I seek answers and peace

[Pelly]

Hello,

 

I remember when I was a young man at a book store and my friend told me about this book that had words filled with wisdom. I didn't give it much thought. At the time I was an atheist and any books dealing with religion was, in my opinion, rubbish.

 

It wasn't until my 20's that I started studying world religions to prove that they were in fact, hogwash, and I came across my old friend's book, Tao Te Ching. As I sat down to read it, I started to realize how brilliant it was. I've been studying it ever since along with eastern and western philosophy.

 

Now, at age 30, I've lost my path to peace and I sign up to this board hoping to find my answers. It's true, with my studies of western philosophy, Christianity, and other moral and ethical studies. I've gathered all this knowledge and i grow more confused by the day.

 

Please, help me seek the answers.

 

My first question: The tao te ching speaks of having great virtue, what is virtue and how do I become virtuous?

 

I know it seems like an elementary question but again, being born into christian family and studying philosophy has confused me on what the true path to virtue actually is. 

[Chang]

Hello and welcome.

 

You are accepted and we are glad to have you as a member. You will find many confused souls here and not a little wisdom. It will be up to you to sort what is useful from what is not.

 

Your question regarding the Tao De Ching and the meaning of virtue would be better asked in the Taoist Discussion section as this section of the forum is really only for introductions.

 

Please take the time to read the two posts pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum terms and rules. This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Chang and the TTB team

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[soaring crane]

My first question: The tao te ching speaks of having great virtue, what is virtue and how do I become virtuous?

 

I know it seems like an elementary question but again, being born into christian family and studying philosophy has confused me on what the true path to virtue actually is. 

 

Hello and welcome, Pelly :-)

 

I'd say that's a very good question to post in this forum:

 

http://thedaobums.com/forum/179-daoist-discussion/

[C T]

Check out some videos by this really cool character by the name of Kyle Cease. May be on youtube, but definitely on facebook. He has this real down to earth way of explaining why/how people become slaves to their habits, and more importantly, what they can do to effectively and quickly gain freedom from those choices they have made in the past, that remained till the present, dictating their states of being, and which then determines how the future turns out. 

[thelerner]

Welcome

Virtue tends to leave peace and harmony in its wake. 

Maybe we should judge an action by its fruits.

Edited November 24, 2015 by thelerner

[Bud Jetsun]

The answer and peace is appreciation of emptiness.

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

[seekingbuddha]

Welcome, and my best wishes  to  you for progress in your  noble search.

[Horus]

Hi Pelly.

 

Please don't let all of the dogma and knowledge weigh you down...

 

Whether you like it or not organised religion was originally designed and currently maintained for one purpose - to separate you from tao, source, god.

 

There is no separation unless you heed it so.

 

Virtue is effortless right action in process, its about letting the heart lead the head - it is choosing the highest thing for the all in every moment.

 

The virtues are the master keys to the key essences of the five yin organs.

 

If you simply stayed "in the light" and made every choice a choice of the highest virtue - you would be stepping daily toward awakening from the illusion.

 

It is in your relationships that the greatest potential for awakening presents itself.

 

Fear in all myriad forms is the food of sleep; love in all myriad forms is the food for oneness with all.

 

Drop all the bullshit and live like your soul wants, not like the control systems tell you.

 

The control system/grid/matrix is seriously weakended, and is grappling to keep the many down as we are rising now.

 

Sink your teeth in and love the hate, compassionately embrace the fear and the fearful as they take up the offer of dread.

 

All that is not light is not you;it is you my friend - you are Virtue personified.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jadespear]

Hello,

 

I remember when I was a young man at a book store and my friend told me about this book that had words filled with wisdom. I didn't give it much thought. At the time I was an atheist and any books dealing with religion was, in my opinion, rubbish.

 

It wasn't until my 20's that I started studying world religions to prove that they were in fact, hogwash, and I came across my old friend's book, Tao Te Ching. As I sat down to read it, I started to realize how brilliant it was. I've been studying it ever since along with eastern and western philosophy.

 

Now, at age 30, I've lost my path to peace and I sign up to this board hoping to find my answers. It's true, with my studies of western philosophy, Christianity, and other moral and ethical studies. I've gathered all this knowledge and i grow more confused by the day.

 

Please, help me seek the answers.

 

My first question: The tao te ching speaks of having great virtue, what is virtue and how do I become virtuous?

 

I know it seems like an elementary question but again, being born into christian family and studying philosophy has confused me on what the true path to virtue actually is. 

 

Ah yes, the moral melee is quite obfuscating between everyone isn't it?........... which proves so much about this saying in the Tao Te Ching -

 

" True virtue is not virtuous

Therefore it has virtue. 

Superficial virtue never fails to be virtuous

Therefore it has no virtue. 

True virtue does not act

And has no intentions. 

Superficial virtue acts

And always has intentions

. True humaneness acts 

But has no intentions. 

True justice acts

But but has intentions. 

True propriety acts and if you don't respond

They will roll up their sleeves and threaten you. 

Thus, when the Tao is lost there is virtue

When virtue is lost there is humaneness

When humanenss is lost there is justice

And when justice is lost there is propriety. 

Now propriety is the external appearance of loyalty and sincerity

And the beginning of disorder.

 

Now seriously, isn't one of the main underlying themes of the Tao Te Ching, the encouragement to be able to think not in terms alone, but in their relative relationships and the dynamics behind, through, and after them?

 

 

More importantly, the other theme is the theme of being able to see the essence of something as its truth, rather than it's name as the truth of what it is.  This is quite simple right.... the map is not the territory.

 

So the words good, evil, virtue, are just words, nothing more, nothing less.  Words are according to the Tao Te Ching:

 

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named is not the eternal name

The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth

The named is the mother of myriad things

Thus, constantly without desire, one observes its essence

Constantly with desire, one observes its manifestations

These two emerge together but differ in name

The unity is said to be the mystery

Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders

[Jadespear]

So basically, the absolute answer to your question, is that there are countless and endless opportunities to be virtuous in life,  Lao Tze has simply outlined his observations about how people organize and assimilate information in society and how they cause certain consequences through their promotion of what is virtuous, which are at times - the exact opposite consequences of intended actions... (however virtuous they were thought to be), which illustrates how ironic life can be at times.

 

The Tao Te Ching is not really a book meant for intense spiritual practice.  It is much more a government treatise and a book designed to give philosophical reflection to people about the course of their society, we know this to be somehow historically true, because at the time it was written Lao Tze was disillusioned with the course that his society was heading, China was heading towards more imperialism, and more rules, and more machine-like hard living....... a direction that he saw as being a danger to everyone.  Thus the Tao Te Ching encourages a much more free flowing type of government and a much more isolated type of living to people....and it puts these ideas forth brilliantly through multiple literary mechanisms that do not ever really come out and say what they are trying to say, because to do so would be against the essence of the whole book.

[Ell]

I don't know if I'm "right" in this suggestion, or it's just me/my mindset, but for many who post here about their struggles with different aspects of Taoism, the last of the "three jewels" is the first lesson that comes to mind:

 

"Not daring to be first in the world."