Beyond the spiritual heart

[Jonesboy]

Also you experience a merging of your sense of self with your friends, and the things around you, because you actively cultivate merging. So really no surprise there. You are getting what you want.

And you see value in this.

I see a lot of value in it. You can see why I hope.

[Apech]

Beyond the Spiritual Heart

 

I lift an eye-glass South-ward

Toward the great grey mass cloud

Lit from behind by the bleaching sun

And one lone bird wavers in the light

Its albatross wings hang hooking hot air

And we sigh.  If I caught that sound

To recollect the moment it would be nothing,

Nothing again repeated by our lost bodies,

Which if we gave them up completely

We could fly, draped in William Blake cloth

Until we crossed the frontier and

Drifted out to the Island of the Blue Pearl.

No pirates would dare, nor sea monsters lurk,

Because that shore is forbidden

And has no equal.

[Tibetan_Ice]

...

Edited December 11, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[dawei]

Books I recommend about the third eye are Samuel Sagan's "Awakening the Third Eye". Also, "Merging With Shiva".

 

Thanks.  I still recall your advice to me on 3rd eye pressure... closing in on 365 days later  

 

 

 

P.S.  If you'd really prefer I move those posts back to prana, let me know... 

[3bob]

"so I will offer what I can"  by TI

 

which sounds like an "x" amount of bragging

Edited December 10, 2015 by 3bob

[Tibetan_Ice]

...

Edited December 11, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Bindi]

If you are going to say that I continually state something, you could at least post something that I have said (not two other people ).

 

From the thread 'with any realisation'

 

Jeff, on 27 June 2015 - 10:14 AM, said

 

The "light" that is being described cannot seen as a color, shape or picture, it is clear (or pure) light. Any "seeing" is a translation (and hence then attached) in (local) mind.

 

 

 

 

But as it can apparently be seen with the 3rd eye, even if you haven't personally seen it and don't value that level of seeing, I would still like you to describe what this 3rd eye perception of transmission light looks like from what you have been told.

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by Bindi

[3bob]

Jesus never did out of the ordinary acts without being moved by the Spirit to do so, thus not by His need alone, along with the fact that he had zero interest in private bragging rights.

 

(also knowing that, "loose lips sink ships" so to speak) 

[子泰]

Assassin's Greed

[Apech]

Assassin's Greed

 

Call of Beauty.

[Marblehead]

Assassin's Greed

In its truest sense, that is a contradiction in terms.

[Jeff]

Jesus never did out of the ordinary acts without being moved by the Spirit to do so, thus not by His need alone, along with the fact that he had zero interest in private bragging rights.

 

(also knowing that, "loose lips sink ships" so to speak) 

 

Excellent point. It should also be realized that it really about the "recieving" (faith and trust in the divine), then any "doing"...

 

“And Jesus went with him; and much people followed him, and thronged him. And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing. But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭5:24-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[Nikolai1]

Ramana Maharshi apparently avoided touching people, and did not want them to touch him.

[Apech]

Ramana Maharshi apparently avoided touching people, and did not want them to touch him.

 

?

 

[Bindi]

Excellent point. It should also be realized that it really about the "recieving" (faith and trust in the divine), then any "doing"...

 

And yet...

 

 

…everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did…

 

Luke 9:43

 

 

Teaching and healing (and performing miracles occasionally) involved a lot of doing.

 

In the gospels, Jesus was very active, he didn't just sit around 'receiving', and having faith and trust.

 

But the doing would have been for the sake of the Father, not for the sake of his ego.

 

 

He also sent the Twelve out to do...

 

Luke 9:1-2

When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

 

 

 

“And Jesus went with him; and much people followed him, and thronged him. And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years, And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse, When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment. For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole. And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague. And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes? And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me? And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing. But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth. And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭5:24-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Bindi

[Bindi]

I see a lot of value in it. You can see why I hope.

 

Tom, I can see why you value it.

[Jetsun]

And yet Bindi I and others are able to do the following:

 

Yoga Sutras of Patanjali: http://www.swamij.com/yoga-sutras-33949.htm

 

3.39 By loosening or letting go of the causes of bondage and attachment, and by following the knowledge of how to go forth into the passages of the mind, there comes the ability to enter into another body.

(bandha karana shaithilyat prachara samvedanat cha chittasya para sharira aveshah)

[Note: In some renditions this is sutra 3.37 or 3.38]

 

bandha = bondage, attachment

karana = cause

shaithilyat = relaxation, letting go, loosening

prachara = passages, means of going forth, moving through

samvedanat = by knowledge of

cha = and

chittasya = of the consciousness of the mind-field

para = another, other

sharira = body

aveshah = entering into

Entering another body: By loosening or letting go of the causes of bondage and attachment, and by following the knowledge of how to go forth into the passages of the mind, there comes the ability to enter into another body. The advanced yogi may use this power to operate through another body in service of others, such as for guiding sincere students of meditation.

 

Because I know there is no difference between you and I. I know there is no seperation between me and a diety like Jesus or chenzirig for example. Because I know there is no seperation between me and you and Jesus I am able to merge others to Divine beings.

 

Jeff, me and other's do this daily. We have demonstrated this here and at our site.

 

Is it beneficial?

 

Merging with another or even a divine being isn't necessarily anything to do with non-duality, merging can be a sign of co-dependency and a breakdown in the development of healthy autonomy. In relationships it is quite common for people to try to merge with another, especially if they have a traumatic history or that of neglect. So they feel the others feelings and life in their own body to a very accurate degree, which may appear like a form of unity and can feel reassuring and pleasant at first, but the long term loss is a loss in your own autonomous feelings and healthy emotional development. In psychological terms it can be viewed as an attachment disorder based upon lack or separation anxiety, so you seek to fill it with someone else.

 

Merging may increase skills like empathy and even psychic ability and give temporary relief to suffering, so many classify it as spiritual, but by abandoning your own centre you are actually avoiding genuine intimacy with a substitute. What they call awakening or non-duality isn't about merging into something else, it is about the breaking down of the illusion of the separate sense of I which wants to merge in the first place.

 

In my own energetic training those who have a history of merging and feel little boundaries with others may have a weakened etheric body and may even have holes in it, so strengthening that would be a good healthy step. I don't know if the kind of merging which people get up to here is the good type or not but I thought it was worth noting that not all merging is necessarily spiritual or a sign of strong spiritual development.

[Jeff]

Merging with another or even a divine being isn't necessarily anything to do with non-duality, merging can be a sign of co-dependency and a breakdown in the development of healthy autonomy. In relationships it is quite common for people to try to merge with another, especially if they have a traumatic history or that of neglect. So they feel the others feelings and life in their own body to a very accurate degree, which may appear like a form of unity and can feel reassuring and pleasant at first, but the long term loss is a loss in your own autonomous feelings and healthy emotional development. In psychological terms it can be viewed as an attachment disorder based upon lack or separation anxiety, so you seek to fill it with someone else.

 

Merging may increase skills like empathy and even psychic ability and give temporary relief to suffering, so many classify it as spiritual, but by abandoning your own centre you are actually avoiding genuine intimacy with a substitute. What they call awakening or non-duality isn't about merging into something else, it is about the breaking down of the illusion of the separate sense of I which wants to merge in the first place.

 

In my own energetic training those who have a history of merging and feel little boundaries with others may have a weakened etheric body and may even have holes in it, so strengthening that would be a good healthy step. I don't know if the kind of merging which people get up to here is the good type or not but I thought it was worth noting that not all merging is necessarily spiritual or a sign of strong spiritual development.

 

If you don't mind, what tradition (or source) are you basing your above views? Additionally, do you personally have such ability/experience?

[gatito]

Merging with another or even a divine being isn't necessarily anything to do with non-duality, merging can be a sign of co-dependency and a breakdown in the development of healthy autonomy. In relationships it is quite common for people to try to merge with another, especially if they have a traumatic history or that of neglect. So they feel the others feelings and life in their own body to a very accurate degree, which may appear like a form of unity and can feel reassuring and pleasant at first, but the long term loss is a loss in your own autonomous feelings and healthy emotional development. In psychological terms it can be viewed as an attachment disorder based upon lack or separation anxiety, so you seek to fill it with someone else.

 

Merging may increase skills like empathy and even psychic ability and give temporary relief to suffering, so many classify it as spiritual, but by abandoning your own centre you are actually avoiding genuine intimacy with a substitute. What they call awakening or non-duality isn't about merging into something else, it is about the breaking down of the illusion of the separate sense of I which wants to merge in the first place.

 

In my own energetic training those who have a history of merging and feel little boundaries with others may have a weakened etheric body and may even have holes in it, so strengthening that would be a good healthy step. I don't know if the kind of merging which people get up to here is the good type or not but I thought it was worth noting that not all merging is necessarily spiritual or a sign of strong spiritual development.

 

Correct.

[Jetsun]

If you don't mind, what tradition (or source) are you basing your above views? Additionally, do you personally have such ability/experience?

 

Merging with others is described in a large proportion of the literature on developmental psychology. As small children we are all merged with our parents to some degree which is how we pick up a lot of their neurotic stuff. Pick up any book on co-dependency and co-dependent relationships and they will discuss this.

 

Do I have the ability to merge with others? sure

[Jeff]

Merging with others is described in a large proportion of the literature on developmental psychology. As small children we are all merged with our parents to some degree which is how we pick up a lot of their neurotic stuff. Pick up any book on co-dependency and co-dependent relationships and they will discuss this.

 

Do I have the ability to merge with others? sure

 

From your description above, it sounds like you and Tom are talking about completely different things. Also, since you did not seem to respond to the tradtion/source question, I assume that there is no lineage or tradition to support your position?

[gatito]

From your description above, it sounds like you and Tom are talking about completely different things. Also, since you did not seem to respond to the tradtion/source question, I assume that there is no lineage or tradition to support your position?

 

Now there's another great example of the pot calling the kettle black...

[Nikolai1]

All of the most profound spiritual experiences are pre-figured by everyday counterparts.  Merging is definitely one of them. All this means is that we need the discerment to tell the one from the other.

[Jonesboy]

Please show me a reference in physiology where it references merging?

 

Then show me how it is even close to vajrayana deity practice.

[gatito]

Please show me a reference in physiology where it references merging?

 

Then show me how it is even close to vajrayana deity practice.

 

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.^[1]