Beyond the spiritual heart

[Jonesboy]

Hi CT,

 

Thank you very much for the information about those practices. I have never looked into them so that was very informative.

 

I must have said something wrong. I was not trying to compare any practice that I do to any particular Dzogchen practice.

 

I was more giving respect to the Dzogchen view on things.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Jonesboy

[3bob]

all this stuff is fringe benefits at best anyway, why the obsession about it?

[dawei]

Is this light body from a specific tradition or something you have stumbled upon? 

 

Do you see the light body as anything to do with "awakening" in the way that people on Batgap and people like Ramana describe it? 

 

I'm going to comment from my perspective.

 

I don't really like the phrase 'light body'.  Mainly because the focus on 'body' is very local and misses the real focus of Light. One can googling enough to see that Divine Light is often used; so "Light" is short-hand in my book.  One could likewise just say Divine but that tends to carry certain connotations which gets off the point.  Maybe other might call it Divine Feminine.

 

So what one can see (or so I hope I am pointing out) is that this is like recognzing Light Beings that possess Light.  They exhibit light; they are light itself.   I can't say if they are as Light-complete as say the ultimate Divine Light is the true original raw Light, but it gives me a way of seeing that there are levels of Light.   So being Light is a Light level.  As Astral is a level but I know that people talk of an astral body which immediately shows why that is different (ie: body).   I don't talk in terms of 'body' as that gets us stuck on the wrong level, mentally at least.  We need to free ourselves from anything which binds us or creates a boundary; including "tradition".

 

This guy's website says:

http://centeroftheheart.com/event/divine-light-transmission

 

Divine Light Transmission is the unique ability to tap into the loving energy of the Divine and transmit that energy directly into the participants in the room. This ability comes from years of study and practice with the Holy Siddhas, Saints and Spiritual Masters and is a beautiful healing experience that ignites our True Self to Awaken to the presence of God within the Sacred Heart. 

 

So this seems a fairly common description I see online about Divine Light Transmission and is close enough to point out a few differences I would say:

1. Tap into... I'd rather say 'share'... We are light itself, so we share that portion of it which have opened to. 

2. Participants in the room...  there is no room per se (but he is doing a workshop).  There is something which some might call infinite consciousness but this is just the Divine Light itself spread out to another level/layer... each level/layer may lose some original Light but gains in manifest awareness and interaction for spiritual and human beings.  

3. Years of study...  We are all already Light.... we may not be open or aware of it to the degree we can exhibit as such.  This is likely the strength and weakness of a "tradition".  A tradition needs to develop steps to follow because it can't find any other more direct way.   There are direct ways but without knowing them, a "tradition" is the path for most.

4. Healing experience... there are levels of healing.... and so this should not be just taken to mean only the 'body'.  The body is our immediate level of awareness.

 

So Divine Light doesn't demand any one tradition and that one must follow steps to follow per that tradition...  While traditions can lead there in a very long haul, the most direct way is simple awareness and openness.  There is a sense of letting go of stuff (surrender in some traditions) to get attachments and boundaries to be the 'power' in your life.

 

There is some sort of aspect whereby one who is Light level can share with another the Light level.  This takes on many ideas but as most admit, everything is transmission; it is going on all the time.. even when we chat here, light is shared... so why don't we feel or sense it?   Or, what does it take to feel or sense it? 

 

 

This was an interesting article:

http://transmissiononline.org/issue/awareness/article/light-and-archetypes-in-every-tradition

[Jetsun]

So Divine Light doesn't demand any one tradition and that one must follow steps to follow per that tradition...  While traditions can lead there in a very long haul, the most direct way is simple awareness and openness.  There is a sense of letting go of stuff (surrender in some traditions) to get attachments and boundaries to be the 'power' in your life.

 

There is some sort of aspect whereby one who is Light level can share with another the Light level.  This takes on many ideas but as most admit, everything is transmission; it is going on all the time.. even when we chat here, light is shared... so why don't we feel or sense it?   Or, what does it take to feel or sense it? 

 

 

This was an interesting article:

http://transmissiononline.org/issue/awareness/article/light-and-archetypes-in-every-tradition

 

I just wonder if all the people who are talking about light are really talking about the same thing on the same level. On the fundamental level I always assumed: light = awareness

 

But then I have worked with different qualities of "light" myself, for example I have been to see Mother Meera who works with "Paramatman light". She explains in one of her books how she would go astral travelling through the higher realms and managed to make contact with a form of light which humanity hadn't contacted before and her role now is to bring it down to the conscious level. Personally I have felt its effect and it is different from other light energy work I have experienced and don't know of anyone else who works with this quality of light.

 

The closest thing I have found to which people here describe as light work is a form of healing discovered by a husband and wife in the Mikkyo Shugendo Buddhist tradition which they call "Radiance Healing":

 

"Pujitha has said the universe is permeated with a radiant white light that is the highest vibration of energy in existence. This healing energy is all around us, but most of us have forgotten how to "tune in" on our own."...

 

...This energy pours divine light to your soul and gradually dissolves accumulated negative qualities in you."

http://www.radiancehealing.net/

 

Although it doesn't have anything to do with uniting chakras and connecting with beings which suggests it may not be the same thing.  Perhaps there are different qualities and purities of this light which one can connect to, or purity of being which one can connect to, because if you do a google search many people claim to be working with pure divine light but the effect of this light seems to vary considerably between person to person. 

[dawei]

because if you do a google search many people claim to be working with pure divine light but the effect of this light seems to vary considerably between person to person. 

 

And we can find a great range on TDB too

 

I have loosely a grouping like:

1. Light transmission

2. Mind transmission

3. Astral abilities

4. Magic / Ritual

5. Psychic abilities

6. Seeing and sensing (aka 3rd eye)

 

And to your point, it varies from person to person within any group... but the overlap which appears is also astonishing.  Some in one group can do the same as another on some small level, etc. Some in one group do something another cannot.

 

I find it fascinating and have reached out to folks in the various groups.  There is something in common at certain levels and I hope the differences don't cause a schism in discussion and acceptance of the differences. 

 

Your post is one of the closest to explaining my very limited experience with Light... still different but I can appreciate the difference. 

[dawei]

On the fundamental level I always assumed: light = awareness

 

As [Divine] Light permeates all, it will be found at all levels...  at every level, there is awareness of that level.

 

So what you write makes a certain amount of sense.

 

I try to capitalize Light to suggest the Light Level idea; that of Divine Light Transmission.  I tend to use lower 'light' to mean that which is in all things and can be found everywhere.  Animals know this instinctively. 

[Bindi]

 

 

I try to capitalize Light to suggest the Light Level idea; that of Divine Light Transmission.  I tend to use lower 'light' to mean that which is in all things and can be found everywhere.  Animals know this instinctively. 

 

 

 

 

For myself, I reject the idea of any sort of light, or vibration, or presence, being deliberately transmitted to me in any way by any person, no matter what the level.

 

dawei, you say "we are already light", I see it differently. I think we are all born with everything we need already within, and that this needs to be developed, from within, but I don't see this innate material as 'light', but something more substantial.

 

The closer concept for me might be what is the nature of a 'soul'.

 

I understand that at one level we are all energy/light, but I see the creation of matter as a positive development, that I don't see the need to transcend, except maybe to try to express it in its most pure form, which as far as I can see is the 'Golden embryo'.

 

As you know, it's hard to try to express what one thinks, but I find it clarifying and worth trying to do. Sometimes I understand more from trying to put things in words.

 

Maybe I really am a dualist, believing that matter and human energies can somehow be an expression of the divine.

[3bob]

the most substantial thing is a weaving made of light, so to speak 

[Bindi]

the most substantial thing is a weaving made of light, so to speak 

Barclay powers in his essay The Buddha in Your Body discusses the concept of an actual physiological transmutation, and this echoes my sense of the body level involvement I see unfolding in my path. I’ll quote a bit of his article in an effort to try and make my expectation of my spiritual path clearer.

 

The goal is to physiologically unite the microcosm of the human body and the macrocosm of the multiverse.

 

By doing these types of body-centered energy practices the adepts are able to create both spiritual and physical change in their bodies.

 

What we're talking about here is literally rearranging the energetic structure of the mind and the body into a single whole, a primordial state of perfection. This occurs when the two inner subtle bodies unite within the physical body, the union of “mother and child lights.”

 

Part of me thinks hell, we’ve got all of eternity to experience being energy or light, and we have these few moments to experience physicality. In this sense I am embracing physicality, and trying to see what the greatest physical expression possible might be as a fully embodied human being, connected to the divine.

 

Though I do understand that at bottom we can be no more than weavings made of light, nonetheless seeking that truth just isn't where I'm being led.

[3bob]

in regards to the quote:  if a particular microcosm and the macrocosm did not have at least a minimal connective and working effect then such a particular microcosm would not be.  I'd say that the deepest identity uses both light and the physical to the fullest measure... (as alluded to in the quote) thus nothing including the physical is going to be missed or degraded because of that deepest identity.

Edited December 9, 2015 by 3bob

[Bindi]

I think the meaning is, open to some degree. 

 

But is it possible to then unify these seven partially opened chakras, and create a light body as Tom explicitly states he has done? Some partial sort of light body?

 

Maybe Tom needs to clarify what he meant, 7 fully or partially opened chakras.

 

 

A third eye vision is just that.  It is not a vision (or the kind of visions) related to Light level issues which I think Tom is focusing on.

 

I think this is really a fundamental question. Is there really any level of being available to us while we are in embodied form that is not visible to authentic subtle sight? Subtle sight which sees all levels of energy body and all energies flowing through all levels. And is 'transmission Light' really such  a high level as to be beyond any chance of subtle perception?

 

The only way to be sure would be to have someone who has authentic subtle sight or a genuinely opened and activated 3rd eye to experience Light transmission, and go from there. Saying it's not perceivable to people who don't have much subtle sight anyway is not really evidence that it is not perceivable to subtle sight per se.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Bindi

[Jonesboy]

Many times I have shown that ones depth and clarity can effect what one perceives.

 

The first thing that will occur is sight and we see tons of that. I would encourage everyone to look at the spirituality forums. You will see people who are light workers and they have wings (size matters with wings). You will find people who are unicorns. You will find a lot of things and playgrounds that people get lost in because of sight.

 

In everyday life we all know a group of people can all see the same thing happen but each will describe it in different ways. They will see it differently. The courts are very familiar with this.

 

The spiritual path to me is one of letting go. Letting go of attachments. Sight is an attachment.

 

I am not the only one to have experienced this. As one progresses sight becomes less and less. Knowing and feeling becomes more and more. As you progress and become more and more one with things so to is the knowing.

 

If I am one with the tree I am not seeing the tree because I am the tree. Knowing is the true goal, not seeing. If you are seeing it is separation and you are not that.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Jonesboy

[3bob]

I think I get your drift Jonesboy but he same could be said of knowing in general, as in knower and known.

[Jonesboy]

Hi 3Bob,

 

When you merge into that which is. Which one are you then?

[3bob]

Hello also and ok,  btw-  you didn't say merge you said know, although I got your drift

Edited December 9, 2015 by 3bob

[allinone]

When you observe,you pick one sense-consciousness only and you will see it is nothing. When you do meditation there is "no tree", because senses are empty. This is like sitting in a room watching out of the window, seeing that trees are moving but no sound of wind.

 

There is no point degrading back to do some practices because you know that when you sit down to observe there is nothing, senses are empty.

 

What is the missing ingredient to solve this issue to move on pass this point of emptiness?

[Bindi]

Many times I have shown that ones depth and clarity can effect what one perceives.

 

The first thing that will occur is sight and we see tons of that. I would encourage everyone to look at the spirituality forums. You will see people who are light workers and they have wings (size matters with wings). You will find people who are unicorns. You will find a lot of things and playgrounds that people get lost in because of sight.

 

All this proves is that you haven't experienced authentic sight. You are describing visions, illusions, fantasies. Do I really have to explain that this is not the level of authentic subtle sight.

 

 

In everyday life we all know a group of people can all see the same thing happen but each will describe it in different ways. They will see it differently. The courts are very familiar with this.

 

The spiritual path to me is one of letting go. Letting go of attachments. Sight is an attachment.

 

In your terms yes, because you are describing fantasies. I think everyone here would agree in principle that you have to let go of fantasy.

 

 

I am not the only one to have experienced this. As one progresses sight becomes less and less. Knowing and feeling becomes more and more. As you progress and become more and more one with things so to is the knowing.

 

If I am one with the tree I am not seeing the tree because I am the tree. Knowing is the true goal, not seeing. If you are seeing it is separation and you are not that.

I would still like to know, are your 7 chakras open as you initially stated, or just open to some degree?

[Jonesboy]

Hi Bindi,

 

That is 3rd eye sight that I am talking about. It is not fantasy or illusion. It is what people are seeing with there sight. Do you consider Aura's or chakras an illusion? If they were to see wings and then see an entity the next moment were they both illusions?

 

It is all self arising remember.

 

The reason no tradition talks about the astral is because it encourages separation. Lucid dreaming teaches you that your reality is self arising. With in dreams you can change your reality to be whatever you want. You can fly around on bbq wings if you wish.

 

As with the people who see wings on their backs. Ones sight is influenced by ones depth and clarity. They will tell you it is as real as the shoes on your feet and damn you for trying to tell them stuff you have no idea about.

 

Light workers have wings. Some have two, some have four and size does matter. It is what they see because it is self arising and influenced by there depth and clarity. I know of no other way of getting this point across.

 

 

All of my chakras are open. Being partial or fully opened doesn't really matter. The clearing of the chakras are never really done. There is always more depth one can achieve.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Jonesboy

[Bindi]

Hi Bindi,

 

That is 3rd eye sight that I am talking about. It is not fantasy or illusion. It is what people are seeing with there sight. Do you consider Aura's or chakras an illusion? If they were to see wings and then see an entity the next moment were they both illusions?

 

3rd eye sight covers all that and more Bindi.

 

 

All of my chakras are open. Being partial or fully opened doesn't really matter. The clearing of the chakras are never really done. There is always more depth one can achieve.

First you talk about wings where size matters, and unicorns, and getting lost in playgrounds, now you are talking about chakras and auras. Two rather different issues don't you think?

 

Can you see auras and chakras? The subtle energy bodies and channels? Can you see on the subtle level what is physically wrong with someone? And seeing all of this holds you back somehow?

[Jonesboy]

First you talk about wings where size matters, and unicorns, and getting lost in playgrounds, now you are talking about chakras and auras. Two rather different issues don't you think?

 

Can you see auras and chakras? The subtle energy bodies and channels? Can you see on the subtle level what is physically wrong with someone? And seeing all of this holds you back somehow?

Unicorns and playgrounds and auras are all the same thing. You are using the same method to see all of it.

 

Nope, I don't see auras or chakras or what is inside of a person.

 

I have told you that already.

 

It holds you back in the way that you think you need it. That you desire it like you desire ecstatic energy or whatever you may want.

 

As you progress you will notice how what you see will change over time as you progress. The fact that it has changed shows how your sight is influenced and unreliable.

 

At your current depth it will seem completely accurate which is the danger.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Jonesboy

[Bindi]

Unicorns and playgrounds and auras are all the same thing. You are using the same method to see all of it.

 

Nope, I don't see auras or chakras or what is inside of a person.

 

I have told you that already.

 

 

 

 But just a few posts ago you said

 

 

 

 

I never said I don't have visions. I said I don't depend on sight.

 

For instance.. I can try to see how many chakras you have open.. but knowing which is beyond seeing is better and more reliable.

 

 

I thought you meant you could see chakras. I now understand you meant you could try and see them, not that you could. But you do have visions, are they the illusory type visions?

 

Not having any experience with seeing auras, subtle bodies, energy channels, or inside the physical body, how exactly can you be so sure that this seeing is the same as visions of unicorns? You're not exactly an expert by your own admission. 

 

 

 

 

[Jonesboy]

I was saying that I learned that what I saw for chakras was inaccurate compared to knowing.

 

I said I use knowing and I am not saying I am an expert on that either.

 

One way of looking at this is about surrender to the Father.

 

With complete surrender and trust in the father one does not need sight to have faith. One does not need sight to put God first.

 

Remember Bindi. I am working at sweeping away the dust that keeps me separate from that which is. We could say the Father if that makes you happy. I am not trying to build upon things like a mountain toreach him. Instead I am trying to clear away the things that keep me separated from him.

 

 

I have said I don't see those things and that I don't play in the astral. That means that I am more heart based than sight based is all. I do see things, I just don't rely on it for my knowledge.

[3bob]

well hell there is the lower, middle and high astral while the subject is hot... and there are demons and angels are all over the place, aka relative realities

Edited December 9, 2015 by 3bob

[Jeff]

all this stuff is fringe benefits at best anyway, why the obsession about it?

 

As 3bob has stated, I don't see why there is all the obsession with seeing/knowing things about people like chakras. But, if it is import to you Bindi, I can do it. What do you want to know about your chakra development (or inner channels)?

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

As 3bob has stated, I don't see why there is all the obsession with seeing/knowing things about people like chakras. But, if it is import to you Bindi, I can do it. What do you want to know about your chakra development (or inner channels)?

Jeff, there is a difference between imaginative fantasy and true abilities.