A strange form of suicidality

[Nikolai1]

Suicidality is wishing to die because you are suffering and wish to suffer no longer.

 

What I am talking about is the feeling that you cannot possibly continue living. You feel utterly expended. You have no further interest nor motivation to continue. You are not suffering, probably far from it. You simply have nothing left to do and no reason to do it. It feels like the exhaustion of your life force.

 

Can anyone relate to this strange state of mind?

[vrihlea]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(mood)

 

pretty common thing nowadays

[Miffymog]

Nope, in my dark place it was not a case of a lack in interest or motivation, but a feeling of there being no hope left. When you're in a stressful situation, there is often a little part of you which stays rational and can tell you that, in the end, you'll be ok. Say you've got some very hard exams coming up, no matter what happens, in time, they'll have passed, and your rational part of the mind tells you this and helps to keep you sane.

 

But, if you're in a place where not even this little rational part can tell you it'll be ok, you lose hope and start to really despair, this was for me when I started entertaining very negative thoughts (in, what felt like, a rational manner).

 

Unfortunately, from this place, it can make me look at your situation and think - 'Man you have it easy', just get off your a*** and do stuff. Now, I know its far from this easy, because it is that very motivation which you are lacking which is preventing you from getting involved in life.

 

There is one way to approach it - get in to a little debt and take a holiday, maybe a dream one somewhere. When you get back you'll want to take another one and, hopefully, you'll start doing stuff to make that happen. You'll also have something to talk about with enthusiasm with others.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Miffymog

[Marblehead]

It would be unfair for me to speak to this so I just said "Thank You" to Miffymog's post as I think it is well said.

[Apech]

Suicidality is wishing to die because you are suffering and wish to suffer no longer.

 

What I am talking about is the feeling that you cannot possibly continue living. You feel utterly expended. You have no further interest nor motivation to continue. You are not suffering, probably far from it. You simply have nothing left to do and no reason to do it. It feels like the exhaustion of your life force.

 

Can anyone relate to this strange state of mind?

 

I can relate strongly to this.  And I think it is (in a sense) a necessary and important feeling.  Or that is my experience.

[Nikolai1]

I can relate strongly to this.  And I think it is (in a sense) a necessary and important feeling.  Or that is my experience.

Why necessary and important?

[Apech]

Why necessary and important?

 

 

It's difficult to find the right words but I will think on it and try.

[Nikolai1]

There is one way to approach it - get in to a little debt and take a holiday, maybe a dream one somewhere. When you get back you'll want to take another one and, hopefully, you'll start doing stuff to make that happen. You'll also have something to talk about with enthusiasm with others.

Yes, this is the type of solution that has stopped feeling like any solution.  I would happily consent to travel anywhere...but will it make me more enthused about life.  No chance. Or that's how it feels.  I have gone through several years of highs and lows that haven't even felt like highs or lows.  To have highs and lows is to be motivated.  You seek one and avod the other.

 

What do you do when everything is just fine?

 

It feels lethal, perhaps more so than depression.

[ilumairen]

I can relate strongly to this.  And I think it is (in a sense) a necessary and important feeling.  Or that is my experience.

 

When I felt utterly depleted, with nothing left to give, it was because I was 'doing' and all of my 'doing' pulled my mind further and further from the sustaining source. It is only necessary in so much as it is a surrender of all of our grasping doing that enables return to the source... and yes, it can feel very much like welcoming death.

[Nikolai1]

When I felt utterly depleted, with nothing left to give, it was because I was 'doing' and all of my 'doing' pulled my mind further and further from the sustaining source. It is only necessary in so much as it is a surrender of all of our grasping doing that enables return to the source... and yes, it can feel very much like welcoming death.

I'm not sure this is the depletion that comes from giving too much.  It is not a loss of energy, so much as as loss of motivation.  Behind any expendity energy there is the motivation to expend it in that direction.  What happens when that goes? Death surely?

[ilumairen]

Yes, this is the type of solution that has stopped feeling like any solution.  I would happily consent to travel anywhere...but will it make me more enthused about life.  No chance. Or that's how it feels.  I have gone through several years of highs and lows that haven't even felt like highs or lows.  To have highs and lows is to be motivated.  You seek one and avod the other.

 

What do you do when everything is just fine?

 

It feels lethal, perhaps more so than depression.

 

I was this sort of fine for a very long time; there is more beyond this.

 

I surrendered and went deeper, which probably won't make any sense until it happens.

[ilumairen]

I'm not sure this is the depletion that comes from giving too much.  It is not a loss of energy, so much as as loss of motivation.  Behind any expendity energy there is the motivation to expend it in that direction.  What happens when that goes? Death surely?

 

Yes, death, but not in the way your mind is telling you. That death is just another layer of the ego trying to hold onto what it can't sustain.

[thelerner]

People get depressed.  There are valid reasons for it, life really does suck at times, as well as hormonal- not getting enough sun, genetic components and brain chemicals dopamine, serotonin etc.,  out of whack.

Point is, it most often passes.  Sometimes counseling helps, sometimes the right meds, sometimes waiting it out.  It passes, we get better.  Life comes at us in waves, keep your head long enough and you get a current that goes your way.  Or you simply learn to float with what you have. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by thelerner

[Nikolai1]

Des

 

Could you say more about how this all ended for you? Clearly not in death, but perhaps in a form of ego death?

[ilumairen]

Des

 

Could you say more about how this all ended for you? Clearly not in death, but perhaps in a form of ego death?

 

Yes, a form of ego death. My experience is sacred to me, and will not be the same as yours in any case. But the answer, for me anyway, was surrendering to the fact that I was suffering, that I was not as ok as my ego told me I was, and that I was ready to willingly walk away from that which I had previously used to define myself. It is an emotionally painful process...

 

There seems to be no end to 'deeper still', but in this moment I am better than ok, and the world has opened up for me in ways I could not have anticipated.

[Nikolai1]

Hi Des,

 

But the answer, for me anyway, was surrendering to the fact that I was suffering, that I was not as ok as my ego told me I was, 

I think I have many questions but all of them quite personal !  Sorry.  we can leave it there if you wish!

[ilumairen]

Hi Des,

 

 

I think I have many questions but all of them quite personal !  Sorry.  we can leave it there if you wish!

 

It will be quite personal for you too, and I don't think my personal will help you find your way through yours - all it can really do is muddy the waters. Your answer is not in my stories; I've finally learned that even my answers are not in my stories.

 

All I can tell you is that you are ok, and that there is better than ok when you are ready to surrender to it.

[Nikolai1]

It will be quite personal for you too, and I don't think my personal will help you find your way through yours - all it can really do is muddy the waters. Your answer is not in my stories; I've finally learned that even my answers are not in my stories. All I can tell you is that you are ok, and that there is better than ok when you are ready to surrender to it.

I talk a lot to non-dualists.  I even here that there is no need to be good, to be happy, to be less angry.  No need to make any chnages at all because all of that stuff is just 'in the story'.

 

My experience is that change is thrust upon us anyway, and it can be painful but necessary, unwanted but necessary.  Perhaps stuckness is not yet admitting that further changes must occur.

[ilumairen]

I talk a lot to non-dualists.  I even here that there is no need to be good, to be happy, to be less angry.  No need to make any chnages at all because all of that stuff is just 'in the story'.

 

Sometimes I remember thinking/saying similar things, believing I knew what I was talking about. The words mean something different to me today. Maybe in the future they'll mean something different yet again.

 

My experience is that change is thrust upon us anyway, and it can be painful but necessary, unwanted but necessary.  Perhaps stuckness is not yet admitting that further changes must occur.

 

Yes, it certainly does feel this way sometimes. And this too is ok.

 

[Silent Answers]

It's a sign of progress.

 

Remind yourself that it's going to be a hell of a battle to become the person you want to be. To break 30 years of bad habit in a relatively short space of time will exhuast you. There's no need to force it, but if it excites you to push harder and press for change, then USE that motivation to pick yourself back up.

 

And...Meditate...forget absolutely everything you've ever stored in that head for a while. Ease off of it all, and give your intention a rest. Our mental constructs of the outer world require a lot of energy to hold together. Take off the mask that you wear for others...and the one you wear for yourself. Forget words, don't allow anything to be described. Simply feel the moment and nothing else. When it's time to step back into your character, treat it as a break from the calm.

[Stosh]

I know generally this kind of question is really aimed at folks who would identify with the op. But frankly I don't think wanting to die was ever an idea I entertained , nor do I think it would have ever occurred to me to consider that as an option to embrace.

 

 

If I said I related to the idea, that would support an excuse for someone else. Rather I would offer that its a stupid idea that probably wouldn't have occurred to you,  either,, if some genius hadn't introduced it into circulation , like the existence of guys up in the sky , unicorns , quantum physics , and so forth. 

[doc benway]

Suicidality is wishing to die because you are suffering and wish to suffer no longer.

 

What I am talking about is the feeling that you cannot possibly continue living. You feel utterly expended. You have no further interest nor motivation to continue. You are not suffering, probably far from it. You simply have nothing left to do and no reason to do it. It feels like the exhaustion of your life force.

 

Can anyone relate to this strange state of mind?

 

While this state of mind must seem quite strange, as has been mentioned I don't think it's uncommon. What you are describing is a very frequent feeling associated with depression. You mentioned ups and downs - there could be a component of excessive swings of mood also. I have had such feelings but never too extreme. I have watched others (very close others) go through such phases in very extreme ways. 

 

It's very important to remind ourselves that whatever we feel in any given moment is not who we are. It is just a transient set of feelings and thoughts. People do extreme things when they over identify with these transient states of mind. Perhaps I am feeling  depressed right now, or a complete lack of motivation.... just wait a bit, it will change - guaranteed. I may be feeling great right now... just wait a bit, it will change. Sometimes the changes are rapid, sometimes slow - always change is there. Our life is a manifestation of change. I will be presumptuous and add to Apech's post that one reason such feelings are important is that they define their opposite - yin/yang. One can't possibly always be highly motivated - too exhausting. Activity needs to be balanced by rest and rejuvenation. And we are ALWAYS ON in this day and age. Always overstimulated and always responding. Cycles are the fact of life, a fact of the nature of energy.

 

When we are feeling like we have nothing more to offer, nothing more to do, that's fine - offer nothing, do nothing. Don't fight it and submit to the conditioned thoughts that judge. What does a deer have to offer or a crow? Open up to the possibility that this is exactly what we need right now. Not to do, not to give, but maybe to receive and allow. To just be, without all of the judgment associated with that. Just being is enough, you know.

 

From an elemental view I think this state of mind can mean an abundance of earth and water elemental forces and a lack of fire and air elements. It is also a symptom of disconnectedness. A simple approach is spending some time in nature - especially sunlight and clean air. Opening up to the warmth and fire element of the sun for an hour or two. Opening to the absolute fulfillment and sustenance of slow, deep breathing outdoors. Distance from the stimulation of electronics especially, and avoidance of drugs and alcohol, especially stimulants. Drinking pure water and getting enough sleep, with all electronic devices put in a different room, if possible. Eating organic, nutritious foods, minimizing processed sugars. Practicing qigong or related exercises can also be very helpful. Spending time with a good friend or loved one is also very helpful as long as it is someone who won't have too many expectations - just a willingness to share some time and space.

 

 

 

Your answer is not in my stories; I've finally learned that even my answers are not in my stories. All I can tell you is that you are ok, and that there is better than ok when you are ready to surrender to it.

 

So well said - our mind is the source of the problem, not the answers. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by steve

[Nikolai1]

Nice post Steve thanks

[Nungali]

Suicidality is wishing to die because you are suffering and wish to suffer no longer.

 

What I am talking about is the feeling that you cannot possibly continue living. You feel utterly expended. You have no further interest nor motivation to continue. You are not suffering, probably far from it. You simply have nothing left to do and no reason to do it. It feels like the exhaustion of your life force.

 

Can anyone relate to this strange state of mind?

 

Not really. Although I have contemplated 'taking responsibility for my own death'. 

 

So I am going to offer an opposite take on it

 

A few times I have been very close to death ( I mean personally, I have also been close to others death, been with them when dying and had to  care for the bodies of the dead ... some in a pretty smashed up state ) , with my own close calls  -  even to the point of the police not believing me that I was the driver of that car ... they took me over to it and indicated the roof crushed into the drivers seat, asked how I could have survived that and why did I remove the drivers body and where did I hide it ?    I couldnt explain it either, I had a bump on my head and got 3 stitches in my thumb ... if a witness had not seen me crawling out the passenger side ..... ? 

 

Several more incidents like that - ' accidental ' ... then a few years back a big health one ... on the way out - for sure this time  Even the Doc at the Cancer clinic approved my plan (unofficially)  to not go into treatment , and be sick on their horrible drugs and have my life extended by maybe 2  - 5 years .... sick in a gerri ward  ... he said "you seem like the type that will go bush and take care of things yourself ?"  I accepted that ...  I have had a great life and already lived longer than I expected, achieved my life's dream and several more I never knew I had ! I entered a state of tripping ecstasy (without drugs ) ...  every blade of grass ,,, every insect ... all of life open up into this amazing ..... 'connection' .

 

But then , a 'remission' of sorts ... maybe an extra 20 years ? 

 

( next thing I know I get a gorgeous 26 year old girlfriend who has 3 kids and I am hurled into a world I never experienced before )  .... great stuff !

 

So, no depression or resignation whatsoever .

 

But I still plan on killing myself when its time ... why should I have to die according to someone else's concept ? 

 

The issue is .... as I found out ... the last minute it could all turn around , What a bummer if I bumped myself off too early !

 

Also, the issue of leaving things too late, so you cant do it yourself.  Thats where friends come in ... real friends ... not emotional cling on attachments. 

 

 

I do have pain ... sometimes bad ... but its just physical... and I cant take painkillers because it will unbalance my liver -

 

[ got Hep C , but have kept tabs on it for 15 years with TCM ,,, which surprises the docs ... "why have you not degenerated?"  Me; " TCM !    "  ... any pain seems better than a failing liver, I know, I have felt that a bit, and I have nursed people dying from that . 

 

Docs: <frowning disapproval >  'But you have not degenerated '  ....   Me ; " T CM. " ....    Docs: <frowning disapproval >    ]

 

Pain very day .... for over  6 months now  ( and another  10 to go .... awaiting  a hip replacement on free government list)  but not enough to  end it all. 

 

Some days , I cant even put weight on it ... still I can crawl around the garden in dirt and sunshine with a nice view and weed the vegies and stuff , occasionally, on a good day, I can limp around at training and still show the guys a trick or two with the sword (cant grapple though ) 

 

I hope anyone who has a depression  and suffers pain  ... so much that it feels unbearable ... passes through it and manages to experience the pure joy of simply still being alive that I can feel at times .

[liminal_luke]

I like what Steve said about change. Feelings, especially, change. Even the feeling that nothing will ever change changes. Feelings provide valuable information about our experience but they are not to be taken as incontrovertible truth. In winter everything looks dead but spring comes and life springs forth anew.

 

Liminal