Connecting the opposites... What could that mean?

[centertime]

A while ago I met somebody who told me that connecting opposites is somehow important. He did not explain in detail . As it was a basic knowledge in East.

Which could be a way to progress?

What could it mean? What opposites are connected? and where? and how? and why?

 

 

 

 

 

[Nikolai1]

Hi Centertime

 

The experience of the unenlightened person is characterised by one essential pair of opposites.  The indidual self with private experience Vs An outer world of shared experience.  Overcoming this pair of opposites, by uniting them, and understanding that inner and outer are the same thing is the most important pair of opposites we can overcome.

 

But there are many others, including good and evil, truth and falsity, beauty and ugliness.  These are all big ones, but overcoming are attachment to  notions of say, objective truth, will allow us to lead a more peaceful and spontaneous existence.

 

There are even more basic 'pairs of opposites' and in these we are already quite adept at overcoming them.  For example, right and left at the verbal level sounds as insurmountable as subject and object.  But we can all see that the coffee mug, with itts handle clearly on the right hand side, will appear on the left hand side to the person sat opposite us.  We are able to complement our raw vision of the mug with a kind of 'mind's eye' understanding that what is right is also left.

 

This skill brings us peace, harmony and mastery of our environment.

 

Reconcling the self / other pair of opposite is clearly a lot harder and takes much more work for us to see and believe it.  So many of the world's spiritual teachings are about overcoming this and experiencing the peace that comes where we realise that our very identity is nothing other than one half of a pair of perspectives.

 

C.G. Jung called the process of overcoming pairs of opppsites 'individuation' and has desribed in great detail the challenges and pitfalls of this work in a language accessible to the westerner.  In antiquity, the same process was often described in more alchemical terms, which is harder to understand.

 

I'd be happy to discuss this further if you have any questions!

[Nikolai1]

I should also say that consciously seeking to overcome the opposites is an intellectual or philosophical path.  If this kind of stuff isn't your inclination, you'll find that the same intellectual insights will occur spontaneously as the fruit of your practice, whatever it is.

 

When we follow one path consciously, we follow all the other paths unconsciously.

[Michael Sternbach]

There are even more basic 'pairs of opposites' and in these we are already quite adept at overcoming them.  For example, right and left at the verbal level sounds as insurmountable as subject and object.  But we can all see that the coffee mug, with itts handle clearly on the right hand side, will appear on the left hand side to the person sat opposite us.  We are able to complement our raw vision of the mug with a kind of 'mind's eye' understanding that what is right is also left.

 

This skill brings us peace, harmony and mastery of our environment.

 

Also to understand that what matters in a conflict is not who is right but who is left.

 

Reconcling the self / other pair of opposite is clearly a lot harder and takes much more work for us to see and believe it.  So many of the world's spiritual teachings are about overcoming this and experiencing the peace that comes where we realise that our very identity is nothing other than one half of a pair of perspectives.

 

C.G. Jung called the process of overcoming pairs of opppsites 'individuation' and has desribed in great detail the challenges and pitfalls of this work in a language accessible to the westerner.  In antiquity, the same process was often described in more alchemical terms, which is harder to understand.

 

I'd be happy to discuss this further if you have any questions!

 

That is going to be interesting.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, I have been accused (fairly) of being a reductionist.

 

Reductionism is what is being spoken to here.

[Nungali]

A while ago I met somebody who told me that connecting opposites is somehow important. He did not explain in detail . As it was a basic knowledge in East.

Which could be a way to progress?

What could it mean? What opposites are connected? and where? and how? and why?

 

Ummm  ying + Yang   =  dao .

 

Venus + Mars is regulated by Mercury. 

 

equal + and -  negates 'charge'

 

Severity + mercy  .... dont be too far one way or the other . 

 

Every coin has two sides .... see both points of view .... 

 

 

[thelerner]

In Western thinking an opposite is the total lack of it counterpart, whereas In Tao opposites create each other and are intimately linked.  Too much yin creates yang.  Its the realization that things cycle.  As seasons pass elemental forces create and destroy, changing into each other.   This is (imo) at the heart of Eastern strategy, arts and medicine.

from fivelementtraining.com

Edited November 26, 2015 by thelerner

[Bearded Dragon]

A while ago I met somebody who told me that connecting opposites is somehow important. He did not explain in detail . As it was a basic knowledge in East.

Which could be a way to progress?

What could it mean? What opposites are connected? and where? and how? and why?

 

There's always two sides of a coin. Typically it's when you don't care about either that you're free to choose one. Otherwise people typically get blindly stuck on one without seeing the other side. If you're talking about progress then I'd say just look from the outside.

[Songtsan]

There is: form is emptiness, emptiness is form. That's a good one. Oh yeah, try to connect the ideas of sameness and opposition. Finding the yin within the yang and yang within the yin is exemplified by this: In a cabin in the wintertime, there is a roasty toasty fire. The fire is yang to the air in the room, which is yin compared to the fire, but the air in the room is yang to the air outside...so its levels and levels. Are there really any opposites at all, anywhere? For every big and small, there is a bigger and smaller, ad infinitum. Arbitrary 'opposites' are just plain not true: black isn't the opposite of white, wrong not the opposite of right. Nonduality isn't opposed to duality. Sameness everywhere, yet nothing isn't unique, so nothing happens twice. If nothing happens twice, there can be no absolute categories, which is what the terms 'opposite' and 'same' are.

[Marblehead]

In ancient times, prior to human thinking, there were no opposites.  There just was what was.

[Nikolai1]

Everything we think about our own self has its opposite, and in our practice these must be reconciled and transcended.

 

One of the most fundamental aspects of our identity is our gender - male or female.  Over time we have absorbed all the traits of our gender, and come to assume that they are stable facts about who we are.

 

As we come to realise that our true nature is genderless, we are able to allow expressions that we normally associate with the opposite gender.  Likewise, we may learn not to automatically produce the stereotyped 'male' response (if we are men).

 

As this process continues, the dynamic tension between the two gender concepts disperses.  As men we are no longer fascinated by the outer expression of our own femininity - the woman. Whatever woman is, we are, and our sense of gender demarcating our reality is lost.

 

One obvious result of this is sexual disinterest - a naturally occurring celibacy.  The person who has discovered the true nature could not perform the sexual act.  Not only would it seem to them something wholly unneccessary, they would be impotent.  The union of the genders, which is one aspect of the purpose of humanity, has already been acheived in themselves.  No progeny are required to pick up where they left off.

 

This is one example, but it shows just how challenging a thoroughgoing union of the opposites is.  Though we accept that celibacy may be our portion in extreme old age, how many of us reallly want this to happen in the prime of life?

 

Those who do, often try to unite the opposed genders as as act of will - deliberate celibacy.  This will be doomed to failure unless it is a part of a honest, sincere and broad ranging strategy to realise our true (genderless) self.  Only this discovery will give us the confidence to shed one of the most essentially defining aspects of our ego - our gender.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"A while ago I met somebody who told me that connecting opposites is somehow important. He did not explain in detail . As it was a basic knowledge in East."

-----

 

In western culture people see opposites, like good and bad.

 

Wherein good must defeat bad.

 

Like heads and tails - important thing is to choose one or the other.

 

We can call this "dualism".

 

Eastern, and generally ancient, way is seeing unity in these "opposites".

 

We can call this "dualistic monism".

 

Seeing how Good is changing to Bad and Bad changing to Good.

 

Seeing that One coin has both head and tail.

 

So west is seeing separation, categories, opposites.

 

East is seeing unification as differentiation and differentiation as unity.

 

West is seeing different "things".

 

East is seeing process and change.

 

This is YinYang thinking.

 

Most people have seen Taiji symbol, which is constructed from this understanding.

 

There is much more to this, but this is introducing just basic idea of "unifying opposites".

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Edited November 26, 2015 by vonkrankenhaus

[centertime]

I think he might mean he finds opposite somewhere and connects them. 

It looks like an action or exercise which results in finding opposites and connecting. It looks like two steps in reality.

 

He could also mean that one can find two sides of his personality and may try to connect them.

E.g. you may have coward side and brave side.  If you connect them, both may balance each other. You may also feel less tension... As opposites can move one in two opposite directions creating tension... Like opposite goals...

You may know longer be irresponsibly brave, and maybe be less coward.

The more opposite you find in yourself and more balanced you can become..

Could be a tool to reduce extreme behavours in yourself and getting closer to the middle way?

Could be a way of expending your consciousness by holding two aspects in your mind at the same time?

 

 

Nikolai keeps writing about "overcoming" opposites?  Do you think it is the same as connecting them?

 

So it could be about and exercise/meditation/technique one can use to reduce opposites? 

Edited November 26, 2015 by centertime

[vonkrankenhaus]

And that is what it is like when one is raised in modern era Western thinking.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Daeluin]

This is a fundamental principle, and so it is subtle, and there are many applications and perspectives.

 

If something exists, and someone comes to oppose it, these two oppositional forces maintain each other, mutually defending against the other. If one vanished, what need would the other have for defensiveness? Then the opposition would vanish, and the militant posturing would vanish, and the result would be more openness.

 

This is easy to see in relationships, where one person judges another, or feels attacked by another. It often is unintentional, some subtle difference between the two triggering a discomfort that pushes them away from each other. And then one reacts, asking why the other had to do that, and the other becomes defensive not feeling like they did anything, and both people become polarized.

 

When people have unhealthy patterns, and their friends try to intervene, it is common for them to become defensive, and then they aren't open to change. However, if instead of trying to force the person to accept their issues, the friend shares space and is compassionate and nurturing, openness is cultivated between the two, and rather than feeling threatened and becoming closed off the person becomes more open and more likely to bring up their issues and cultivate desire for healing on their own.

 

The dao de jing speaks of country's that fight each other, saying it makes more sense for them to simply allow the invasion. If there is never any fighting, but the one country embraces the desires of the invading country freely, it is less likely there will be as much violence and pillaging, and when the invaders settle, they cannot help but be influenced by the minds of the people they invaded, or vice versa. 

 

It is when we attach to one something as being the only right, that we come to resist change. It is this resistance that creates conflict and polarization. Without the resistance, there is adaptation. Change is constant, and the better we are able to adapt the better we are able to evolve. Even in times of war, if we are strong and able to maintain our balance amidst catastrophic changes, we help to negate polarizing forces by dissolving their polarity and drawing them in to an ever evolving center of balance.

 

Thus if we feel a certain religion is imbalanced, fighting against it is likely to create a strong polarity that maintains it even more than before. However, if we allow its reach to absorb us, then our inner balance draws it closer to balance as it too absorbs our balanced ideas and ways of being.

 

If we feel a certain government is too filled with rules and regulations, we can fight against them to create our own rules and regulations, but those will eventually be fought against by others, and many polarities are created in disconnection to each other, resulting in stagnation. On the other hand, if we simply adapt to the rules, living so as not to go against them, we have room to work between the rules. If we do this out of selfish desire, perhaps we will draw opposition. However if live in a way that is centered and balanced, we are unlikely to offend others, and can build up ways of living that begin to dissolve the need for so many rules.

 

It is the same in the body. The more we attach to knowing in order to do the right thing, the more stagnant our energy system becomes, because we are holding on to so much that efficient internal flows become inhibited. The more we find a way to adapt and flow harmoniously with our environment in simply ways, content to support ourselves without desires or ambitions, the more the attachments dissolve and health returns. It is always about finding balance between the extremes.

 

This principle is not simply about opposition, but opposition within change. Things tend to oscillate more like a sine wave, or a spiral. Thus it becomes not so much about becoming balanced between two points on a line, but becoming balanced between all points in a circle, or sphere. Doing this returns us to the heart of things.

[Michael Sternbach]

Whenever you arrive at the reconciliation of two opposite forces within your psyche, a new balance and expansion will be the result. From the union of the two, a third one is born.

 

Thesis - Antithesis - Synthesis

Edited November 26, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Nungali]

Whenever you arrive at the reconciliation of two opposite forces within your psyche, a new balance and expansion will be the result. From the union of the two, a third one is born.

 

Thesis - Antithesis - Synthesis

 

Then I see it the synthesis from the   3 forces making a new unity of them all.  There is the two opposite forces the 'reconciliation'  making the triangle ( with the third being the synthesis -  or 'Saturn') , from the union of the three a new one is born ... this is the spark or seed (of the synthesis) that has the potential to cross the abyss (from the 'ideal world' ) towards the 'real' . Or diagrammatically , the triangle creates a point in the middle that can be extended 'up' making a  tetrahedron  ( or in 2D .... the spark breaks down through the abyss , out of the 'ideal' world. )

 

But before this 'second duality'   manifests .... 

 

This sums it up nicely ; 

 

 

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/52d8500be4b08b61cb1a6def/t/5501c9eee4b0d74448adfbbb/1426180604656/

 

 

The Supernal Triad.

 

I suppose then,  the new  synthesis, born in the psyche moves towards manifesting,  (as it moves 'down' through the 'planetary spheres' ) eventually in the physical; effecting changes in one's life 

Edited November 27, 2015 by Nungali

[Nikolai1]

I suppose then,  the new  synthesis, born in the psyche moves towards manifesting,  (as it moves 'down' through the 'planetary spheres' ) eventually in the physical; effecting changes in one's life 

There is something very profound in this post, thank you!

 

But what happens in this scenario?

 

We have a view of ourselves as individuals in time and space (thesis).

 

Through meditation we see that we are also silent witnesses in which time and space occur in us (antithesis)

 

Our selfhood seems to be neither in space and time, out of it, both or neither (synthesis)

 

How does this sttange paradoxical synthetic sense of ourselves start to manifest in reality? Is is just the same way as it always has when we took ourselves to be egos with a will that operates within constraints? Or is it something different?

 

(Bear in mind that lots of people discover their witness self, but they do not manage to synthesise with their egoic self.  They simply stay at the thesis / antithesis level of opposites where ego is now false self and witness is true self.)

Edited November 27, 2015 by Nikolai1

[Marblehead]

Earth's climate and geology change over time.  Earth's Nature does not.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Earth's climate and geology change over time.  Earth's Nature does not."

-----

 

Would the Earth's "Nature" mean what the Earth actually is?

 

It appears that every manifested ("existing") thing does change.

 

I think that the solar system is a spiral system.

 

Such that the planets actually move, over billions of years, in towards the Sun.

 

And as they move, they change shape and size.

 

Jupiter and Saturn are huge gas giants with many moons.

 

Saturn will move through the asteroid belt, be pummeled, and become Mars.

 

Mars will lose one moon and expand due to increasing solar radiation closer to the Sun.

 

Its water will expand from the heating and melt over the surface.

 

"Plate techtonics" will begin.

 

If we took a model of Earth and crushed it until the continents meet, it will be the same size as Mars is now.

 

Because the Earth used to be Mars.

 

And so on.

 

The rates of expansion/contraction may be linked to the rotation orbit of the solar system around the center of this galaxy, producing alternating expansion and contraction of the solar system.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Marblehead]

Re:

-----

"Earth's climate and geology change over time.  Earth's Nature does not."

-----

 

Would the Earth's "Nature" mean what the Earth actually is?

 

It appears that every manifested ("existing") thing does change.

That was just a trick post to cause some thought.

 

Yeah, Earth's Nature is its Tzujan.  This can never change.

 

Yes, the Earth actually is.  It is one of the Ten Thousand Things.  And it will do what it does, naturally.

 

This Tzujan of Earth is what causes its climate and geology to change.  (We humans are helping with the climate.)

 

Yeah, the Earth is likely "destined" to become part of the sun.  But that won't be for a while yet.

 

Earth and Venus are opposites.  Earth and Mars are opposites.  But each has its own Tzujan so really there is no way to really set one against the other.

 

I guess the reason I made that post was to point out that just because we observe opposites in the universe, in truth, everything has its own Tzujan so comparisons are illogical.

 

But we humans still use the "opposites" concept because our brain functions that way.  But we need remember that the opposites are just our interpretation and not an actual reality.

[Stosh]

A while ago I met somebody who told me that connecting opposites is somehow important. He did not explain in detail . As it was a basic knowledge in East.

Which could be a way to progress?

What could it mean? What opposites are connected? and where? and how? and why?

You should have asked him what he meant, since seeing things as paired opposites really isnt any different from dualistic monism,( same number of letters even) . However eastern wisdom IMO lies in realizing that the best solution, is not at the extremes, but in the middle. ( ironically , choosing the middle as most virtuous , sets itself polemic to the extremes! ) So,,in the east one pretends virtue is moderate , not pointing in any general direction ,,and in the west ,one pretends its absolute in direction.

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"You should have asked him what he meant, since seeing things as paired opposites really isnt any different from dualistic monism"

-----

 

No - that is just plain "dualism".

 

Dualistic Monism sees Unity in all of these "opposites".

 

We use "dualistic monism" as a modern way of referring to YinYang thinking of Taoism.

 

Lists of "paired opposites" is a western concept that we call "dualistic".

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Marblehead]

 

We use "dualistic monism" as a modern way of referring to YinYang thinking of Taoism.

I have never used that term/concept but thinking on it, I think it is valid.  (But I haven't thought enough about it to say anything further.)

[Stosh]

VK,

I contend they are the same. Light side of the mountain, shadow of the valley, see the pairing? And you must admit a pairing so intimate, is a union of sorts. Why should you feel cause to preserve an imaginary rift? If yang behavior is to be eschewed, yin behavior promoted,,then the distinctions have been preserved, ,, Right and wrong,, good and bad, beauty and ugliness,, are preserved ,reborn perhaps, as soon as virtue is distinguished, vice is outlined, and from there the departure from monism has taken root. There is no actual dualistic opposite to that which is concrete, a banana is not an opposite to a donut...mass is not an opposite to energy. Join me and agree you have been wrong.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Stosh