mopai

[MooNiNite]

Having 

 

..

Edited November 30, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Wells]

,

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Jetsun]

Because he has no more instruction to follow, he has gone as far as he can go without John Chang giving him further instruction.

 

The point of the beginning levels, is to fill, compress, and make the LDT mobile. Once this is done, if further instruction is not provided your training stops. I am certain Kosta still meditates, you can't forget what you experience on the other side in actual meditation,and you will always want to return, the desire to return to this is even stronger than basal biological drives. However there is no point in continuing training he has already completed.

So what are you and your friends planning to do when you complete those levels of training?

[dayzhaze]

John Chang never said that opening the crown chakra is equivalent to level 72, that is something Kosta dreamt up.

 

I am not going to argue John or Kosta did or did not say anything, because it is an exercise in futility to play chess with a pigeon.

 

Please note I am not actually calling you a pigeon, it's just a saying expressing it's impossible to argue with someone that doesn't adhere to the rules of the game.

[dayzhaze]

So what are you and your friends planning to do when you complete those levels of training?

 

Continue basic meditation, and look for another teacher willing to prove himself to scientists and doctors.

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[allinone]

you are trying to escape reincarnation cycle. What evidence you have that you reincarnated?

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

All we have are Mo Pai levels 1 & 2a instructions as taught by Jim,

which were posted by unfaithful students all over the internet years ago (even in facebook groups)

and which are now also in the possession of thousands of other people all over the world who downloaded them too and most likely try to train with those instructions without having had any guidance from Jim previously.

 

The question for us on neigongforum is:

Is completing 2a (in other words: most likely the result of a compacted mass of yang chi in your tantien) enough for being able to leave the cycle of reincarnation or not?

If yes, then the to westerners available Mo Pai levels are worth to train in,

if not, then they are not worth to train in and an alternative system, which allows the trainee to achieve a higher level of development, must be found.

 

The help of tonkosong and Neikung to answer this question would be very appreciated, as they are the only persons available to us being able to answer this question.

 

If it would be proven through their statement that a compacted mass of yang chi is enough to exit reincarnation,

I personally would prefer anyways to persue this goal rather through Gary Clyman's "Mind Light Nei Kung" system (which is in Mo Pai terms rather a Chi Kung than a Nei Kung system as it only works with yang chi),

as I have good anecdotal evidence that it most likely leads to that result, I have it in my possession and I have guidance available through it's teacher.

Also, it fits my personality much better than Mo Pai Levels 1 & 2a training.

 

Tonkosong and Neikung, if you are really here to help people as you claim,

please help us to answer these questions

to clear things up once and for all.

 

That would be very appreciated and helpful.

 

"Is completing 2a (in other words: most likely the result of a compacted mass of yang chi in your tantien) enough for being able to leave the cycle of reincarnation or not?"

 

I am fairly certain Kosta says level 30 is the minimum to break reincarnation.  I would be curious to know if a 2a is able to take any yang chi at all with them after they die, or if they become a purely yin spirit though.

 

"If yes, then the to westerners available Mo Pai levels are worth to train in,"

 

Perhaps if we complete 2a we will be allowed by Jodo to find another teacher who can help us.  I do not believe our creator gave us this information for no reason.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

you are trying to escape reincarnation cycle. What evidence you have that you reincarnated?

 

My mentor, and friend breaks it down into cases.

 

Case 1.  Eternal afterlife occurs after death. (this can be heaven or hell, but is eternal)

 

Case 2.  Eternal nonexistence occurs after death (no rebirth occurs)

 

Case 3.  Eventual reincarnation occurs.

 

Only case 3 is unacceptable. I agree with this, and also John Chang's personal belief is that reincarnation occurs, and the point of mo pai is to break it at level 30+.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

Hopefully tonkosong and Neikung will clear up these questions.

Being able to take a part of your yang chi with you possibly could give you the ability

of staying out of reincarnation as an earthbound spirit somehow,

so you don't have to reincarnate again as a human

as it seems to be the case with the indonesian ghost "the Prince",

whose case was addressed by Kosta in his books.

 

"Hopefully tonkosong and Neikung will clear up these questions."

 

I don't think they like us much to be honest.  I can't blame them based on the absolutely outrageous behavior I've seen, and emails that have been forwarded to me as examples of this insanity.   I honestly have to wonder if China and Indonesia have a general population as out of control and insane as we do.  I have hard time believing our society is holding together and is as functional as it is if most people are like the ones I've encountered who are interested in mopai. 

 

I don't think even if they knew of an alternative they would suggest it openly, imagine if they did these people would start a mass exodus to trample the teacher they suggest to death, or run his name through the mud like they do John Chang, Kosta and Jim.  Maybe you should try messing them in private.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[Jetsun]

One way to get off the cycle of reincarnation is to thoroughly and honestly examine what exactly it is that is reincarnating 

[dayzhaze]

One way to get off the cycle of reincarnation is to thoroughly and honestly examine what exactly it is that is reincarnating 

 

John Chang's assessment is more important to me.

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

Well, if I knew from tonkosong or Neikung for sure that having a tantien filled with compacted yang chi is enough to exit reincarnation,

I would have the motivation to use all of my free time into Mind Light Nei Kung training to persue that goal

and presenting the following measurable results to convince those of this system who want to exit reincarnation.

Gary surely wouldn't mind the consequences, lol.

 

 

 

Good idea.

 

"tantien filled with compacted yang chi is enough to exit reincarnation,"

 

I can almost certainly guarantee you it isn't.  I feel as morepie does that we have been given this gift, and are expected to complete it before more is given to us. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Jetsun]

John Chang's assessment is more important to me.

 

More important than your own direct experience?

 

Isn't that just a deferral of your own power/responsibility

[gendao]

"Hopefully tonkosong and Neikung will clear up these questions."

 

I don't think they like us much to be honest.  I can't blame them based on the absolutely outrageous behavior I've seen, and emails that have been forwarded to me as examples of this insanity.   I honestly have to wonder if China and Indonesia have a general population as out of control and insane as we do.  I have hard time believing our society is holding together and is as functional as it is if most people are like the ones I've encountered who are interested in mopai.

Yes, there are cultural differences.  Westerners tend to veer more towards self-entitled individualist egotism, and Chinese more towards self-deprecating collectivist harmony.  That's why most forums here quickly descend into chest-thumping pissing contests...

 

Meanwhile, an actual poster from China exhibits far more genuine concern for others, patience, & humility...despite actually knowing far more than most of the peanut gallery here. 

 

This raises some interesting questions.  Does traditional Chinese neidan have to be modified for many in the West to help clear out a lot more personal psychological baggage as a preliminary first step?

 

Forget about energetic Zou Huo Ru Mo 走火入魔, what about psychological dysfunctions that could simply lead one very wayward in life?

[Brian]

John Chang is the only master who presented tangiable scientific evidence that his spiritual training system is not only real but also efficient.

+

Reincarnation is part of the theory behind John Chang's system.

=

Reincarnation is most likely a fact.

Color me crazy but I'm still waiting to see this oft-vaunted tangible scientific evidence. I mean, I know I'm just a kooky old-fashioned physicist in this regard but I still consider scientific evidence to involve data and I haven't seen any presented. What, exactly, did they measure? Voltage? Amperage? Charge? An electric field? A magnetic field? Electromagnetic radiation? Changes in impedance? Where are the numbers? Watts? Volts? Coulombs? Webers? Ohms? Anything??? Where is the presentation of hypothesis and method? Where're the predictive tests? How about a null hypothesis? Where are the charts, graphs and tables? Where is the error analysis?

 

As I've said many times, I take John Chang at face value and assume both him and the Mo Pai to be legitimate but NOT on any scientific basis, and I see no justification for claiming either that it has been scientifically verified or that it has any sort of exclusivity in this regard.

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Neikung]

Ok dude, I get it.

So what would be your advice to westerner people who want to learn a system similar to Mo Pai?

Is there an alternative to westerners then?

If your guys' goal is really to just keep westerners from screwing themselves up with improper Mo pai training,

only pointing them to an alternative will really do the trick.

You can point to the dangers of unrevised and dangerous Mo Pai training all day long,

I doubt that this will keep any fanatic from training in it until there is an alternative.

Are you aware of a legit Nei Kung teacher who teaches Nei Kung to westerners?

Some constructive input would be very appreciated,

by all of us.

In case an alternative for westerners is found, most likely no westerner will ever attempt to train in Mo Pai anymore.

It's as simple as that.

 

Btw, I am aware of a Chi Kung system (and it's teacher) available to westerners that seems to work in filling your tantien with compressed yang chi,

but this system does not include working with yin chi.

So my question to you is: Will a tantien filled with condensed yang chi allow me to exit the cycle of reincarnation, according to your informations and according to the teachings of your school?

Or, if I want to exit the cycle of reincarnation, do I need to train necessarily in a Nei Kung system, which develops and accumulates yin chi as well?

The teacher of said Chi Kung system is just interested in healing and developing Neijin and could not answer my question regarding reincarnation.

Frankly, I haven't personally investigated any other neigong schools.  You and others probably know more about all the different schools discussed here in thedaobums.   I haven't heard of a similar school either, whether in Indonesia or in China.

As for the other question, I don't know where you get the information that training in Mopai can free you from reincarnation. Reincarnation is such an abstract concept, who really knows whether it happens or not, let alone whether training in neigong can affect it. Reincarnation is not a topic discussed at the school and its exit or whatever is certainly not the goal of any students.  

[allinone]

John Chang is the only master who presented tangiable scientific evidence that his spiritual training system is not only real but also efficient.

+

Reincarnation is part of the theory behind John Chang's system.

=

Reincarnation is most likely a fact.

 

Static electricity. He can probably cultivate it into his body. Maybe charge up to couple Kvolts. It could explain the effects and powers: color of the "chi", burning, breaking things, stopping hearts, restarting them again.

 

lvl 50 can't kill lvl51 is a hint too..

[dayzhaze]

Well, remember the case of "the prince".

He is seemengly out of the cycle.

 

Yes, but only for a few hundred years, he was eventually reeled back in if I remember correctly.