vibrations, bone density, weight loss

[Yoda]

interesting article:

 

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N50/mice.html

 

That small scale muscle tremors might build bone and reduce fat a possibility that might add to our knowledge of standing practice, kunlun, and the recent wall sitting suggestion, etc.

[Trunk]

There's a related article in the January 2001 National Geographic magazine, called "Surviving in Space". Bone density loss is a big deal for astronauts, and a guy was doing experiments by putting turkeys on a vibrating platform.

 

~ later ~

Wow!, how cool would that be?!?

Stand on a vibrating platform for 15 minutes a day and melt away fat and build bone density! (And I think the vibration is so low you can't feel it?, or maybe can barely feel it.)

For anyone middle-aged on out, that could be really cool. Especially as you get more towards elderly, bone density loss is a really big deal.

 

~ later later ~

I looked up "vibrating platform" on yahoo, and there are bunches of articles etc. Turns out there are also platforms for sale from amazon (link) and from soloflex (link). The soloflex "whole body vibrations" (WBV) looks the most versatile and is the cheapest.

 

I'd be curious if others find other products, comparison.

[doc benway]

I remember those vibration belts that were popular in the '50's and '60's for weight loss. You'd stand on a platform with a belt around your bottom and it would shake your stuff - didn't work but was awful entertaining...

[joeblast]

I'm no expert, but my girlfriend bought me this pillow stuffed with minute balls of styrofoam and it vibrates. It makes my back feel like a champ, especially when its sore. I'm inclined to believe that in the right formula, something like this is viable.

[mYTHmAKER]

I think a rebounder works in a similiar manner.

[freeform]

yes I was looking into this a while back.

 

Seems genuine - a lot of elite athletes use vibration in their regimes - and they usually dont do things that waste one's time.

 

I've tried a machine out in a shop - and you certainly do feel the vibration - there is a way of making iternal adjustments to kind of direct the vibration around the body - I also managed to get the vibration going throught the body - it's kind of like my body and the rate of vibration momentarily synchronised - felt very nice.

 

I also wonder what it would be like to practice full structured standing meditation on one of these things regularly... I suspect it would be a good workout for the tendons...

 

also the machines are getting cheaper by the year.

 

I remember Plato had one of the soloflex machines, maybe we could get an update on how he's getting on with it...?

[gendao]

Over the years, he and his colleagues discovered that high-magnitude signals, like the ones created by the impact as foot hits pavement, were not the predominant signals affecting bone. Instead, bone responded to signals that were high in frequency but low in magnitude, more like a buzzing than a pounding.

Interesting, this runs in line with my theory that walking is "better" exercise than running. Certainly for fat loss, it seems that you want lower intensity & low impact for longer periods of time. So, vibration could presumably be even more effective than walking..

 

I wonder what the human effects of this vibration therapy would be, though? Certainly sounds promising. I just wonder what the best model to buy would be?

[sheng zhen]

I have one of these vibration machines at home actually. It is not as breathtaking and amazing as the commercials want us to believe, but still very good.

 

I think it is good for streching and massage after a workout, but it is also very good for detoxification. The vibration and different positions gets the circulation going throughout the whole body and helps release toxins. Most people experience detox-symptoms the first times they try this kind of workout. And they forget to drink a lot of water so they get problems like headache, nausea and dizziness the first times.

[Trunk]

The vibration and different positions gets the circulation going throughout the whole body and helps release toxins.

How long of a session does it take to get whole-body circulation going?

 

Do you have the soloflex, or other brand?

It seems that the low padded bench layout lends itself to a wider variety of positions, exercises..

Is there a favorite exercise/s that you have on it?

 

[mYTHmAKER]

I'll wait for the bed model so I can sleep and tone

[Yoda]

Plato has one. I'd look for them used, if I were to check it out. While the article claimed that the action of standing produces vibrations in the muscles that the platform mimicked and that running, walking, and rebounding wouldn't do the trick, I'm inclined to think that walking etc would work fine, but stance training would be spot on.

 

I have a foot massager that I could sit on, I suppose. the vibrating thing just doesn't sound fun, though. I mean, to stand on.

[Trunk]

That it increases bone density is impressive to me. When I got interested in this topic some yrs ago it was a derivative of exploring marrow washing. I'm just not up to wacking myself with wires on a regular basis. The purpose of which is to vibrate the marrow.

 

Plus, for my personal situation, it'd be really helpful to not have to work out so long just to warm up.

 

These couple of vids are impressive, especially the 2nd one.

 

Y5cNcskVL5w

 

YhBKulu8HBU

 

~ later ~

This last one on stretching...

jf3E8vurb24

[Smile]

I have a soloflex motor I attached to the 3'x3' wooden platform. If you buy just the motor, it's $100 less then if you buy with the whole bench. You can attached it to anything- like a chair you sit on or bed. The motor is very powerful and the vibration selection goes from .3 to 1.1g. I use .8g and stand 5 minute parallel to the motor vibrations and 5 minutes- across to them. I have to put some soft cushion stuff under the platform because it tends to shake the building, especially if you use certain frequencies.

 

These days I don't do it that often, although I wold like to go back standing on it every day. From all the stupid things I bought, this is the one I don't regret buying.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Every chi kung has usually has a vibration method some call it shaking the body nothing new just do it yourself and wont cost you anything.

[sheng zhen]

How long of a session does it take to get whole-body circulation going?

 

Do you have the soloflex, or other brand?

It seems that the low padded bench layout lends itself to a wider variety of positions, exercises..

Is there a favorite exercise/s that you have on it?

 

 

It takes just 10 min to workout the whole body. More than that is not recommended for normal mortals.

 

My machine is called called Vibroplate. The vibrating plate is very small so I can only do a limited amount of positions.

 

My favorite exercise is just to sit on it. It works well for me because I am so lazy, but it also leaves me with a very good feeling in my spine. And my ass gets a massage. That makes it worth the price(which was not very much, only 300$)

[Yoda]

Just read in Science News... says that the vibrating plate research about increased bone density and weight loss involved vibrations that you could barely feel. It was meant to simulate the vibrations of the muscles during the act of standing. (per the NYTimes article) The dude interviewed in the SN article said that he didn't think his research had any bearing on the vibrating plates that are sold for fitness purposes. He felt that using those plates or climbing on the old washing machine were potentially harmful and didn't recommend their use. (He's no fun at parties, I can tell!!)

 

I've also heard that plants grow better when exposed to loud music of any kind. Maybe just crank the stereo?

 

You teens can take it from there, and there's standing practice for the rest of us. Or maybe I'll embrace the tree to hiphop or something...

[Spectrum]

 

 

I've also heard that plants grow better when exposed to

loud music of any kind.

Maybe just crank the stereo?

 

 

Yoda you should know that isn't true. Slayer and Mozart create acoustical fields of information that are organized completely different from one another, observable in plant growth, and in human growth.

 

Read:

 

"Secret Life of Plants" : Peter Tompkins

"Primary Perceptions" : Cleve Backster

[Trunk]

the vibrating plate research about increased bone density and weight loss involved vibrations that you could barely feel

Probably not as marketable as ones that you can feel a lot.

 

Still, some of the video and written testimonials re: the exercise plates seem interesting.

 

It'd be nice if the vibe motors progress so that there are from super-fine-marrow settings to surf-ride-on-choppy-seas.

[turbo]

There is a theory that cats purr when injured to help promote healing. Same idea as standing on a vibrating plate. I wonder which frequencies would be more conducive to healing or effecting various parts of the body.

 

an article:

http://www.bksv.com/2798.asp

[Trunk]

I've had my soloflex vibration platform for a little less than 2 months, and the results have been ... well, "impressive" hardly begins to cover it.

 

I believe that it's pertinent to a post that SeanDenty made about a year ago (bold, mine):

Three weeks earlier Sherfu L found an imbalance in my kidneys. ... As a side, David said that many people who practice the Healing Dao methods end up with this type of imbalance. In any case, on the morning that Sherfu J tested us, as he passed his qi into my left side the qi began to pulse, stopping and starting in a kind of rhythm as my arm contracted and released. He said that I had a fairly serious blockage in my kidney area and would need to draw some of the stagnant blood out and prepare some special herbal pills. One of the members of our group had been through something very similar and having shared their story, prepared me to some degree for what I was about to experience. That afternoon Sherfu had me stand on his porch as he lanced the veins in the back of both my knees with a prong the size of a knitting needle what seemed like at least a half inch into the flesh. After he got the blood flowing he used his qi to push the affected blood out of my body. What came out of me was about a half pint of what looked like roof tar. It was literally black and thick like a paste.

My current assertion is that the average joe schmuck qi gong experimenter, by the use of the vibration platform, could avoid the above unfortunate situation (as well as a host of other miscellaneous). I know that I'm making this assertion with only a very narrow basis of experience, but hey.

 

So, I've put the vibration platform (link) in alchemicaltaoism.com, with various reference links.

[Guest winpro07]

Skeletal muscle can be more fully activated by intentionally flexing the muscles in use. When the large muscles are fully activated the skeletal muscle is forced into action providing greater endurance, and strength. I've been doing this in Five elements in order to get into a lower position. Dropping to about 8 inches below comfort, then pushing up (Lowering, pushing up, and holding use different muscles in different ways)(Lactic acid build up can be controled) Maintaining a pushing up quality with the muscles in use (rather than just holding a locked position)

Just read in Science News... says that the vibrating plate research about increased bone density and weight loss involved vibrations that you could barely feel. It was meant to simulate the vibrations of the muscles during the act of standing. (per the NYTimes article) The dude interviewed in the SN article said that he didn't think his research had any bearing on the vibrating plates that are sold for fitness purposes. He felt that using those plates or climbing on the old washing machine were potentially harmful and didn't recommend their use. (He's no fun at parties, I can tell!!)

 

I've also heard that plants grow better when exposed to loud music of any kind. Maybe just crank the stereo?

 

You teens can take it from there, and there's standing practice for the rest of us. Or maybe I'll embrace the tree to hiphop or something...

[onebir]

The interesting thing (to me) about this research is it potentially confirms standing and taiji as effective forms of exercise, because the vibrations in question have small amplitude & pretty low frequency (if I remember correctly).

 

Bone and muscle surfaces are composed of cells, so both have fairly regular grain. When grained surfaces rub together, a vibration results; tibetan singing bowls are the prime example. In the body, the vibrations will inevitably small - perhaps imperceptible. But the research indicates this may not matter - large amplitudes aren't required.

 

For given grain size, the speed of the two abrading surfaces affects the frequency of vibration. Again, playing with a singing bowl demonstrates this. So the slow speeds of movement in standing (with a mo jin) or practicing taiji may be further exploiting the effect by using low movement speeds to generate low frequencies.

 

If there's someone with a physics or engineering background, it'd be great if you could put up the speed/grain-size/frequency relationship; assuming I can understand them I'll try to dig up info on the size of cells & work out roughly what movement speeds would create frequencies in the the desired range (assuming this has been published somewhere?).

[Trunk]

Well, for many years I've been one of the harshest critics of iron shirt packing breathing, but ... I've been experimenting with all sorts of qi gong on my whole body vibration platform. Haven't done IS1 packing breathing for years, and this morning thought, "hey..?", and tried it while on the wbv:

[dwai]

interesting article:

 

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N50/mice.html

 

That small scale muscle tremors might build bone and reduce fat a possibility that might add to our knowledge of standing practice, kunlun, and the recent wall sitting suggestion, etc.

 

Read something about Condensation breathing and packing Chi into the bone marrow. It is said to make the bones stronger and result in fat burning. Related perhaps?

[billb]

I don't think you need to spend $395 to get the soloflex. They sell the attachment for only $150 and then you can attach it to your own platform or weight bench. The attachment is the part underneath the platform in red and this supplies the vibration.