A strange form of suicidality

[Geof Nanto]

I think this is why Jung is so hard to understand.  He was speaking about processes that we can only possibly understand once we have passed through the same.  

 

Yes, that's why I've found Jung such a valuable reference over many, many years. As my inner experience grows, so too does my understanding of Jung's insights. He validates and legitimizes the innermost essence of myself. And the conscious communication of these insights further helps me to grow my own inner experience. 

 

He wrote " The concepts of complex psychology are, in essence, not intellectual formulations, but names for certain areas of experience, and though they may be described they remain dead and irrepresentable to anyone who has not experienced them."

Edited November 30, 2015 by Yueya

[Nikolai1]

Hi Yueya

 

A while back I asked this.

 

Is individuation liberation from the dictates of the archetypal realm?  Or does increasing individuation mark the increasing constellation of the archetypes in our life? Or, perhaps, could we say that individuation is simply the raising of archetypal influence from the unconscious to the conscious.

It seems that Jung goes some way to answering that in your quote:

 

The concepts of complex psychology are, in essence, not intellectual formulations, but names for certain areas of experience, and though they may be described they remain dead and irrepresentable to anyone who has not experienced them.

I think the change inside us comes when we stop viewing the events in our life as just random things we encounter, and start viewing them as meaningful opportunites, peculiar to us, which can lead to further growth.  We can see them as being 'trials sent by God' or we can see them as archetypes produced from our unconscious which we need to accept and assimilate.

 

For example, for most of our life we might a particularly annoying type of person who always gets to us.  Our strategy is to avoid people of his type, or treat him in such a way that ensures he stays clear of us.  We may tell him what we think of him, and feel justified in doing so.

 

The change comes when we start to see this same person as some kind of envoy, something mysterious that is particularly charged with meaning.  Now it would feel like bad faith to either avoid him or attack him, we realise that he is our shadow and must be faced.

 

So I guess what I think is that archetypes are always a part of our life.  But until we view them as archetypes, they can't be approached and treated as archetypes and we can't benefit from the encounter with them.

 

We may meet our shadow 25 times before we realise that we are on the quest, thus only the 26th encounter is with the shadow.  So understanding our lifelong shadow is always a retropsective thing.

 

I suppose this means that some kind of self-transendence is necessary before the archetypes can be recognised.  It is almost like we need to view our whole life with a kind of irony. or detachment.  We need to be able to see our life as a kind of story which we watch unfold.  And in that story certain caricatures will appear and we can wait for them and expect them.

 

This change to the detached observer of the story mode is so obviously a spiirtual awakening of sorts.  There must be loads of Jungians and analysts who have simply never gone through this.  It's no wonder that Jung still plays a minor role compared to Freud.  Freud didn't require any of this from us!

[centertime]

I suppose this means that some kind of self-transendence is necessary before the archetypes can be recognised.  It is almost like we need to view our whole life with a kind of irony. or detachment.  We need to be able to see our life as a kind of story which we watch unfold.  And in that story certain caricatures will appear and we can wait for them and expect them.

Or an external point view... and where can you get it? For example... in the dreams... In dreams, one can see oneself externally.

Then some look at the figures... and they recognise themselves and they say yes that is me.. that is how I behave.....

Edited December 2, 2015 by centertime

[Nikolai1]

Or an external point view... and where can you get it? For example... in the dreams... In dreams, one can see oneself externally.

Yes of course, good point, although the same problem still occurs. We still need a lot of self-awareness before we are in a position to understand our dreams.

 

Also, in terms of impact, there is a big difference between meeting the anima in your dreams and meeting her psychoid form in reality.  I wonder if Jung ever talked about this? Perhaps the dream is a kind of intimation of what is coming - a kind of preparation?

[4bsolute]

Yes of course, good point, although the same problem still occurs. We still need a lot of self-awareness before we are in a position to understand our dreams.

 

Also, in terms of impact, there is a big difference between meeting the anima in your dreams and meeting her psychoid form in reality.  I wonder if Jung ever talked about this? Perhaps the dream is a kind of intimation of what is coming - a kind of preparation?

 

Jesus christ no wonder you replied to me in that way.

 

You dont need to analize so much

 

You dont have to break up everything just to break up the crumbles again and the crumbles of the crumbles... of course you can but you dont have to

 

You have an organ in yourself that simply knows, in all it's complexity. You can bring your consciousness down from your head in that area (your MDT) and resolve all the issues by itself. Self-awareness starts here. Not in your lower Self, LDT and not in your higher Self UDT but in your center MDT. It truly is that simple. Actually it is so simple that it is super-ordinary, because it is the basis of all. Your lower mind makes things complicated, your higher mind wants to lift you out of it and your center just is - complete.

 

Lower mind works with thought, higher mind works with intuition and a very subtle form of thought, closer to intent. Your Self, which you seek awareness of, is that stillpoint out of which all of that is coming out of. So you will get the desired awareness if you are able to transcend all of what you attempt here: Rivalvry and discussion (personal mind and the entirel mental body, thought)

 

There is no spiritual-anatomical way to reach your Self through thought. Because thought acts as a barrier, to Reality. Reality is free from thought. In order to experience reality, thought needs to go. Shikantaza etc

 

Our Self, there is only one, all else is personality, split from this Self, has the quality to know. This knowing does not need a reflection, it is clear and direct.

 

The more you are interested in your middle tantien, the more you will embody this Knowing (about everything in your perception) and thought gets more and more obsolete. It's realized as a crutch. In fact if you decide to think again, you block yourself off from Knowing. It will all be presented itself in energy and it's felt quality to you.

 

Joyous self-experience with it

Edited December 2, 2015 by 4bsolute

[TaoBurned]

I deal with suicidal ideation everyday.  I had cancer, chronic post concussion syndrome and am bipolar.  I also have a pinched

nerve between c1 and c2 from my fall which I cannot afford to address at this time.  I'm in constant pain.  On top on it all I'm always alone and have no friends or family.  At present I am committed to being prepared for what is next.  I will not be

a victim to this,  I do a few Tai Chi Forms, standing meditation, and am determined not to be a victim to my own emotions.

It's a start.

[Nikolai1]

I deal with suicidal ideation everyday.  I had cancer, chronic post concussion syndrome and am bipolar.  I also have a pinched

nerve between c1 and c2 from my fall which I cannot afford to address at this time.  I'm in constant pain.  On top on it all I'm always alone and have no friends or family.  At present I am committed to being prepared for what is next.  I will not be

a victim to this,  I do a few Tai Chi Forms, standing meditation, and am determined not to be a victim to my own emotions.

It's a start.

Good for you TaoBurned - I think the worst is behind you!