Regarding Kong, empty-force and it's understanding - Nature to it

[4bsolute]

There is much going around this topic and you here and there see videos pop up where "Masters" work with their "students" in mysterious way, bouncing them around like a puppet

The more I meditate the more easily for me personally it is to grasp the concept of nothingness and hereby I excuse myself to even bring in a concept in the dialogue of nothingness, but you understand

But what is it all about that Kong, empty-force (empty.. what force btw?) has different effects on the individual

Why are masters mostly exclusively training these actions with students and not with anyone?

Answers are given like "great chi, less injured" and all of that that implies that it better works with cultivators of their chi, instead of "random people"

Is that really so? Or is it not a game of beliefs why it works and when it does not?

But when it does work for individuals on truly random people and someone figures out why it then works, this most likely will be the answer:


First of all one must have a clear understanding what nothingness is or one can not utilize anything from this primordial state

After this state personality is created, for creation is created

So

Stay close to nothingness and partake in the very subtle and first moments out of it, act from them and this "Kong", utilized through our human vessel, might work in all circumstances with other objects.

Questionmark

Now if that objects is a human, with multiple layers of reality to it, it holds the same framework as you or me. And that means that the closer the consciousness if this body is at the purity or stillness as yours, to total stillness or emptiness or nothingness, the more ability to direct that energy is possible.

The more solid, the less it works

Questionmark

Personality is consciousness becoming solid, very defined

For many it might not work or because they are heavily in their personality and mind and have created a bond of beliefs with their students and them to the their teacher and so it only works in that set-up framework.

The more letting go and the thinner the will to direct anything at all is, might here be the given factor of "manipulation".

Lama Dondrup Dorje also speaks about not manipulating or acting in rivalry, but as much as I go hand-in-hand with his findings and my own lifestyle in relaxing into this moment completely, he still manipulates on some level. ANY influence on energy is a manipulation.

So might the purity of intent be here factor and determines just That what I wrote about before?

But then again, why should purity be closer to nothingness than "impurity" when nothingness or kong, holds both?

Is the ability to direct energy only able in a state of clarity?

If "high" is clarity and "low" is dullness, why then do we also feel extremely clear in our perception when we let go both of "high" and "low"? Biggest questionmark in this thread Does high incorporate more emptiness then low?

Okaynever mind I dont want to delete this to show what can happen when you actually, half-physically write out what is going on in your mind, that you can give yourself the answer:

We speak of high as mind and low as matter. Energy and matter. The purer our mind is, the more our consciousness is in mind, is in energy. Our consciousness is director. So if we are low, in matter, there is nothing really to direct. Surely there might be a certain degree of perception due to consciousness is free from high and low, but nothing moves (much).

The answer would then be, to be full of virtue in order to be able to direct energy most fluidly and freely. The energy itself is this nothingness, pure energy, without Any context to it. This energy becomes colored, when it comes into contact or is expressed by, an individual. The "more" it becomes colored, the denser it becomes.

So in conclusion that means, the "more" personality you hold in your consciousness, the more difficult it becomes to direct anything

The thinner your personality is (full of virtue is very clear) the more able you are to direct energy

And there is only "one" stream of energy

In essence there is only emptiness or kong (if that is even the right translation for emptiness and does not mean empty"force" - apologies)

This emptiness lateron gets split and divided and shaped and colored by intent

The purere the intent, the closer to no-intent, the "stronger" this force remains


This seems to sum up what is going on in all of the "frauds" and fails and successul directions of the presentation of this      S    P    A     C      E       here all around us

[Chang]

I am afraid that the concept of Kong Jing or empty force is a subject that raises its head on this forum every now and again.

 

It is a very attractive concept I will admit but I have yet to meet anyone who can express this force. I also have yet to meet anyone who has met anyone who can express this force.

 

You mention Lama Dondrup Dorje in your post and I know that he purports to be a proponent of Kong Jing (along with much else) but I remain unconvinced.

 

To sum up I will state that whilst the concept of Kong Jing is not beyond belief I am unable to give examples to prove that there are practitioners who can express this energy so as to effect another person.

[thelerner]

In Ki-Aikido we have touchless throws.  On one level its timing and a psychological.  There is also the phenomena of people who've worked together for years tend to develop a simpatico, that can cross rooms.  There's a link between them that allows one to throw the other from across the room.  It looks like bullshit, its not a useful martial arts skill, unless you're attacked by a person you've closely trained with.  Its also a somewhat high level skill, there is some energy beyond psychological to it.

 

Here's an example, note I wasn't there for it.  My Sensei had a class that had some touchless throws in it.  They shared the room with a judo group.  A man from that group came over and doubted it'd work.  My sensei said lets see.  They did the set up, ie man comes forward punches.  Boom he's down on the ground and say's 'You hit me' and my sensei says back 'No, you didn't get out of the way.'

 

What happens with that 'style' of touchless throw is you go down to avoid a hand that coming at you circling from above.  With people the level of my sensei that hand might as well be a 200# rock.  We fall to avoid getting hit.  If you ignore the touchless part, some types of no touch throw have the hit built in. 

 

Part of that 200# rock phenomena would be explained by my sensei John Eley (I've been out over 15 years) as the 'nothing that is something'.  Get the right combination of relaxation and intent, mix in good body movement and there a freaky non-muscular power available. 

 

I'm not a fan of Steven Seagal, but I've seen videos of him teaching Aikido and it looks solid, I'd love to take a class with him.  In one video he disses the no touch throw, yet later in the video you clearly see his uke (attacker/victim) move and drop at times without contact.  Why, cause at times its better to drop then take one more expertly given clothesline.   Its a survival mechanism and not a bad one, the ability to hit the floor roll and get up immediately.    An Aikidoist should be friends with the floor. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by thelerner

[soaring crane]

I knocked a guy over once during a Zhanzhuang workshop. I was standing high mabu, looking straight ahead and he was pushing on my left shoulder while I was focussed on my right foot. The sifu (Lam Kam Chuen) walked by and told me to look at the guy, so I turn my head to the left, and BAMMO, he went back a good three feet. I hadn't done anything intentionally, and can't rememeber feeling anything special, but the guy said it felt like I'd jolted him hard with my shoulder.

 

BUT, like TheLearner say, there's psychology involved here. When I turned my head, I Iooked him straight in the eyes, and he was possibly ready for something to happen. That jolt probably cam from inside him, and not from me. So ... sympatico is a good word to keep in mind whenever you come across anyone demostrating these things.

[4bsolute]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJwLKDu2Pj8

to our eyes it looks silly, because we are so influenced by the very movies we have created and how we, from mind to mind, say ourselves how it has to look. And if by nature, it does not look that way, it must be wrong

mind is so funny, human especially, at times. but Nature, always knows (better/complete) and as soon as we include our mind into "what is" and listen, we possibly get it right away - high chance. Source: simple meditation

Edited November 30, 2015 by 4bsolute

[NotVoid]

4bsolute, if that is not a faked or otherwise altered video clip, it looks to me like the white van got snagged on a cable that was laying across the road, which then yanked the wire taut and caused the two other vehicles to get lifted up. Just how it looks.

[thelerner]

4bsolute, if that is not a faked or otherwise altered video clip, it looks to me like the white van got snagged on a cable that was laying across the road, which then yanked the wire taut and caused the two other vehicles to get lifted up. Just how it looks.

That's what I heard.  Can't see any cable but it seems like its that or Magneto's on the loose and he's angry. 

[Aetherous]

Those damn kongjing masters practicing in the street again!

[Horus]

The closest I've come in a few years of training the empty force is making my whole house crack. The force is real, but it takes a lot of training to make it powerful.

 

When I train the empty force I can feel the potential power growing. I'll merge with the energy in the room around me and via intention (Yi) I can direct the external energy fields and the house cracks, readjusting its minute positions in the building frame under the force, I've done the same with furniture.

 

Based on my progress so far, and the current density of the planet, and my own bodies, I'd expect to be able to move things around in about 1500 years more training