What is the nature of doubt?

[4bsolute]

I googled and instantaneously came to mind: "Another thought" - Solved.


- empty and complete once again -

[Nikolai1]

But you need to doubt the first thought before you can recognise the second thought as doubt.

[4bsolute]

But you need to doubt the first thought before you can recognise the second thought as doubt.

 

You know what a doubt is.

 

If you want I could give you the analytical idea: A thought that wants to go against what you have previously expressed, coming with a distinctive feeling.

 

But what would that help? You already knew that.

 

You dont need to reflect upon a reflection to know it's a reflection. It just is a reflection.

[Miffymog]

2 years ago I did some work on the koan "What is this?". The idea is, of course, to generate great doubt which when bursts, leads to (great) insight. I actually managed, for the first time in my life, to access the koan and work with it intensely for 3 months. Being unemployed helped as my mind was not occupied with the daily stresses of life. The result? It led me back to my Daoist studies and I've haven't looked back since.

 

They key with generating doubt is that it helps bring up answers that you would not normally come up with.

[Nikolai1]

I googled and instantaneously came to mind: "Another thought" - Solved.

 

 

- empty and complete once again -

What I meant was: the kind of person who can come to such a stunning and radical conclusion is the kind of person who has had to spend a lot of time doubting.

 

Doubting, at first, clears the decks.  Then we see that even the doubt is just more thought.

[Marblehead]

Doubting is good.  Question everything.

[RigdzinTrinley]

I would say there is unhealthy doubt and healthy doubt

 

The healthy doubt like "what is this" or "is this really happening?" Etc. is very important I think

[Perceiver]

Doubting is good. Question everything.

If you should question everything, then you can also question whether to question everything.

 

Perhaps some things are better left unquestioned. Perhaps there are some paradoxes and mysteries of life that we'll just never solve.

[Marblehead]

If you should question everything, then you can also question whether to question everything.

This is true.  But without questioning we would most likely just walk through life like a zombie.

 

Perhaps some things are better left unquestioned. Perhaps there are some paradoxes and mysteries of life that we'll just never solve.

I have said before that in many cases the question is more important than any answer we will ever get to our question.

 

Oh!, for sure.  There will be questions that will never get an answer. 

 

But we must ask:  Did we ask the right question?

 

Some questions cannot be answered just as some paradoxes cannot be rationalized and some mysteries can never be solved.

 

And while I agree that it is not an absolute truth that we should question I will suggest that it is an absolute truth that we should not believe everything everyone says.

[soaring crane]

If you should question everything, then you can also question whether to question everything.

 

Perhaps some things are better left unquestioned. Perhaps there are some paradoxes and mysteries of life that we'll just never solve.

Is doubt a method for solving problems or a method for eliminating them altogether? I'm thinking like, a puzzle with no solution is no longer a puzzle.

[Marblehead]

I'm thinking like, puzzle with no solution is no longer a puzzle.

But,

 

But,

 

But, don't we first need to establish that there is no solution before we can establish such an understanding?  How can this be done without questioning?

[Apech]

Dao-t.

[Miffymog]

Interesting stuff. I always used to see the purpose of a koan was to put yourself into a questioning state of mind. This brings about an awareness and interest in what is going on. I changed my mind towards this a couple of years ago when I came up with an answer to my koan and decided that the answer was more important than the questioning state of mind it produced.

 

But, right now, my current reflection is the state of mind it produces is more important than the answer. It all depends on what state you're in and what stage you are at, I guess.

[Stosh]

 

You know what a doubt is.

 

If you want I could give you the analytical idea: A thought that wants to go against what you have previously expressed, coming with a distinctive feeling.

 

But what would that help? You already knew that.

 

You dont need to reflect upon a reflection to know it's a reflection. It just is a reflection.

This is very good as a start, , but I'm wondering, do you think doubt can be differentiated from insecurity? There are things one does know and those one doesn't ,, and if one knows they don't know , are we still calling this doubt ?  

 

We may have expectations which we see are not the way things are shaping up,,, when does this become doubt? only when one is concerned about the negative ramifications of this growing body of evidence? or does one still doubt when they aren't concerned. 

[Marblehead]

If we don't know and it concerns our life then it is, or should be, a doubt to be questioned.

 

If we don't know and it doesn't concern our life then it doesn't matter - no doubt - no questioning.

 

If we know we should question periodically because, you know, things change.

[futuredaze]

Doubt can be good -- a way of questioning assumptions, judgements, and the ego.  It can lead to a re-shaping of one's belief system and approach to life.

 

Doubt can also be harmful -- if one doubts everything including their ability to discern what to doubt and what to not doubt.  It's easy to get trapped if we stay in the mind... which is why it is good to return to the heart-intuitive center instead of the mind-analytical center.  There is simple joy and beauty and insight that happens when we still the mind and experience things in a different way.

 

Sometimes it is good to doubt doubt itself, when we get stuck in it.  When doubt controls us we are lost without a guide and question everything, including our own being.  When we use doubt as a tool, we can find faith in our clarity and create a certain foundation for experiencing everything.  Things will still be a mystery, but our relationship to that mystery, at least, will be something not to doubt.

[centertime]

Doubt can be good to cut through illusion.and to get to the truth if used well.

[Astral Monk]

To know doubt is to know the opposite of doubt, which we usually call 'certainty'.

 

Being certain is not itself a thought, but a corresponding feeling attached to a conclusion or assertion. The degree of vivacity or intensity of the feeling attached to the assertion is its degree of certainty.

 

Doubt, therefore, is an assertion with a very weak feeling of attachment. Something certain is associated in our mind with a high truth value. Something doubted has a low truth value or might even be associated with a complete suspension of a truth valuation (in logic this means holding or asserting A & -A simultaneously).

 

Doubt as a feeling is a reflection of a distance created by the symbolic actions of the conceptual mind. The further away we get from the concrete, the more layers of 'meaning', the greater number of iterations away from immediate sensation, the greater the doubt-space.

 

Thinking about it now, doubt and certainty as feelings are one and the same--just an intensity of feeling attached to a belief. One can be certain of a doubt. There is never any 'real' certainty because no thing can be 'known'--there are only degrees of belief.

 

However, I certainly doubt this post.

 

:0

[Marblehead]

However, I certainly doubt this post.

 

:0

Yeah, I too would question it but I said "Thank You" anyhow.

[dawei]

Doubt sits in nothingness... as does certainty...

 

Their duality simply awaits to arise.

 

Each is simply a reaction, an impulse, a check-and-balance.

 

when they manifest, you can simply know you are experiencing the manifest world.

 

When either/both stop arising within you... then it becomes much more interesting

[Kubba]

belief that one is separated entity.

[Marblehead]

 

When either/both stop arising within you... then it becomes much more interesting

Does that mean that one has attained the state where they don't give a shit?

[Marblehead]

belief that one is separated entity.

Oh, believe me, you and I are separate people.  We don't even live close to each other.

[Kubba]

Oh, believe me, you and I are separate people.  We don't even live close to each other.

 

Sure we are, but you know what I mean anyway

[Marblehead]

Sure we are, but you know what I mean anyway

Hehehe.  Of course I know what you meant.  But I have to be me, don't I?