mopai

[Jetsun]

It is my understanding Kosta still receives hundreds of emails a week from lunatics. I think Kosta is burnt out having to deal with the insanity. I know my mentor and friend morepie has this same problem. He has forwarded me emails so crazy I question how these people haven't wound up in insane asylums. Obviously Kosta didn't have this attitude when he wrote his books, but he became progressively more cynical as time went on. I think Kosta started out with the attitude that there were lots of other people like him, intelligent, rational, serious individuals, and reality has changed his stance. This is also the vibe I get from morepie.

That is understandable and explains why he doesn't teach others. But it doesn't explain why he doesn't practice it himself any more.

[KenBrace]

That is understandable and explains why he doesn't teach others. But it doesn't explain why he doesn't practice it himself any more.

 

He quite because John Chang kicked him out.

[voidisyinyang]

Yuan qi is the same as jing 精 and is stored in the LDT(or kidney if the lower dantian is not forged), not the heart. It is also what results from compressing qi 气 and is the only way to store and utilize the cultivated qi. No matter how much qi you gather if it's not stored as jing it will be useless. This transforms it into zhen qi which acts in a similar way to a wave and can be physically felt by the practitioner.The tehniques of emission vary from school to school just as the preponderance of using nei qi(basicaly no feeling) and wei qi(feels like electricity).Some schools don't emit it at all or only some stundents are taught how to emit(Mo pai seems to be in this category as only one student per generation "reaches level 4"). This is used to access the upper dantian to retrieve/ master of  the Shen 神 & Ling灵. Without the aid of real internal power it is almost imposible to achieve this(it probably would take more than a lifetime for the average person).Once the immortal Ling  灵  is mastered there is no need for "qi to power up your shen" and in fact there is no need for qi altogether.. This is just one of those misunderstandings that Kosta started with his book. The LING IS THE EMPTINESS (as in jing to qi, qi to shen, shen to emptiness). It is a piece of tao, and is called emptiness because it seems to both be and not be part of this world. Having control over it is called enlightenment in taoism(btw, it's the same in budhism , only the terminology differs) as it stops reincarnation and illusion. No offence to you but the only things more ridiculous then what I read about Mo Pai is the things I read from people studying Taoist Yoga. 

 

Wang Liping says it takes 6 hours of full lotus a day for a year to restore Yuan Jing in the lower tan tien.

 

Taoist Yoga says that Yuan Qi is emitted out of the pineal gland and any thoughts of reproduction cause the Yuan Qi to shoot down the spine where it is turned into reproductive fluid via the yin qi of the Ocean of Qi, under the lower tan tien.

 

So that is how the Yuan Qi is used up by loss of jing energy but the Yuan Qi originates out of the right side of the heart and manifests out of the pineal gland whereas Yuan Shen manifests out of the eyes and originates out of the left side of the heart.

 

By "turning the light around" you unite the yuan shen and yuan qi.

 

Now please tell me what you disagree with about what I wrote - so we can have a nice friendly rational conversation to try to figure out what I am misunderstanding.

 

You have said I have wrong views from Taoist Yoga - please be more specific. thanks.

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited November 27, 2015 by TheDustAutumn

[voidisyinyang]

I am sorry if I offended you in any way. It was certainly not my intention. All I had to say about the subject I already said in the few posts I made. As far as I am aware jing is usualy stored in the kidneys(the Chinese version which inclused the whole reproductive and excretory system). Once a large enough amount of it is stored, the lower dantian activates(or is forged if you prefer) to store the excess. As far as I'm aware this is the yuan qi that master Liping speaks of in relation to finishing the foundation..At higher levels of practice the whole body begins to store jing. I myself am unaware that a for someone who is not a master it is found in other places or that there is any requirement to search for it in the heart. 

Again, as far as I know, the pineal gland is actually the third eye and is responsible for the spiritual evolution of the human being. It usually start to calcify at around 14-16yo. The practices that work with the Ling or Shen like the Secret of the golden flower are, in physical terms, about the pineal gland and it's decalcification so that the spiritual evolution of the individual can continue.This is also the source of the "superpowers" like x-ray vision or remote viewing. Again I am not aware of it being capable of creating jing herself. It is more like an antena that links us with the rest of the universe.

In my opinion, Taoist Yoga is more of a journal of an advanced practitioner than a manual, not something that should be replicated in practice as a lot of those experiences tend to be individual(while others, of course, are the same for all). it is also overly complicated as far as terminology. I will say what I said before: For progress the assistance of a master in indispensable

 

O.K. I appreciate you clarifying things.

 

Here is my understanding from studying Taoist YOga: alchemy and immortality.

 

The Yuan Qi increases the Yuan Shen.

 

Now combining that with also my study of how to increase Yuan Jing - I have a blog post that gives many details from other alchemy books also - the Yuan Jing is increase by the cerebrospinal fluid having fused the Yuan Qi and Yuan Shen energy and this flows out of the roof of the mouth as the "ambrosia" - which then goes into the stomach and is then absorbed into the lower tan tien.

 

That is why it is crucial not to eat a half hour after practice - as the increased heat in the belly is actually this swallowing of the ambrosia and that is how yuan jing is restored - via the yuan qi increasing the yuan shen and then that alchemical fusion combining with the cerebrospinal fluid which overflows out of the skull cavity via the sinus passages. I had to corroborate that with Western science.

 

So that is also explained in the Taoist Yoga alchemy book - the Yuan Qi increases the Yuan Shen which then as per the small universe cycles down the front channel - to increase the Yuan Jing. This makes sense because the "heart's fire" is the Yin qi energy that is connected to the Yuan Shen.

 

So after first in alchemy you have to fuse the Green Dragon with the White Tiger (the liver and lungs) - and after the yin qi energy is build up then the lower tan tien turns into the Red Dragon as the manifestation of the middle tan tien - which is the first half of the training - the  Tai Chi is experienced as it just takes a little bit of Yuan Qi to then manifest the Yuan Shen out of the pineal gland. But this is still psychic energy as the lunar yuan shen energy that is using a little bit of yuan qi fusion as the carrier signal energy so to speak.

 

that is why at first you need to  make sure to envelop the Yuan Shen inside the Yuan Qi in the lower tan tian before real astral travel takes place - or long distance healing - which is actually a spacetime vortex. That's why Taoist Yoga in chapter 11 explains a person will experience dizziness if they overuse their Yuan Shen energy - going out of the pineal gland via that initial Tai Chi fusion of Yuan Qi and Yuan Shen.

 

So then the 2nd half of enlightenment begins via the immortal breathing.

 

I did achieve this first half of enlightenment but I had not studied the Taoist Yoga book enough so I didn't understand what went wrong when I had the spacetime vortex dizziness - but even the original qigong master said he had this happen to him once when he did too much healing and so he had overused his Yuan Qi energy in his lower tan tien which is the force for the Yuan Shen energy. He is able to make continuous Yuan Shen spirit healing energies - to heal individual people - but each one is powered by the Yuan Qi.

 

Now if you just keep building up the Yuan Qi and Yuan Shen fusion in the lower tan tien then you can create a Yang Shen which is then a full cycle back into yin jing energy.

 

there's different types of jing energy. there's reproductive fluid, there's yin jing and then yang jing which is yin qi. Build up the yin qi to make yang qi and focus on the Emptiness to build up the yuan qi. The yuan qi increases the yuan shen - build up the yuan shen enough and it's like gamma ray energy that collides to create new matter as the yuan jing - or yang shen.

[Jetsun]

He quite because John Chang kicked him out.

 

So he sees no value in continuing the practices of the lower levels already taught to him when he isn't part of the official school, I would have thought he may have continued them if they are the only real techniques going.

 

What is the hope of those who practice the lower levels from manuals and the internet, that they will be accepted into the school at some point in the future?

[voidisyinyang]

To connect what I said back to Mopai - on my blog I posted an image of John Chang meditating with his right hand over his heart and his left hand over the lower tan tien - that fits with Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality which states that the left hand is Yuan Shen - yin qi lunar energy and the right hand is Yuan Qi energy of the upper body.

 

So with the yin qi going down the front of the body via the small universe - what is happening is the left eye is Yuan Shen and the left side vagus nerve goes to the right side of the heart which is the source of Yuan Qi - as the Yuan Qi builds up it increases the yuan shen and the yin qi energy which travels via the vagus nerve to the right side of the heart to increase the yuan qi - which then pulsates over to the left side of the heart to increase the yuan shen. So you get another level of yuan qi-yuan shen union in the heart - which is really the source of the mind.

 

Then that energy is focused back into the lower tan tien.

 

So for example John Chang says how to communicate with the spirits he creates just a yin energy field - he is referring actually to the Yuan Shen energy field. The heart's fire is the yin qi of the yuan shen - that is the psychic energy and that is the energy level of ghosts - as ghosts here are on EArth have their lower emotional yin qi energy that powers the Yuan Shen. That's also why overusing the yuan shen energy turns people into "ghost immortals."

 

So again with the small universe when you focus your mind as visualization then you are focusing your yuan shen to increase the yin qi energy on those nodes - and then you build up the yin qi energy that is stored in the lower tan tien until it turns back into yuan qi energy.

 

This is also why Taoist Yoga says if someone is young and has a pure heart then they can quickly achieve the 1st half of enlightenment - because they have lots of yuan qi energy left and their yuan shen is pure so it is  easily "turned back around" to the yuan qi source of the energy.

 

The explosion that John Chang talks about in the lower tan tien is only after the yin qi and yuan shen energy fills up the lower tan tien - and remember that yin qi is yang jing energy. So if the yin qi energy of the lower tan tien is filled up then when focusing your mind on the lower tan tien - that focuses the yuan qi energy on the yin qi which creates the explosion as the fusion of the yuan shen and yuan qi.

 

For example the original qigong master says whenever he focuses in the Emptiness he can see the yuan shen shining out of his lower tan tien.

Edited November 23, 2015 by conspirachi

[Miffymog]

Again, as far as I know, the pineal gland is actually the third eye and is responsible for the spiritual evolution of the human being. It usually start to calcify at around 14-16yo. The practices that work with the Ling or Shen like the Secret of the golden flower are, in physical terms, about the pineal gland and it's decalcification so that the spiritual evolution of the individual can continue.

 

I'm sure we've had some other discussions here about how the LDT can calcify too. As far as 'Taoist Yoga' is concerned, some of the physical consequences it mentions are simply wrong. Well, I'm pretty certain if you follow the practices described, if all your adult teeth have fallen out, you wont get new ones growing. The point here is that some of the comments are more metaphorical than real. I tend to interpret the pineal gland 'calcifying' in a similar light.

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited November 27, 2015 by TheDustAutumn

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[TheDustAutumn]

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Edited November 27, 2015 by TheDustAutumn

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[flowing hands]

Actually 'Jing' is the culmination of all that one has inherited from your fore fathers and Mothers, it is your store of energy that can be enhanced or damaged by various ways of living, eating and exercise. The pineal gland has nothing to do with the third eye. The root of the third eye is in us all, it is only if we are taught how to develop this and send energy to this area to make it work for us. We must first be taught how to 'open' the third eye and how to cultivate it. It is a specialised spiritual practice that requires specific nei gong techniques. Despite to the contrary belief of some on this forum, Mao Shun have practiced many different nei gong techniques for thousands of years. I myself have practiced many of these techniques and the higher level ones do not involve any sort of meditation. Many techniques are hinted at in the DDJ.

[MooNiNite]

So he sees no value in continuing the practices of the lower levels already taught to him when he isn't part of the official school, I would have thought he may have continued them if they are the only real techniques going.

 

What is the hope of those who practice the lower levels from manuals and the internet, that they will be accepted into the school at some point in the future?

 

Kosta knows that Mo Pai isn't the only way. It is both in his book and in Jim's book. 

[MooNiNite]

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Deleted. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by MooNiNite

[dayzhaze]

That is understandable and explains why he doesn't teach others. But it doesn't explain why he doesn't practice it himself any more.

 

Because he has no more instruction to follow, he has gone as far as he can go without John Chang giving him further instruction.

 

The point of the beginning levels, is to fill, compress, and make the LDT mobile.  Once this is done, if further instruction is not provided your training stops.  I am certain Kosta still meditates, you can't forget what you experience on the other side in actual meditation,and you will always want to return, the desire to return to this is even stronger than basal biological drives. However there is no point in continuing training he has already completed.

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

Wow. This is truly funny. Your alarm needs to be reset badly. But again you are free to believe what you want about who I am. And about the mishmashing- I urge you to go to a real master and see if I mish-mash things up.No point in arguing with someone on the internet. Years ago when I first got a glimpse of Mo Pai I actually got away from my computer and went to China&USA in search of true knowledge and teachers. It cost me a lot in both time(i'm from Europe) and money but i believe it was worth it. I have been to several seminars of master LIping and I also met Waysun Liao, Chunyi Lin and more. Does that mean I understand perfectly the theory behind the practice and I cannot make mistakes? No. But even so I have the benefits of a master who checks if I mess something up. People like you and MPG sit and think you can puzzle together and guess at an art that's been developed over 3 millennia from behind your computer screen. And worst then that, believe you are qualified to teach other those tehniques even against the direct wishes of the lineage masters. You are arrogant, egotistical and foolish in my opinion. And BTW I truly believe that MPG's views and the practices he endorses as "the real way of practicing" to be incorrect and potentially lead to sickness. Not to mention that there are very few things I dislike more than a dogmatic, close minded person.Hope this explains why I "speak badly" of your guru. Move along now and stop bothering me. I thank you in advance.

 

"People like you and MPG sit and think you can puzzle together and guess at an art that's been developed over 3 millennia from behind your computer screen."

 

All Morepie and the other space pandas do is quote Kosta and Jim.  Kosta and Jim both know and understood what John Chang taught them.   The other groups like SifuRel and SonOfTheGods invent their own practices and call them mopai.  

 

"And worst then that, believe you are qualified to teach other those tehniques"

 

The first thing Morepie said to me was "I'm a student, not a teacher" and "I will force you to answer your own questions by reading Jim and Kosta's work".  All he did was point out relevant sections of the book, make me ask questions, and answer them via the books, and other material written by Jim and Kosta.  Never once did he try to teach me anything they didn't say.

 

"You are arrogant, egotistical and foolish in my opinion."

 

Not that it matters as no one will care but this is a direct personal attack on Wells.

 

"And BTW I truly believe that MPG's views and the practices he endorses as "the real way of practicing" to be incorrect and potentially lead to sickness."

 

What you fail to see is Morepie doesn't have a dog in the fight.  He quotes Jim and Kosta and that's it.  IF anyone is wrong it is Jim and Kosta.  I will trust anything they say over your opinion any day, as they were actual students of John Chang.

 

"Not to mention that there are very few things I dislike more than a dogmatic, close minded person."

 

That's not who my mentor is at all.  He is more open minded than anyone I've ever met, he just requires good evidence to believe in something.  This is what reasonable people do, ask for evidence.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[dayzhaze]

Wang Liping says it takes 6 hours of full lotus a day for a year to restore Yuan Jing in the lower tan tien.

 

Taoist Yoga says that Yuan Qi is emitted out of the pineal gland and any thoughts of reproduction cause the Yuan Qi to shoot down the spine where it is turned into reproductive fluid via the yin qi of the Ocean of Qi, under the lower tan tien.

 

So that is how the Yuan Qi is used up by loss of jing energy but the Yuan Qi originates out of the right side of the heart and manifests out of the pineal gland whereas Yuan Shen manifests out of the eyes and originates out of the left side of the heart.

 

By "turning the light around" you unite the yuan shen and yuan qi.

 

Now please tell me what you disagree with about what I wrote - so we can have a nice friendly rational conversation to try to figure out what I am misunderstanding.

 

You have said I have wrong views from Taoist Yoga - please be more specific. thanks.

 

"You have said I have wrong views from Taoist Yoga - please be more specific. thanks."

 

I wonder if Well's point is that you have the wrong views from it, or that rather it itself is a false teaching.  I would think if Taoist Yoga was for real, that it would lead to beings like John Chang.  If so we aren't seeing good evidence of it.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[dayzhaze]

So he sees no value in continuing the practices of the lower levels already taught to him when he isn't part of the official school, I would have thought he may have continued them if they are the only real techniques going.

 

What is the hope of those who practice the lower levels from manuals and the internet, that they will be accepted into the school at some point in the future?

 

I have no doubt Kosta still meditates, but there is no point in him continuing training he has already completed.  John has given him no more instruction, so he cannot continue.   What you are saying to me sounds like, Kosta replaced the engine in his car, but because he can't find a transmission for it, he should instead replace the engine again.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[dayzhaze]

Dude, the pineal gland is literally called Tian and is located at the intersection between tian mu line and du mai where mu is a different name for the upper dantian. The PHYSICAL part or organ that is worked in all "third eye techniques" is about the pineal gland and it's decalcification. it is also the source of supernatural powers. this has been taught by Liping, Lin and Jiang Feng. The energy part is something else. You really have no idea what you are saying. Again I urge you to go find a master you are in great need of one.

 

Ps: I was warned not to post here because this type of conversation might happen. This will be my last post on this site

 

"this has been taught by Liping, Lin and Jiang Feng."

 

I've seen no evidence these teachers are legitimate,  until I do their words are useless for me.

 

"This will be my last post on this site"

 

Will you give me $1.00 if this turns out to be false?

[thelerner]

I think Kosta was telling the truth

 

I think Chang is a master, great healer, can do the electro shocks with his body.

 

If Kosta told the truth, then Chang is capable of much more than electro shocks.

 

"Why Jim could only perform telekinesis in a dark basement when Chang and his friends were there."

 

Jim had not attained level 4 yet, he could not project yang outside his body without a yin field present.  John provided that for the demonstration.

<edited Poor etiquette on my part to bring Jim into the discussion.

 

 

Perhaps I wrote poorly.  Admittedly I am no expert, far from it and just putting down my suspicions.  Still sometimes a little distance from the matter allows a truer view. 

 

What I believe is Kosta was writing down (truthfully) what Chang told him.  What Chang included ( imo) was stories and legends.  It was .. romanticized.. someone said it best when they wrote earlier, most martial and family arts have a 'real' tradition and a legendary one.   At the time Kosta was writing with stars in his eyes.   What I'm getting at is Chang is capable of more then electro shocks, but less then what some of his demonstrations suggest. 

 

.. helped along the plot of wizard level something versus wizard level whatever in a death battle, but real.. I don't think so.

 

I do think Mopai has juice to it but so do other arts.  And those arts have real teachers, authors who actually practice the art,  who teach and explain the niceties and complexities and keep people from screwing themselves up.  Get people into deeper dharmas, change them, evolve them even humble them. 

 

The best proof, I suppose,  will lie in the future.  We will see if those working with Mo Pai get the power to knock over small empty boxes as long as Chang and friends are in the room.  Will they attain the powers they long for?  Dunno, we will see. 

 

Not that I care much.  I like Buddhists view that obsessing with powers is a distraction, and the Taoist one to keep it natural, follow and connect to nature's rhythms. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by thelerner

[dayzhaze]

Perhaps I wrote poorly, what I believe is Kosta was writing down (truthfully) what Chang told him.  What Chang told was not the truth.  It was .. romanticized.. someone said it best when they wrote earlier, most martial and family arts have a 'real' tradition and a legendary one.   At the time Kosta was writing with stars in his eyes. 

 

I believe Jim was faked out on the telekinesis, nothing to do with levels or borrowed yin fields.   Maybe by Chang or some of the others there.  Wave your hands and empty boxes fall forward in a dark basement.   People are gullible.  So many of Changs videos look like magicians set ups because they are.  In truth if telekinesis was possible, Chang could pick up a piece of paper or half a piece.  Keep it simple.  Course such differences is why these threads go on 15 pages.  And why we don't have dozens of Mo Pai'ers performing such tricks on the net.

 

Matter of fact I'm of the opinion the whole 72 levels is an artificial construct.  It sounded good the book.  Got gullible Westerners to spend money on fake 72 level books.  And helped along the plot of wizard level something versus wizard level whatever in a death battle, but real.. I don't think so.

 

I do think Mopai has juice to it but so do other arts.  And those arts have real teachers, authors who actually practice the art,  who teach and explain the niceties and complexities and keep people from screwing themselves up.  Get people into deeper dharmas, change them, evolve them even humble them. 

 

The best proof, I suppose,  will lie in the future.  We will see if those working with Mo Pai get the power Mr McMillan had, to move empty boxes as long as Chang and friends are in the room.  Will they attain the powers they long for?  Dunno, we will see.

 

Not that I care much.  I like Buddhists view that obsessing with powers is a distraction, and the Taoist one to keep it natural, follow and connect to nature's rhythms. 

 

"I believe is Kosta was writing down (truthfully) what Chang told him."

 

Then if Kosta was telling the truth, Chang demonstrated feats more amazing than telekinesis to him.

 

"I believe Jim was faked out on the telekinesis"

 

Yeah I think so too.  John was a dishonest, magician seeking to scam money out of his students, and defraud them, so he set up tests like this to psyche them out.  That's what happened, I'm sure of it!  He probably paid the credentialed professions that went to debunk him, so they made it look real.  How evil is that to scam all those people out of millions of dollars!  What a terrible scam artist John Chang is!

 

"And those arts have real teachers"

 

Not like those fake nasty money scamming magicians like John Chang! YEAH!

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze