vibrations in the LDT

[vrihlea]

I've been practicing for a few months now, mostly observing my breath and body, working on my posture and breath.

 

I've come to a point where if I "tune" my breath to be very thin and deep and keep my focus on my LDT some kind of vibration is going on there

 

I've been trying to google some responses and found something, but I'm still unsure about what to do next. These guys explain quite well what I'm experiencing, but we have a different background:

http://qifrontier.com/2013/11/15/a-fish-in-the-belly/

 

and from this post here:

http://thedaobums.com/topic/31898-rotating-the-lower-dan-tien/?p=488443

 

Have a slight connection with my LDT, ie I can feel it 'tickle' and perhaps 'catch' occasionally when focusing on it, never a nice feeling but seemingly driven by its movement. Not a constant 'fish' or feather rolling however.  

 

 

should I just ignore it, and keep doing "emptiness" meditation, or should I continue focussing on the LDT ?

[Kubba]

Just another phenomena. It vibrates then it stops, then it come back, and leave. It comeas and goes. Nothing to bother about. Yet I understan that one can get excited about it when first experienced. My sugestion is not to pay to much attention to it nor put any special meaning to it. Its nothing bad or wrong, nor good or special .

, sometimes your whole body can start vibrating and you don't know weather the building is vibrating or just your body. when you will asume that there is a meaning in it then you can project it and will meet confirmations of its meaning in external world and can stick to it for some time, yet it isn't truth.

Just practice according to what your teacher suggested to you, different phenomena can come, with time you wont pay too much attention to them

Edited November 16, 2015 by Kubba

[vrihlea]

thank you for your response,

 

I'm asking mostly because they occur at my will (in a way or another) if they were to happen involuntary I probably wouldn't have started this thread. It requires focus and a type of very fine/subtle breathing pattern and it it's very easy to "lose it" if I start to lose focus

 

There's no one I can ask, no teacher or anything like that. My practice is a result of lots of reading and my "abundance" of free time.

 

 

I think I'll focus on my LDT for a while and see if I can spot a difference, between what I was doing until now and my new "discovery", just wanted to hear a few opinions

[Kubba]

Thera are many things that can happend at your will, starting with vibrations in your body, healling your body, healing someone elses body up to manifesting things and events at your will. Doesn't mean that it is necessary to do. Doesn't mean that it will bring any reasult either. Some say that it is even a waste of time. The problem is that it can be fascinating and misleading.

Different phenomena like yours can occure daily for years, everyday something different, at your will and withouth your will... And if you put your attention on it it will just make it grow, and that can put one in delusion for lifetimes

 

I suggest you gently to go and find a real teacher. It can save you some years of spinning in one place and anxiety or some mental destabilisation when practice will progress and more ennergy will be moved (doesnt mean that it will happend but just in case). if already things like that can happend then I would say that you have potentiall and it would be good to use it properly since the beginning.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Kubba

[dwai]

I've been practicing for a few months now, mostly observing my breath and body, working on my posture and breath.

 

I've come to a point where if I "tune" my breath to be very thin and deep and keep my focus on my LDT some kind of vibration is going on there

 

I've been trying to google some responses and found something, but I'm still unsure about what to do next. These guys explain quite well what I'm experiencing, but we have a different background:

http://qifrontier.com/2013/11/15/a-fish-in-the-belly/

 

and from this post here:

http://thedaobums.com/topic/31898-rotating-the-lower-dan-tien/?p=488443

 

 

 

should I just ignore it, and keep doing "emptiness" meditation, or should I continue focussing on the LDT ?

Connecting to your LDT is very important in internal alchemy/cultivation/neijia. If you want to do that route, you will eventually get to "emptiness" by the following process.

 

1. Become sensitive to your lower dan tien. If you try too hard, it will not work (you seem to be doing the right things)
2. Once you are aware of the LDT and Qi in your body, you can start condensing it (it will start condensing). This will develop your spiritual center.
3. Once your spiritual center develops, you will connect with your De ( a piece of the Dao in all of us). 
4. The De will then connect you with Dao (and void/emptiness).

 

it's best however to find a practice that resonates with you and continue. 

 

Best,

 

Dwai

[MooNiNite]

keep going, you're just getting started

[vrihlea]

I'll continue doing a little bit of both and see what works and what doesn't

 

I don't have a teacher or something like that, and I don't think I'm ready to accept someone as my guru, but I feel that I've read enough to understand how it's supposed to work, at least to get me started

 

dwai, could you elaborate some more on those 4 steps, what exactly would I have to do ?

 

MooNiNite - thanks, I will

[dwai]

I'll continue doing a little bit of both and see what works and what doesn't

 

I don't have a teacher or something like that, and I don't think I'm ready to accept someone as my guru, but I feel that I've read enough to understand how it's supposed to work, at least to get me started

 

dwai, could you elaborate some more on those 4 steps, what exactly would I have to do ?

 

MooNiNite - thanks, I will

Hi Vrihlea,

 

I think you already have Master Waysun Liao's book titled "The T'ai Ch'i Classics".  There, chapter 2 has all the information you need to do your internal cultivation. 

 

Master Liao articulates how to develop sensitivity of the Dan Tien. Then he also articulates how to develop Qi flow in the body. And then how to Condense the Qi into Jin. This Jin will then help develop Shen (spiritual energy). This will allow us to connect with a piece of the source (Dao) in us. 

 

Typically you can get to the point of developing Jin and then you'd need a Master to show you how to cultivate/transform into spiritual power. 

 

You can also learn from his book - Restoring your life energy the basic meditations that will help towards cultivation. 

 

But as someone else also pointed out, you should seek out a teacher if you can.

[Bearded Dragon]

I love how people throw in their opinions without actually asking what his goal is. Nice work.

[vrihlea]

Hi Vrihlea,

 

I think you already have Master Waysun Liao's book titled "The T'ai Ch'i Classics".  There, chapter 2 has all the information you need to do your internal cultivation. 

 

Master Liao articulates how to develop sensitivity of the Dan Tien. Then he also articulates how to develop Qi flow in the body. And then how to Condense the Qi into Jin. This Jin will then help develop Shen (spiritual energy). This will allow us to connect with a piece of the source (Dao) in us. 

 

Typically you can get to the point of developing Jin and then you'd need a Master to show you how to cultivate/transform into spiritual power. 

 

You can also learn from his book - Restoring your life energy the basic meditations that will help towards cultivation. 

 

But as someone else also pointed out, you should seek out a teacher if you can.

 

 

thanks, I'll add these books to my "to read" shelf

 

 

I love how people throw in their opinions without actually asking what his goal is. Nice work.

 

I've read about so many approaches and paths. The conclusion I came to is that every practice is some kind of "self therapy". Everybody is looking for unity/the light/gods, but all that is within ourselves, in our subconscious so to say, or the soul - whatever term works for you best.

 

My goal is finding something, but since my senses dictate how I perceive the world the first step to my "goal" became - getting a feel for this energy within us. something like baby steps towards the Dao, or whatever you want to call it.

 

I believe that every religion (or even living in itself) leads us in the same direction, so.. everyone's welcome to say everything he feels like saying

[vrihlea]

for those interested in this topic, the book - "The Secretes of Chinese Meditation", by Samuel Weiser is touching this subject of vibrations in the belly briefly (page 174)

[NotVoid]

for those interested in this topic, the book - "The Secretes of Chinese Meditation", by Samuel Weiser is touching this subject of vibrations in the belly briefly (page 174)

 

Yes, getting vibrations or shaking sensations in the lower abdomen is not an uncommon thing when practicing certain types of meditation and qigong practices. IMO, you should really have a good teacher if you are going to pursue such kind of practices as there is potential there for running into problems if a person wings it on their own, especially if you are doing something other than natural breathing, or if you are adding concentration on the lower abdomen area (lower dan tian area) and that sort of thing. There are some teachers out there who give regular workshops on daoist meditation and on different qigong practices, if you don't have teachers in your area. I can't recommend any teachers however as everyone has their own take on what interests them and what they think is good and what they think is not good. In my experience you should not meditate with strong concentration on the lower dan tian, as that can lead to issues, but keeping a gentle awareness on this area when starting meditating for a few minutes and then forgetting about it is a safer route to go. From what I have seen however, various teachers from different traditions can vary quite a bit on how they approach and practice sitting meditation.

[vrihlea]

Yes, getting vibrations or shaking sensations in the lower abdomen is not an uncommon thing when practicing certain types of meditation and qigong practices. IMO, you should really have a good teacher if you are going to pursue such kind of practices as there is potential there for running into problems if a person wings it on their own, especially if you are doing something other than natural breathing, or if you are adding concentration on the lower abdomen area (lower dan tian area) and that sort of thing. There are some teachers out there who give regular workshops on daoist meditation and on different qigong practices, if you don't have teachers in your area. I can't recommend any teachers however as everyone has their own take on what interests them and what they think is good and what they think is not good. In my experience you should not meditate with strong concentration on the lower dan tian, as that can lead to issues, but keeping a gentle awareness on this area when starting meditating for a few minutes and then forgetting about it is a safer route to go. From what I have seen however, various teachers from different traditions can vary quite a bit on how they approach and practice sitting meditation.

 

Thank you for your concern. I am aware of the possible risks involved in all this, but since there's so much misinformation out there, I decided to try and figure out for my self.

 

I think/hope that it'll be enough to "listen" to my body and go with what feels right, also, in my opinion science has evolved enough, it should be possible to explain what's going on without the need of much mysticism.

 

 

For me this is more an experiment on "self suggestion" then a religious practice, and I'm writing this to leave a trace of some sort in case something "bad" will happen

[voidisyinyang]

All these people trying to use scare tactics but the dude probably can't even sit in full lotus which is just basic practice.

 

The lower tan tien is based on the vagus nerve going to the stomach - it's the 2nd largest nerve in the body after the spine.

 

So you get spine energy up and then vagus nerve down - it's actually the right side vagus nerve that goes up from the rear of the body - the reproductive organs and stomach while the left side vagus nerve goes down to the heart.

 

Vibrations is a good sign - you got some qi energy activated.

 

The Bushmen San, the original healers, call it N/om and say the small intestines are the largest source of N/om in the body.

 

It gets super super hot - and so a little vibrations is nothing to promote scare tactics about. haha.

 

Also you don't need to have a "goal."

 

That's a Western concept - a "goal" because it assumes there is a "you" that will be "done" - it's a linear sense of time defined by a materialistic sense of space. haha.

 

So the enteric nervous system is the 2nd largest "brain" of the body - the neurons are like 200 million in the small intestines and 90 percent of the vagus nerve is sending messages up to the brain - afferent nerves.

 

So you are getting a message from your 2nd biggest brain. haha.

 

Just do "Voo" in your mouth - it will create vibrations in your lower tan tien.

Edited December 22, 2015 by conspirachi

[vrihlea]

All these people trying to use scare tactics but the dude probably can't even sit in full lotus which is just basic practice.

 

you're right, I'm only half year through this, so my full lotus is still rusty. Would you say that one has to be able to do full lotus in order to be called a "serious" practitioner ?

 

and, since you seem to have some experience with this, what would be your recommendations for someone like me ?

[NotVoid]

Thank you for your concern. I am aware of the possible risks involved in all this, but since there's so much misinformation out there, I decided to try and figure out for my self.

I think/hope that it'll be enough to "listen" to my body and go with what feels right, also, in my opinion science has evolved enough, it should be possible to explain what's going on without the need of much mysticism.

For me this is more an experiment on "self suggestion" then a religious practice, and I'm writing this to leave a trace of some sort in case something "bad" will happen

 

In my own own experience, what we think and believe and expect at any given point in time isn't always very well in line with what is really going on. I think it is good to have an open mind however. Preconceptions can easily lead a person down the garden path. What seems right can easily be wrong when we are entering into what is for many of us fairly uncharted territory.

Best wishes...

Edited December 22, 2015 by NotVoid

[voidisyinyang]

you're right, I'm only half year through this, so my full lotus is still rusty. Would you say that one has to be able to do full lotus in order to be called a "serious" practitioner ?

 

and, since you seem to have some experience with this, what would be your recommendations for someone like me ?

 

20 minutes of full lotus equals 4 hours of any other type of meditation according to the "original qigong master" as I call him.

 

To say you're "rusty" indicates that you can at least get into it.

 

At first in the training the focus should actually be 3 times more standing active tai chi type exercises to 1 ratio of sitting meditation.

 

The key at first is to build up the "yin heel" channels in the legs - which converge at the "Ocean of Qi" which is actually below the lower tan tien.

 

So then you do sitting meditation as "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" which infuses your cerebrospinal fluid with qi and shen light and this overflows through your sinus out of the roof of the mouth - which is why the tongue is against the roof of the mouth. You swallow that "ambrosia" and it makes your stomach real hot. You don't eat or drink or piss for a half hour after meditation and so the qi in your stomach is then absorbed through the back of the stomach into your lower tan tien.

 

That's how your build up the lower tan tien. The ocean of qi is "yin jing" which is converted into fluid by reproductive thoughts - the pineal gland shoots qi down the spine to convert the yin jing into fluid - the yuan qi of the pineal gland originates on the right side of the heart - through the vagus nerve and the right side vagus nerve then goes down to the reproductive organs via the dorsal or back side of the body, and via connecting to the stomach and small intestines.

 

So if you get hungry that is your right side vagus nerve activating your stomach - which is why it's good to meditate as that will increase the vagus nerve activation of the pineal gland via the serotonin getting pumped up to the pineal gland via the small universe meditation.

 

So then any thoughts about reproductive then change the qi in the lower tan tien back into reproductive fluid - and so to counter this only Quick Fire - or deep hard breathing has the power to sublimate the fluid back into qi - best down as the standing active 7 beats per second vibration of the legs - along with moving of yin and yang.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_1sPDntOTs

 

The right hand is yin and upper body is yang and left hand is yang and lower body yin - so you create an AC battery of energy that charges up the qi.

 

that's why tai chi increases electrical conductance by 35% after only 15 minutes of practice!

 

That's the secret of the training that the West doesn't know about.

[Pyramidalcow]

20 minutes of full lotus equals 4 hours of any other type of meditation according to the "original qigong master" as I call him.

 

To say you're "rusty" indicates that you can at least get into it.

 

At first in the training the focus should actually be 3 times more standing active tai chi type exercises to 1 ratio of sitting meditation.

 

The key at first is to build up the "yin heel" channels in the legs - which converge at the "Ocean of Qi" which is actually below the lower tan tien.

 

So then you do sitting meditation as "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" which infuses your cerebrospinal fluid with qi and shen light and this overflows through your sinus out of the roof of the mouth - which is why the tongue is against the roof of the mouth. You swallow that "ambrosia" and it makes your stomach real hot. You don't eat or drink or piss for a half hour after meditation and so the qi in your stomach is then absorbed through the back of the stomach into your lower tan tien.

 

That's how your build up the lower tan tien. The ocean of qi is "yin jing" which is converted into fluid by reproductive thoughts - the pineal gland shoots qi down the spine to convert the yin jing into fluid - the yuan qi of the pineal gland originates on the right side of the heart - through the vagus nerve and the right side vagus nerve then goes down to the reproductive organs via the dorsal or back side of the body, and via connecting to the stomach and small intestines.

 

So if you get hungry that is your right side vagus nerve activating your stomach - which is why it's good to meditate as that will increase the vagus nerve activation of the pineal gland via the serotonin getting pumped up to the pineal gland via the small universe meditation.

 

So then any thoughts about reproductive then change the qi in the lower tan tien back into reproductive fluid - and so to counter this only Quick Fire - or deep hard breathing has the power to sublimate the fluid back into qi - best down as the standing active 7 beats per second vibration of the legs - along with moving of yin and yang.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_1sPDntOTs

 

The right hand is yin and upper body is yang and left hand is yang and lower body yin - so you create an AC battery of energy that charges up the qi.

 

that's why tai chi increases electrical conductance by 35% after only 15 minutes of practice!

 

That's the secret of the training that the West doesn't know about.

[vrihlea]

Quite a bit of info here, thanks