Connecting the opposites... What could that mean?

[Marblehead]

... a banana is not an opposite to a donut...mass is not an opposite to energy.

This I can easily agree with.

 

Join me and agree you have been wrong.

But I'm not wrong.  To agree with you would be a lie.

 

And I just agreed with you above because what you said is valid.

 

Your car and your camera are not the same.  But they are not opposites.  And sometimes they both are at the same location.  Actually, the camera is within the car.  For a given length of time they could be said to be one.But they will part ways.  You will take it with you or if you leave it on the seat someone else will take it.

[Michael Sternbach]

Then I see it the synthesis from the   3 forces making a new unity of them all.  There is the two opposite forces the 'reconciliation'  making the triangle ( with the third being the synthesis -  or 'Saturn') , from the union of the three a new one is born ... this is the spark or seed (of the synthesis) that has the potential to cross the abyss (from the 'ideal world' ) towards the 'real' . Or diagrammatically , the triangle creates a point in the middle that can be extended 'up' making a  tetrahedron  ( or in 2D .... the spark breaks down through the abyss , out of the 'ideal' world. )

 

But before this 'second duality'   manifests .... 

 

This sums it up nicely ; 

 

 http://static1.squarespace.com/static/52d8500be4b08b61cb1a6def/t/5501c9eee4b0d74448adfbbb/1426180604656/

 

 

The Supernal Triad.

 

I suppose then,  the new  synthesis, born in the psyche moves towards manifesting,  (as it moves 'down' through the 'planetary spheres' ) eventually in the physical; effecting changes in one's life 

 

The Dao De Jing, ch. 42 goes:

 

Tao produces one

One produces two

Two produce three

Three produce myriad things

 

Nungungungu, you are the most Daoist non-Daoist that I have met so far.

[Stosh]

Mh, should I figure it that you think the views part ways, beginning together? I dont see where. You provide no rationale to assist me in reaching an agreeing position. I do see however, abundantly the interwoven nature of the isms. The donut has no opposite, but you conceive truth from lie. I dont see where the isms are parted. Is this dualistic monism or is the pairing of opposites, ?alternating with monism.

[Michael Sternbach]

There is something very profound in this post, thank you!

 

But what happens in this scenario?

 

We have a view of ourselves as individuals in time and space (thesis).

 

Through meditation we see that we are also silent witnesses in which time and space occur in us (antithesis)

 

Our selfhood seems to be neither in space and time, out of it, both or neither (synthesis)

 

How does this sttange paradoxical synthetic sense of ourselves start to manifest in reality? Is is just the same way as it always has when we took ourselves to be egos with a will that operates within constraints? Or is it something different?

 

(Bear in mind that lots of people discover their witness self, but they do not manage to synthesise with their egoic self.  They simply stay at the thesis / antithesis level of opposites where ego is now false self and witness is true self.)

 

Your understanding of yourself as a being unbound by time and space might express itself as psychic/clairvoyant experiences. Whether you seek them or they occur spontaneously, they are very common during certain phases when following a path of spiritual awakening.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"There is no actual dualistic opposite to that which is concrete"

-----

 

That which is not concrete.

 

The opposite of all manifestation is the unmanifest.

 

But our Dualistic Monism sees the unity in that, the process of it, and not so much the distinct "thingness" of pure Dualism.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Marblehead]

Mh, should I figure it that you think the views part ways, beginning together? I dont see where. You provide no rationale to assist me in reaching an agreeing position. I do see however, abundantly the interwoven nature of the isms. The donut has no opposite, but you conceive truth from lie. I dont see where the isms are parted. Is this dualistic monism or is the pairing of opposites, ?alternating with monism.

I don't even know if I have a point I am trying to make.

 

We think dualisticly.  In reality there are no opposites.  There is simply "what is".

 

Yes, there are differences between truths and lies.  These might be called opposites but don't have to be.

 

I don't hold to the concept of anti-matter so for me there are no opposites of any of the Ten Thousand Things.

 

So, to the thread title, "Connecting the opposites" is simply mental masturbation because there really are no opposites.

[Nungali]

The Dao De Jing, ch. 42 goes:

 

you are the most Daoist non-Daoist that I have met so far.

 

 

Oh no! 

 

I know little of daoism ... remember. 

 

But I know how 'nature' works.   

 

[  I can even tell you a few Aboriginal myths that would reflect  Ch 42.  ....  also something about a giant snake asleep underneath Australia ... producing 'myriad forms' that are the original (or perhaps 'Platonic' forms )  that create further myriad things of that form  ... but best not to mention giant dreaming snakes , it seems to upset some people ... as does finding the common theme within the myriad forms in their specific fields ;   "You cant compare what Plato says, with Daoism , Greek  and Roman Mythology, psychology, Aboriginal superstition  and  ....      "               ] 

 

 

 

https://sw.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nungunungu    -

 

 

https://tonyintanzania.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/1.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

   (Swahili ... I might be a bit spikey but   {that was a joke, the other time }  )

 

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ngali       ( we, us,  together      ... shared mother lingo >  proto (mother) Bundjalung >  Gumbaynggirr >  'Old man in Mountain' ;

 

http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/things-to-do/Lookouts/Skywalk-lookout

 

http://www.timaickin.com.au/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=17115&g2_serialNumber=2

 

( He is looking straight at my cabin,  front garden / paddock     ) 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nungali_language     >    to proto central NSW  from  north  - displacement from sea level rise, end of last ice age.  

 

 

...  So Nungali encapsulates all that - but not 'porcupines'  (echidna)    ... which are also very good to eat   

 

.. but not when they are a mere 'puggle' .. too cute ! 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

although they are 'one thing'  that  manifests a myriad things

 

 

 

[Nungali]

I don't even know if I have a point I am trying to make.

 

We think dualisticly.  In reality there are no opposites.  There is simply "what is".

 

Yes, there are differences between truths and lies.  These might be called opposites but don't have to be.

 

I don't hold to the concept of anti-matter so for me there are no opposites of any of the Ten Thousand Things.

 

So, to the thread title, "Connecting the opposites" is simply mental masturbation because there really are no opposites.

 

 

What about  in the context of 'forces' ... any 'action' creates an equal and opposite reaction ?

Edited November 28, 2015 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

What about  in the context of 'forces' ... any 'action' creates an equal and opposite reaction ?

Wait a minute.  Why opposite?  Any action creates results.  That's all that can be said.

[centertime]

Wait a minute.  Why opposite?  Any action creates results.  That's all that can be said.

\if you have a "resistance" somewhere, then opposite force is generated...

[Stosh]

Re:

-----

"There is no actual dualistic opposite to that which is concrete"

-----

 

That which is not concrete.

 

The opposite of all manifestation is the unmanifest.

 

But our Dualistic Monism sees the unity in that, the process of it, and not so much the distinct "thingness" of pure Dualism.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Iff.all that EXists is one, existing thing, Then what is not manifest is that which is not existing=. Monist view.

That a thing can and does have an opposite, = dualism

Your view? That the only thing that exists has an opposite, which doesnt exist.=dualistic monism

Or sometimes a thing has an intellectual opposite but materially speaking there are no opposites =Stosh view= Common sense.

 

 

[Stosh]

I have seen Plato's cup and table, but not his cupness and tableness.

[Stosh]

I don't even know if I have a point I am trying to make.

 

We think dualisticly.  In reality there are no opposites.  There is simply "what is".

 

Yes, there are differences between truths and lies.  These might be called opposites but don't have to be.

 

I don't hold to the concept of anti-matter so for me there are no opposites of any of the Ten Thousand Things.

 

So, to the thread title, "Connecting the opposites" is simply mental masturbation because there really are no opposites.

Great Mh, Since as Captain Barbosa stated, It appears we have an accord. ,I looked up the antimatter thing, its just matter with a reversed spin, its still affected by gravity, the anti is just hype.

[Marblehead]

\if you have a "resistance" somewhere, then opposite force is generated...

Disagree.  The only valid thing that can be said is that resistance will reduce or eliminate the results.

[Marblehead]

Great Mh, Since as Captain Barbosa stated, It appears we have an accord.

Yeah, you and I most often do attain agreement or at least an understanding when we talk long enough.

 

,I looked up the antimatter thing, its just matter with a reversed spin, its still affected by gravity, the anti is just hype.

I haven't even done that much inquiry.  The anti-matter concept just doesn't sit well with me.

 

I did hear once though that when matter and anti-matter collide a great amount of energy is released.  Of course, recalling that energy cannot be destroyed I end up with "Duh".

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Iff.all that EXists is one, existing thing, Then what is not manifest is that which is not existing=. Monist view.
That a thing can and does have an opposite, = dualism
Your view? That the only thing that exists has an opposite, which doesnt exist.=dualistic monism
Or sometimes a thing has an intellectual opposite but materially speaking there are no opposites =Stosh view= Common sense."

-----

 

That is some real confusion.

 

Ever examine a chessboard, taiji symbol, or cross?

 

They are maps, roadmaps through this concept of One, Two, physical, nonphysical, etc.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Stosh]

One of us is confused Ill wager, I just dont think its me. What does a cross have to do with any of this? As far as I was told, after the death of Jesus, the symbol was invented to mock and insult his followers, as in, Ha ha, your guy was shown to be nothing special ,by getting killed in a horrendous way. That it was adopted later , wisely and with much spin, to represent sacrifice ,love , and gods power..doesnt support that the design was made with pleasant connotation. Just that the followers refused the insult.

 

The taijii is a perfectly good symbol for dualism, The earth fire water stuff comparatively is a better refutation of duality.

 

Chessboard? I dont see anything in it.

[Brian]

 

Wait a minute. Why opposite? Any action creates results. That's all that can be said.

If only you would do a little digging on your own...

[Stosh]

Digging on ones own reveals that resistance isnt a force. Its a conceptual thing, not actual, resistance is the dissipation of the applied force. Conservation of mass and energy, remember that far back.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Stosh

[Brian]

Digging on ones own reveals that resistance isnt a force. Its a conceptual thing, not actual, resistance is the dissipation of the applied force. Conservation of mass and energy, remember that far back.

Resistance is merely a counterforce. It, in turn, results in another equality and opposite reaction. The only cases in which Newton's third law hasn't been demonstrated are on the quantum level, where cause & effect are found to take on a more nuanced meaning. Mh doesn't believe in that, either, so I won't go there.

 

Everyone is free to shape his or her own belief system but, if we express them, we should expect to have people point out to us when our beliefs don't hold water.

 

My post was just a soft jab to remind Mh that he's got his head in the sand again.

 

[Daeluin]

Everyone is free to shape his or her own belief system but, if we express them, we should expect to have people point out to us when our beliefs don't hold water.

 

I know Mh doesn't like criticism, and I never intend to criticize him. We're all friends here. Funny though, how swimming against the current is more difficult than flowing with it.

 

On the other hand, I think we all need to find our own currents rather than flowing with the one we're told to.

 

And yet, if we're really centered in our own current, there tends to be less resistance from other people's currents.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Daeluin

[Stosh]

pick a system at constant mass constant energy, add some energy, the energy level doesnt miraculously double ,nor does it self neutralize, it just goes up by the amount of energy applied.

Cmon This should be like kindergarten stuff to you. Why are you fighting it? His head isnt in sand, hes perfectly correct.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Stosh

[Nungali]

Wait a minute.  Why opposite?  Any action creates results.  That's all that can be said.

 

I guess because , if you push something, in one direction   it 'pushes back' in the other direction (not another direction ) ....  if you throw something up ( i.e. in one direction )  it comes back down in the opposite direction ( not in a direction or any direction, the opposite direction, unless there is wind, or another force. 

 

Mass/Energy has a 'static stability ' holding 'opposite' forces , like   0 ( static M/E)  =  n^- + n+  . 

Edited November 28, 2015 by Nungali

[Brian]

pick a system at constant mass constant energy, add some energy, the energy level doesnt miraculously double ,nor does it self neutralize, it just goes up by the amount of energy applied.

Cmon This should be like kindergarten stuff to you. Why are you fighting it? His head isnt in sand, hes perfectly correct.

Where did I suggest that energy levels magically double or that energy self-neutralizes? Mh just rejected Newton's third law simply because he doesn't like it -- despite nearly 400 years of experiential evidence supporting it -- and I suggested he might want to look into that a bit.