whip my arm back and forth at enormous speed and velocity for a long time, and feel no fatigue from it whatsoever, even though it is creating quite a breeze.

 

Likewise, endless rapid kicking movements. Stretching of the hands into mudras of course, and spinal stretches that one normally wouldnt attempt.

 

The point being that the qi is making the moves, and it transcends the mind's limited notions of what the body can or should do.

 

I notice lately a lot of circling going on, so my knees, ankles, wrists, shoulders, hips are all rotating whilst the spine is undulating and pulling the organs in and up and into a roll over movement, an internal massage. Like Belly dancing.

 

One of the things I realised is that belly dancing originates from internal energy work. I realised this because my spontaneous was a lot like free form belly dancing.Sometimes.

 

Starjumper, I dont feel that the spontaneous I do from KL is any different from spontaneous I have done before, sans KL.

 

I have never, btw, stayed entirely in a seated position whilst doing it. There is also a fair bit of warm up with jogging on the spot and shaking, and opening of the kua.

 

Fun, innit.

 

Cat it sounds like your spontaneous chi kung is doing some good things for you, and a lot of the movements you are describing are things we do in my chi kung, including the kicking while seated and all the other stuff, so I know it's all very good. (we do some seated exercises before the sitting meditation, which is after the standing exercises. In teaching my chi kung we do not teach spontaneous movement, that is left for the student to explore at home, at their own whim. However, we do teach in a way that encourages formlessness so it teaches spontaneous in a way. We also do a bit of running or prancing in place at the ending, cooling down, part of the practice, after the seated meditation.

 

Whether spontaneous movements are consuming or producing chi, in general, depends on how fast the movements are done.

 

I find it interesting that you do some spontaneous chi kung in a seated position.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Aetherous]

People should surrender to whatever happens. If it's "lowest common denominator" flopping around, that's what they need. If they do anything but surrender, then it's not spontaneous.

[Starjumper]

People should surrender to whatever happens. If it's "lowest common denominator" flopping around, that's what they need. If they do anything but surrender, then it's not spontaneous.

 

I agree, and my use of the term 'lowest common denominator' wasn't quite right and gave the wrong impression.

 

If people need to do the flopping around, then that's fine. I guess a better way to put it is that it's the lowest 'grade' of spontaneous. It is more for getting rid of sick chi at the beginning level. Hippie dancing is a higher level, and it also gets rid of sick chi, it is also more like chi kung. Flopping around is a release but it is not chi kung in my book, not even close. Hippie dancing is a type of chi kung.

 

Also, I would like to put forward the proposition that flopping around primarily, and hippie dancing possibly, is NOT spontaneous, not at all. I think what happens is you guys see other beginners doing it in the seminar and then you copy it, it's the blind leading the blind. NOT chi kung.

 

Do you think people do the same kinds of spontaneous chi kung after they get rid of their sick chi and have cultivated enough to glow in the dark? I hope not. It's completely different and it's a thing of beauty to behold.

 

So the point I wanted to make is: Some people have said that masters do spontaneous chi kung 90% of the time and so you floppers and hippies think your doing something that masters do. Well, please erase that thought from your minds because it's the hugest clock of clap. that's all.

[Yoda]

a fellow bum put me on to this vid:

 

http://shakingmedicine.com/bushmen/video.php

[Aetherous]

SJ,

 

Also, I would like to put forward the proposition that flopping around primarily, and hippie dancing possibly, is NOT spontaneous, not at all. I think what happens is you guys see other beginners doing it in the seminar and then you copy it, it's the blind leading the blind. NOT chi kung.

 

That may be the case for some people. I would agree that it's not qigong in that case, if they're copying movements. But if it's spontaneous movement, then it's spontaneous qigong. In my case, not that it matters, I can say certainly that I'm doing spontaneous qigong...because I'm dealing not just with flopping around, vibrating, circle walking, hippie dancing...but I also am perceiving the energy that results from it. I am certainly not at a level beyond beginner, and I haven't gotten rid of my sick qi...but it's still spontaneous qigong.

 

Do you think people do the same kinds of spontaneous chi kung after they get rid of their sick chi and have cultivated enough to glow in the dark? I hope not. It's completely different and it's a thing of beauty to behold.

 

I have no idea what people tend to do at higher levels. But yeah I would assume that things would be different.