Spontaneous qigong

[三江源]

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Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[Ya Mu]

 

I just wanted to say here in this thread that it has been mentioned that for chi kung masters, that 90% of their practice is spontaneous. That rings true, I just wanted to mention here that the spontaneous chi kung they do is NOT like flopping around or hippie dancing. Perhaps a bit of that is done from time to time, but the majority of it is different.

 

So I guess the big anal thing I'm trying to do with this post is point out that what you are taught is spontaneous chi kung in seminars is nothing like the spontaneous chi kung that more advanced practitioners do, not at all. I just hate to tell what it is for free when there are all these teachers teaching wimpy chi kung for big bucks. Probably one of them will start teaching what I say and charging for that too.

 

+1

Just because some use the words doesn't make it the same. The Higher Level Stillness-Movement uses higher-level vibrational patterns and looks nothing like what I see some of you folks describing as spontaneous qigong. Sometimes, initially, when a student thinks they are supposed to be doing something we see that sort of jerking around movement and indeed there can be some release. But the true energy of the Stillness-Movement is usually much deeper spirals with vibrational shifts. Intensely energizing and life-changing, usually bumping up a healers abilities by an order of magnitude.

[Starjumper]

The hippie dancing is not the same thing as what you are speaking about, Starjumper. Not the same thing that I was describing.

 

It is useful that you point out the distinction. I think they came to be lumped together here in the general discussion about spontaneous movement, freeing the body, loosening.

 

 

Yes Cat, the movements you described are not like the hippie dancing that I was picturing. I used to be a goood hippie dancer myself anyway so I know what hippie dancing is. What you described as your spontaneous movement is a good type of chi kung and it's elements are in my chi kung also.

 

You mention spontaneous movement but the thread is titled spontaneous chi kung, and part of what I wanted to do is make a distinction between spontaneous movement, spontaneous chi kung that consumes chi but helps get rid of sick chi, and spontaneous chi kung that cultivates more chi. I'll admit I didn't read the first part of the thread, but the impression I got from what I did read is that people think that when they are doing the spontaneous movements like like flopping around, hippie dancing, or the movements you describe, that they are doing what the masters do 90% of the time with their practices, and that is a mistake for people to think that. I wonder if this mistake is due to what they are told by teachers, which is then misleading people, or if it was a jumping to conclusion by students?

 

To me, spontaneous chi kung is the same as formless chi kung, and to arrive at the formless one must study the forms first. I imagine the spontaneous chi kung that you describe, Cat, is more fruitful and elaborate because you have more experience with moving chi kung.

 

Also, no one answered my question about mudras. I had the impression that mudra meant only a hand posture, but I wonder if people use it to mean a whole body posture??? What is the meaning of this non Taoist word, MUDRA, that is tossed around on this Taoist forum?

Edited November 29, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Xienkula1]

One meaning of the sanskrit word mudra is "seal."

Edited November 29, 2008 by Xienkula1

[Yoda]

I think of mudras as hand positions and asanas as body positions. I would have thought that Taoists would have mudras and asanas in their art, drills, etc but I could be wrong about that.

[Starjumper]

I think of mudras as hand positions and asanas as body positions. I would have thought that Taoists would have mudras and asanas in their art, drills, etc but I could be wrong about that.

 

They do, and they call it meditation, or zhan zuang =) Not mudras or asanas, but better

Edited November 29, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Spirit Ape]

Ma Yu,

 

Do you mean spirialing like a Dragon?

 

Ape

[Ya Mu]

Ma Yu,

 

Do you mean spirialing like a Dragon?

 

Ape

 

Deep natural spirals are energy patterns as seen at higher vibrational levels. But they are multi-dimensional so think of this as more of a dimensional spiral. Kinda hard to put in linear terms.

[Spirit Ape]

No, i totally here what you are saying cause this is what my Spirit Dragon Nei Gung is about thats why i asked if it spirialed like a dragon or moving in circles and u just go so deep into yourself that u lose yourself, well that is what happens with me!

 

We have movements and then formless or spontaneous movement....

[Desert Eagle]

a fellow bum put me on to this vid:

 

http://shakingmedicine.com/bushmen/video.php

 

Thanks I saw it all and it caused me to shake with them in the night time shaking session, they said there is a rope from a great god in a village in the sky which reminds me of a verse in the quran: "And hold fast, all together by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves" s3:v103

it is not clear what is exactly meant by the rope of god among Muslim scholars, but in that video it says that it is a literal rope.

[Ya Mu]

No, i totally here what you are saying cause this is what my Spirit Dragon Nei Gung is about thats why i asked if it spirialed like a dragon or moving in circles and u just go so deep into yourself that u lose yourself, well that is what happens with me!

 

We have movements and then formless or spontaneous movement....

 

Sounds like it could be similar; in your system does a teacher project qi to you (and if you are a teacher do you) in order to "attune" or "awaken"" the student to particular energetics that initiate the movements?

[Yoda]

Thanks I saw it all and it caused me to shake with them in the night time shaking session, they said there is a rope from a great god in a village in the sky which reminds me of a verse in the quran: "And hold fast, all together by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves" s3:v103

it is not clear what is exactly meant by the rope of god among Muslim scholars, but in that video it says that it is a literal rope.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Keeney is sort of the Hugh Heffner of spontaneous chikung. It's my understanding that it is literally a non-physical rope.

[Aetherous]

SJ,

 

I agree that my spontaneous practice isn't up to par. My energy is still unbalanced for sure. I'd love to learn your system if I were closer to where you are, since it seems really good.

 

In the meantime, I will keep working at Shuichuan and see what happens.

[Yoda]

I agree that my spontaneous practice isn't up to par.

 

Scotty,

 

If you were practicing with those Bushmen would you fit in? Then what more could you ask for in your practice?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Xienkula1]

Scotty,

 

If you were practicing with those Bushmen would you fit in? Then what more could you ask for in your practice?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

Good point. The Bushman clearly show spontaneous practice doesn't have to look like tai chi and its not about form, its about opening to a transcendental higher consciousness that connects you with yourself, all hearts and all beings and all planes. So don't judge your practice, whatever it looks like is not important, it's what is happening on the inside that is important.

[Starjumper]

SJ,

 

I agree that my spontaneous practice isn't up to par. My energy is still unbalanced for sure. I'd love to learn your system if I were closer to where you are, since it seems really good.

 

In the meantime, I will keep working at Shuichuan and see what happens.

 

Hi Scotty, I didn't mean to imply that about your spontaneous practice. Its just that I see what seem like misleading statements, people saying misleading things because they appear to have been misled by teachers or by them assuming incorrect things, and poor widdle Starjumper gets all distressed about such things. Maybe I'm the only one who is misled by doing the assuming. In this case it was the assumption that people are doing what masters do most of the time with their spontaneous practice. Is this something that your teachers have implied or is it an idea some student came up with and others like it because it sounds so good or ... ?

 

Shaking is another type of spontaneous chi kung that is included in Taoist practices, whether spontaneous or not, which is much more spontaneous when you are cold =) and although it is a little piece of the broader practice that masters use it is still just a little piece.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Guest winpro07]

everything that can be observed, or considered is far from the truth.

letting go means having no practice, and no ability. The ego mind cannot

conceive of acting without for thought, or intent. This practice is the root of formless.

It is Alchemy, not chi, It's beginning is not in the body, not in the being. It is not from this world.

It is the truth far removed form all argument. This alchemy breaths. This alchemy is love

[Spirit Ape]

If formless was the only answer then why is there thousands of Daoist masters teaching taiji and internal cultivation systems. You need to have both just like internal and external training methods. Form is a connection and body and formless is letting go of all. Even the African tribes have there Ritual dances and customs which is considered like doing Taiji or kung fu forms which is Form. There shaking is formless so see you all need both!

 

Ape

[Guest winpro07]

i was refering to ego

[SiliconValley]

I've been on other "metaphysical" type forums and witnessed a population of people that i'd describe as zealously desirous of being different, and those who seem excessively poetic in their vague descriptions of their knowledge. This forum seems to have a nice balance of objectivity, humility and just plain old being human as well as a bit of awkwardness, which can be a real delight.

 

[White Wolf]

Has anyone else learnt Shuichuan since?

[Aetherous]

Update: I'm not a fan of Shuichuan, but to each their own.

[altiora]

Has anyone else learnt Shuichuan since?

 

 

I don't know what you mean by "since" but I practiced it for over 2 years. I have met the teacher in person: she's a talented healer and I had some interesting experiences.

 

While I don't dare doubt the transmission she gave to initiate one into the practice -- I certainty felt it -- my problem with the exercises we were required to practice. Truly spontaneous qigong is actually really difficult, because of the propensity of the ego/mind to interfere. My first qigong teacher told me that, and after practicing I have to agree. My feeling with doing these exercises is was this the qi, or was this me engineering the result I wanted? I'm sure if I had a life time of meditation under my belt, I might have been able to answer that question. But leaving doubts in my mind, I desisted from practice.

 

Now I wonder why I was into spontaneous qigong at all. I mean just what is so wrong, or boring, with just standing still? There are moments where my body and mind alignment settle into this stillness and equilibrium and I glimpse with great clarity how the energy in my body and around me is interacting. When that happens, it leaves my most wild spontaneous qigong sessions in the dust.

Edited July 29, 2010 by altiora

[Starjumper]

If formless was the only answer then why is there thousands of Daoist masters teaching taiji and internal cultivation systems. You need to have both just like internal and external training methods. Form is a connection and body and formless is letting go of all. Even the African tribes have there Ritual dances and customs which is considered like doing Taiji or kung fu forms which is Form. There shaking is formless so see you all need both!

 

Ape

 

It is clearly stated in the tai chi classics (part of the Taoist cannon), that one must first study the forms in order to eventually arrive at the formless. Arriving at the formless comes from knowing all the forms and it takes decades to learn them. What's that sying in the TTC?: "Everyday, in in reaching for ----- one acquires more knowledge, everyday in approaching the Way one gives up knowledge" Knowledge is not wisdom. Formless chi kung is not shaking.

 

Shaking is the same, not formless, there are many many specific forms of shaking that are not formless. Those who say their shaking is formless do so out of ignorance because they are simply copying what they have seen others do, which is a very limited form of it. Spastic flopping around is not chi kung! Nor is it Nei kung.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Starjumper7

[rain]

I don't know what you mean by "since" but I practiced it for over 2 years. I have met the teacher in person: she's a talented healer and I had some interesting experiences.

 

While I don't dare doubt the transmission she gave to initiate one into the practice -- I certainty felt it -- my problem with the exercises we were required to practice. Truly spontaneous qigong is actually really difficult, because of the propensity of the ego/mind to interfere. My first qigong teacher told me that, and after practicing I have to agree. My feeling with doing these exercises is was this the qi, or was this me engineering the result I wanted? I'm sure if I had a life time of meditation under my belt, I might have been able to answer that question. But leaving doubts in my mind, I desisted from practice.

 

Now I wonder why I was into spontaneous qigong at all. I mean just what is so wrong, or boring, with just standing still? There are moments where my body and mind alignment settle into this stillness and equilibrium and I glimpse with great clarity how the energy in my body and around me is interacting. When that happens, it leaves my most wild spontaneous qigong sessions in the dust.

 

m.hm

.

Edited July 29, 2010 by rain