mopai

[dayzhaze]

Frankly, I haven't personally investigated any other neigong schools.  You and others probably know more about all the different schools discussed here in thedaobums.   I haven't heard of a similar school either, whether in Indonesia or in China.

As for the other question, I don't know where you get the information that training in Mopai can free you from reincarnation. Reincarnation is such an abstract concept, who really knows whether it happens or not, let alone whether training in neigong can affect it. Reincarnation is not a topic discussed at the school and its exit or whatever is certainly not the goal of any students.  

 

"certainly not the goal of any students. "

 

If not to become a immortal spirit, what is the point of the system in your opinion?

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[thelerner]

"I believe is Kosta was writing down (truthfully) what Chang told him."

 

Then if Kosta was telling the truth, Chang demonstrated feats more amazing than telekinesis to him.

 

"I believe Jim was faked out on the telekinesis"

 

Yeah I think so too.  John was a dishonest, magician seeking to scam money out of his students, and defraud them, so he set up tests like this to psyche them out.  That's what happened, I'm sure of it!  He probably paid the credentialed professions that went to debunk him, so they made it look real.  How evil is that to scam all those people out of millions of dollars!  What a terrible scam artist John Chang is!

 

"And those arts have real teachers"

 

Not like those fake nasty money scamming magicians like John Chang! YEAH!

I'm not sure you understand my point or are just covering up insecurity with sarcasm.

 

The problem with your thinking is its all or nothing.  Its all true or its all false.  In my view, hell I explained it in my first post here a couple pages ago.  Ultimately I think the 'its all true pov' is naive and gullible.  So is the opposite.   I've only stated a dozen times that John Chang is a legitimate master and healer.   Does that means he is above playing some tricks on gullible Westerns, no, not in my opinion. 

 

That what hooks people like you.  He can legitimately do some things.  But when its not enough to be a healer have some electrical discharge ability, its not enough for Westerns raised on Castaneda and superheros.  He needs more to impress you and thus the trickery and stories begin.  Whereas in the East they're not needed.  

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

Thank you very much for answering, although it is surely not the answer I was hoping for!

My intention today for being interested in spiritual systems is solely to gain control over my own fate and destiny,

which practically translates into being able to exit the cycle of reincarnation.

It seems to me that I am not able to understand the mindset of indonesian students.

If not to exit reincarnation, what possible motivaton could have indonesian students to join the school?

Serving the will of heaven? Becoming good in martial arts? Being part of an ancient spiritual tradition?

 

I was certain the point of mo pai was to become an immortal spirit, but perhaps I am wrong.  I am curious to see what they say.

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

More important than your own direct experience?

 

Isn't that just a deferral of your own power/responsibility

 

My own direct experience confirms what John Chang taught Kosta.  However I will not get into the details.  It stands only to lengthen this argument.

[Chang]

My own direct experience confirms what John Chang taught Kosta.  However I will not get into the details.  It stands only to lengthen this argument.

 

What nonsense is this! If you have gained from your practice then surely it is proof that the practice works - at least to the degree that you have made progress.

 

To state that your system works but to make excuses for not offering proof shows both yourself and your system in a very poor light.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Lots of videos of people lighting paper on fire with their bare hands but they show how it it is done.

 

Traditional systems teach more pie techniques but it is considered the basics. Only when we take basic skills and make a lot of claims about them does one become knocked off the way. The exact claims or SUPER effects from more pie are traditionally to be  discarded to avoid feeding an ego in search of being so POWERFUL and all that garbage that gets in the WAY.

[dayzhaze]

Color me crazy but I'm still waiting to see this oft-vaunted tangible scientific evidence. I mean, I know I'm just a kooky old-fashioned physicist in this regard but I still consider scientific evidence to involve data and I haven't seen any presented. What, exactly, did they measure? Voltage? Amperage? Charge? An electric field? A magnetic field? Electromagnetic radiation? Changes in impedance? Where are the numbers? Watts? Volts? Coulombs? Webers? Ohms? Anything??? Where is the presentation of hypothesis and method? Where're the predictive tests? How about a null hypothesis? Where are the charts, graphs and tables? Where is the error analysis?

 

As I've said many times, I take John Chang at face value and assume both him and the Mo Pai to be legitimate but NOT on any scientific basis, and I see no justification for claiming either that it has been scientifically verified or that it has any sort of exclusivity in this regard.

 

Lots of videos of people lighting paper on fire with their bare hands but they show how it it is done.

 

Traditional systems teach more pie techniques but it is considered the basics. Only when we take basic skills and make a lot of claims about them does one become knocked off the way. The exact claims or SUPER effects from more pie are traditionally to be discarded to avoid feeding an ego in search of being so POWERFUL and all that garbage that gets in the WAY.

 

 

What nonsense is this! If you have gained from your practice then surely it is proof that the practice works - at least to the degree that you have made progress.

 

To state that your system works but to make excuses for not offering proof shows both yourself and your system in a very poor light.

 

"Color me crazy but I'm still waiting to see this oft-vaunted tangible scientific evidence."

 

"Lots of videos of people lighting paper on fire with their bare hands but they show how it it is done."

 

"not offering proof"

 

You can see credentialed professionals attempt to debunk him and fail.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2l6zFOG5f0

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[Wu Ming Jen]

Grand Master Qi Feilong: Mel B & Neil Patrick Harris Help Out Disastrous Act - America's Got Talent   youtube

 

how to make flash paper very scientific and do it yourself, no training necessary.

You can do your own research it is very funny whats out there. Now that's entertainment.

[Chang]

My own direct experience confirms what John Chang taught Kosta.  However I will not get into the details.  It stands only to lengthen this argument.

 

You Tube offerings have already been shown. Why do you find it so difficult to inform us of the benefits you have received from the practice of Mo Pai?

[dayzhaze]

You Tube offerings have already been shown. Why do you find it so difficult to inform us of the benefits you have received from the practice of Mo Pai?

 

I refuse to continue this line of questioning. 

 

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

Bro, did you even read this thread?

Placebo Gong "benefits" like feeling lighter, having more energy and feeling more inspired

are not only completely irrelevant in comparison to what we are trying to achieve,

those are much easier achieved anyways through a healthy lifestyle including proper diet and exercise.

And why are you still crying out for water when you have been offered a full bottle of it several times already?

 

I wouldn't say my experiences have been that subjective, they have been much more concrete and tangible.  I just don't believe that even if Jim or Kosta showed up on these peoples door steps, that they would be able to convince them, these people play by a different rule book. Giant snakes dreaming reality are real, scientists only make hoaxes.  How do you reason with such an individual?  The answer is you don't.  The only winning move is not to play.

Edited November 24, 2015 by dayzhaze

[MooNiNite]

The story of Mo Pai is a tragedy. Jim McMillan trained for over a decade under the direct guidance of John Chang and never reached transcendental achievement.  Kosta attained even less. 

[MooNiNite]

That's .

 

..

Edited November 30, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[MooNiNite]

On mopaidebate? No.

 

Are you kidding? The threads are still there. http://mopaidebate.com/ and scroll down.

 

The threads are created by mpg and titled "Mooninite"

[Wu Ming Jen]

Mopai credits the highest achievement of level 72 to Chang San Feng from Wudang Mountain. This is my linage and I never heard of mopai until joining this forum.  

 

So when a system rides the back draft of a well respected and thousands of years tested tradition I lose respect for the imitators.

 

Mopai students do progress we just need to look close at bank statements, billing, expenses and stuff like that.

 

I am not sure but people may be able to make money like herbalife or something by selling books and stuff, correct me if I am wrong.

[MooNiNite]

Mopai credits the highest achievement of level 72 to Chang San Feng from Wudang Mountain. This is my linage and I never heard of mopai until joining this forum.  

 

So when a system rides the back draft of a well respected and thousands of years tested tradition I lose respect for the imitators.

 

Mopai students do progress we just need to look close at bank statements, billing, expenses and stuff like that.

 

I am not sure but people may be able to make money like herbalife or something by selling books and stuff, correct me if I am wrong.

 

Chang San Feng didn't train Mo Pai, neither did Bhodidharma. Both are credited in Kostas book with being a level 72 master. 

[MooNiNite]

Wang Liping was credited by Jim McMillan with being a level 35 Mo Pai master, and he certainly doesn't train Mo Pai.

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[dayzhaze]

it is because the people that train the methods brought down by kosta and jim dont make any progress. 

 

They make more progress than any other system I am aware of. 

[dayzhaze]

Some of these people have been training mo pai since 2008 and still have nothing to show. 

 

Some of them do however, the ones that do can pay attention to what John Chang actually taught, and practice daily.