Do we live in the matrix?

[voidisyinyang]

 

whatever ... your quote  about Christ consciousness 

 

 

Trinity Symbol: The Tree of Life starts with a Triad

From this primordial triangle proceed all of the other figures, shapes, forms, all other numbers, the magic of manifestation.

 

doesnt mention christ.  It talks about 'a son of the father'  which actually does not manifest until Tiphareth, half way down and central to the ToL ... its a vertical extension down the middle pillar ... the same way as 'the daughter' is at the bottom and last sphere of 'material creation' - malkuth . 

 

If you are going to blame the sources of what you cribbed and pasted together to make a blog and accept no responsibility for their content  or accuracy .....  well  ......    

 

and if you call this a dynasty :   " This Freemasonic gematria left-brain phonetic ritual sacrifice science was first used in the

Babylonian Zoroastrian, Egyptian, Vedic and Hellenistic Solar Dynasty technology... "

 

I think you better look up the meaning of 'dynasty'   .... unless you claim it is some ancient world encompassing family . The original split that caused the Zoroastrian / Vedic cultural separation is enough to see they had radically differing viewpoints. 

 

what "original split" are you referring to? such a "split" was debunked by Frawley https://books.google.com/books?id=98iUFS6lvWwC&pg=PT270&lpg=PT270&dq=original+split+between+zoroastrianism+and+vedic&source=bl&ots=_xcNlZsHG7&sig=Mbshnt05OtAA-FrjVLiaTCo9wyk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw_s3k7eHJAhXLFh4KHcSCCZUQ6AEIJTAB#v=onepage&q=original%20split%20between%20zoroastrianism%20and%20vedic&f=false

 

And hence my "solar dynasty" term -

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi6q4ib7-HJAhWKmR4KHTe9CW4QFgg0MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ece.lsu.edu%2Fkak%2Fzoro.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEiXsxHoGS2-OCXr8lVyhJ8RvvkIw&sig2=NDcbWQaf5JROnN2T0CK6yA

 

pdf link - Vedic Zoroastrian

 

solar dynasty just means that the solar-based agriculture united this whole region. The ancient solar dynasty of the puranas is a good example.

 

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/connections/Vedic-Iran.php

 

More Zoroastrian-Vedic parallels here

 

See also Norman Cohn

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=WRiKFom_1QIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=norman+cohn&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjatJbK9OHJAhVMmR4KHbMBCT8Q6AEIQjAE#v=onepage&q=norman%20cohn&f=false

 

googlebook

Edited December 17, 2015 by conspirachi

[voidisyinyang]

A diagram ( which I am not allowed to copy and post 'on this community' ) of the Supernal triad of the Tree of Life, removed from the rest of the Tree with the caption under it " The Cosmic Christ' 

 

 

 

whatever ... your quote  about Christ consciousness 

 

 

Trinity Symbol: The Tree of Life starts with a Triad

From this primordial triangle proceed all of the other figures, shapes, forms, all other numbers, the magic of manifestation.

 

doesnt mention christ.  It talks about 'a son of the father'  which actually does not manifest until Tiphareth, half way down and central to the ToL ... its a vertical extension down the middle pillar ... the same way as 'the daughter' is at the bottom and last sphere of 'material creation' - malkuth . 

 

If you are going to blame the sources of what you cribbed and pasted together to make a blog and accept no responsibility for their content  or accuracy .....  well  ......    

 

 

I'm not "blaming" them - I'm just saying if you want to understand the diagram go to the source - it's a neo-gnostic diagram.

 

 

Christ is a Universal Cosmic force that exists as part of the trifecta of Father, Son, and Holy Breath or Holy Spirit. Also called Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva; Osiris, Horus and Isis etc. God the Father unfolds into Christ the Son and we see this on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life as Kether unfolding into Chokmah.

 

The context of the image is next to George Lucas' secret meaning of Star Wars as also a neo-Gnostic message.

 

but thanks for pointing out the traditional meaning of the Tree of Life.

 

I added a neo-gnostic caption to the image to prevent future hissy-fits.

 

Also I added a new "divide and average" solar dynasties map.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

Edited December 17, 2015 by conspirachi

[Nungali]

I have written elsewhere here on this trinity concept.  There is an originating unity that manifests it, which you acknowledge but also a resultant 4th principle, that is 'born from within' , ( I recently put up a diagram here for this ) and a 'resultant'  that is like a 'pendant'  that 'comes out from' the primal triangle ( the 'carrier' of the 'multitude of things' ).  This is why so much of nature is based on the 3:4 principle  ;  fire and water are in polarity  

 

 +  ----------------  -    the mediator is air , to form the stable triangle

 

       Air 

 

Fire        Water

 

or Sulphur, Salt and Mercury of alchemy,  or Mars Venus Mercury of the personal astrological planets, or R B Y in primary colours .  The mechanism of sight and how we see colours is a perfect example.  The 4 natural colours are  R B Y G .  Green is not a primary ... like  'Earth' is not a primary element, it is generated by the other three.  This is reflected in physics with the 4 forces, the first 3 are primaries and can be unified by theory, but gravity ( the 'earth' principle) has not yet been (nor will be )  as it is a resultant ...... unless they do  prove a 'graviton'   ( then I will eat my hat ) . 

 

There is an extensive list of them somewhere here;  vision mechanism,  gunas, elements, astrology, kabbalah, etc, all unified by the same internal principle, but it seems lost in the machine, the original article has turned into programming language - Michael Sternback was trying to decipher it for me.  It is also coded in the structure of the human hand ( duality, a basic 3 modified by 4  and using a system of base 12  ) . 

 

But I see the above Kabbalah as faulty - but whatever, this isnt a debate on western Christian Kabbalah .  Also a dynasty is a term used for a ruling family , 

 

 

1. A succession of rulers from the same family or line.

2. A family or group that maintains power for several generations: a political dynasty controlling the state.

 

The original split I am referring to is in prehistory and is only inferred in later developments and tracked in the early Avestas. It is also partially attested to in the Vedas, one can observe the gradual degradation of the 'elder Gods' - Asuras, in Zoroaster's prohibitions (against animal cruelty, environmental degradation, the horse sacrifice, taking drugs as ritual and a religious practice, etc. )  the forces of organised and just ( for that time) by the warlord speed-freaks (soma drinkers)  such as Indra. Also by latter and even modern day comparisons  between remnant Zoroastrians in and around Iran and Hindus in India, regarding both people's 4 fold division of society.  

 

I also have a few detailed posts around the site on that too.

 

Thanks for the above links , I will look into them . 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Nungali

[Nungali]

what "original split" are you referring to? such a "split" was debunked by Frawley https://books.google.com/books?id=98iUFS6lvWwC&pg=PT270&lpg=PT270&dq=original+split+between+zoroastrianism+and+vedic&source=bl&ots=_xcNlZsHG7&sig=Mbshnt05OtAA-FrjVLiaTCo9wyk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw_s3k7eHJAhXLFh4KHcSCCZUQ6AEIJTAB#v=onepage&q=original%20split%20between%20zoroastrianism%20and%20vedic&f=false

 

I went to that link and it showed a short passage from a book that , to me, doesnt indicate anything like a split between two peoples being debunked ?  

 

 

And hence my "solar dynasty" term -

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi6q4ib7-HJAhWKmR4KHTe9CW4QFgg0MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ece.lsu.edu%2Fkak%2Fzoro.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEiXsxHoGS2-OCXr8lVyhJ8RvvkIw&sig2=NDcbWQaf5JROnN2T0CK6yA

 

This link shows a solar connection, but I am not disputing that, I was questioning the use of the term dynasty which indicates it was one family and its descendants.  

 

Also this link isnt a good source for understanding the dynamics that evolved with and apart from each other in pre-Zoroastrian religions ,  it talks about the religion of the devas being current in Iran before Zoroaster.  This didnt happen in Iran at all, it happened  further to the east, in a collection of  ancient 'nations' detailed in the Vendidad. It was after the societal split, when the 'Daevo'  permanently crossed over the Hindi Kush and stayed in India, after this Zoroaster reformed the original religion of   Mazdayasni Paoiryo-Tkaesha  with the developing  Ahura - Tkaesha to create (reform)  Mazdayasno Zarathushtrish Vidaevo Ahura-Tkaesho,  - Zarathushtrian Mazda-Worship opposed to the daeva through the laws of the Lord (Ahura) ..... that is, specifically against the 'Deva' worshipers (still giving us such 'badly connotated' words such as deviate, devil (div)  evil ... etc   .   and then it went to Iran, much later ... The branch that went to India first honoured the Masdayasni (asuras - older gods)  then of course, the Vedics began the same process of denigrating the older, Asura / Mazdayasni  ( enemy's) Gods ;

 

 

Durga-devi killing Mahish-asura in the form of a buffalo

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/religion.htm

 

 

pdf link - Vedic Zoroastrian

 

solar dynasty just means that the solar-based agriculture united this whole region. The ancient solar dynasty of the puranas is a good example.

 

In a way, but it is more the whole system, it seems that after agriculture was developed the idea of the 'vara' was the significant step, it outlined a new way of living, also the laws and regulations of the society (and the good environment and climate it was in ) were advanced and liberal for the time ... causing people to flock into 'Aryana Vaeja'  ( the ' first nation' of the Vendidad ) , it was the moving away from this, into the violent war lord, drug fuelled  culture that caused the 'original split' ;

 

 

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/connections/Vedic-Iran.php

 

More Zoroastrian-Vedic parallels here

 

I understand that there are parallels , I am not disputing that at all, however this reference look like it is out of OOI theory - Indian Nationalist Part, etc .   OOI  is not currenty accepted.  It isnt that Zoroastrianism has used Hindu religion, it is that they both came from similar sources. 

 

 

See also Norman Cohn

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=WRiKFom_1QIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=norman+cohn&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjatJbK9OHJAhVMmR4KHbMBCT8Q6AEIQjAE#v=onepage&q=norman%20cohn&f=false

 

googlebook

 

 

This last one seems to be whole book ... why give a whole book as a reference ... to what ?   vedic zoroastrian parallels  ?  I already  know there are parallels. 

 

I am not sure what your post and all these references are about ?   I said there was an original split between the two , and you seem to be disputing what I said by offering examples of their similarities ....   well, of course, things have similarities ... when they come from the same or similar sources ... so I really dont get your point .

 

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean ?  

Edited December 17, 2015 by Nungali

[voidisyinyang]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean ?  

 

Yeah I have conflated things because my point is that the Matrix goes back to the "symbolic revolution" that Jacques Cauvin, the archaeologist termed - see the quotes I posted about the oldest religious megaliths in Western Asia.

 

So I was just reading today the latest "ancient DNA" analysis which really clarifies a lot of things.

 

First of all wheat farming did go into India and Europe in ancient times - probably around 7,000 BCE - and brought with it white skin from Vitamin D malnutrition in wheat farming.

 

The DNA analysis has actually proven that the caste system lines up with the later Indo-European "migration" which actually did originate out of the steepe horse culture - and moved into India starting around 4000 BCE.

 

So it spread all into southern india - but the deal is that population of Indo-European migrants into India did not have any DNA connection to Near Eastern Indo-Europeans since 12,500 years ago - again around the time that wheat farming began developing.

 

So then what happened is that the IndoEuropeans that migrated into south asia actually lived nearby that area but never interbred with the Dravidians - and so it wasn't until thousands of years later that they actually started interbreeding once the migration into south asia proper occurred.

 

So then what happened is that northern India experienced later waves of Indo-European migration and so their percentage is higher but also that the caste system was not recorded until a later time in the Rig Veda - it is from the later books and so the caste system did not develop until it was in India after the interbreeding happened for hundreds of years. So that is why there is a mixture of IndoEuropeans in all the castes now but that is also why there are more IndoEuropeans in the "higher" castes due to the later migrations.

 

As for the connection or similarities to the Zoroastrians and my use of the term "solar dynasties" - or solar dynasty - again my meaning is that this "symbolic revolution" relied on a patriarchal attempt to "contain infinity" using geometry and rectilinear anthropocentric artwork. That is detailed by the sources I quoted already here - in more detail in my book. So this philosophy became more pronounced so that the "squaring of the circle" with a "divide and average" Solar mass ritual sacrifice geometry was detailed by math professor Abraham Seidenberg - back to 3000 BCE. It is not the same as the "Greek Miracle" using irrational number - but it is an earlier version of an attempt. This "solar god" focus was based on the wheat monoculture farming - using bull plows - as I pointed out God means bull from the IndoEuropean word Gott - and that is something I discovered on my own - the etymology of the word God is not even given by karen armstrong in her academic book "History of God." - and Brahman also means bull.

 

As I quoted in this thread - at first the Bull was worshiped because it was not domesticated and so honored in its wild strength as a sign of Nature in control - but then with the domestication and the focus of the economy on male plowing using bulls then patriarchy increased. And so by around 1500 BCE then patriarchy had pretty much been crystallized and with it this "divide and average" matrix mathematics whereby the Gods and goddesses are defined by harmonic music ratios. That became the secret source of disharmony for the Greek Miracle of Western math and the secret reason behind today's extreme ecological crisis and social injustice and mass mind control as the Matrix - what I exposed as the "music logarithmic spiral" in the Actual Matrix Plan.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=f_OAqmkNwq4C&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=norman+cohn+vedic+zoroastrian&source=bl&ots=XSaiKp3fDv&sig=qa4-j43qCVp6PjxfqkhhQBoTqNY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj56O2B-uPJAhURjIMKHWviADIQ6AEIRDAJ#v=onepage&q=norman%20cohn%20vedic%20zoroastrian&f=false

 

The differences you are making about Zoroastrian and Vedic are also recognized by Morris Berman citing Norman Cohn.

 

My original source was Norman Cohn - and so his point is that is the whole trajectory of that Western linear time origin - out of this origin of monocultural farming. Too bad the googlebook link does not give much material from his book.

 

But Morris Berman's book is focused on the Bushmen trance dance training - which is the same as the Taoist alchemy training and the older Dravidian-based "three in one unity" of the three gunas - all of those philosophies are based on the empirical fact that all human cultures use the 1-4-5 music intervals which are noncommutative.

 

You have mentioned your view on correspondence of colors and forces of physics, etc. I encourage you to read the research I've done as I include the latest - very recent developments in science - and yet again the message of the training is quite simple yet quite radical, based on our common modern human origins in Africa from out of the trance dance Bushmen culture.

 

Now you could argue - yes there is probably parallel evolution from Homo Erectus having migrated around the world 2 million years ago and so the latest research is showing indeed that Asians and Australian aborigines, etc. actually evolved out of homo erectus along with mixing with the modern humans out of the Bushmen of Africa.

 

The thing is that actually the latest research also shows that homonins were walking erect as their main gait 3 million years ago and while they were living in forests - where hearing is the dominant perception, not sight. For example some cultures living in forests do not have a good sense of depth. haha. So my blogbook goes into that in more detail - that the Mingmen point is curved for hominins walking upright whereas it is locked straight for other primates - and it is this curvature of the Mingmen point which is opened up by the ancient trance dance Tai Chi and full lotus training.

 

So the thing is that the Western esoteric analysis is still caught up in the Matrix - as I pointed out the gematria uses symmetric "one to one correspondence" which is the Matrix math from Hellenistic influence and this mind control is then projected back onto analyzing Egypt for example. Consider that it is spread widely in the New Age scene that Egypt used the Golden Ratio - but this is an irrational number from the Greek Miracle and so I expose in my book how that is a mind control lie of the New Age CIA-Freemasonic propaganda. It's very much taught in the New Age scene that the Golden Ratio  - the focus of the Freemasons - is to contain and improve Nature. Western math actually believes that it contains the whole Universe! haha. It's quite hilarious actually.

 

I had to spend years to "unlearn" a lot of Western math - and I detail that in the conspirachi blogbook. I would recommend that you focus on the 90% of human history from before 10,000 BCE - and how that spread around the world as the spiritual training of complementary opposites resonance. A lot of things are "projected" onto Taoism when they are not really from Taoism. Obviously we have to use modern Western science to "reverse engineer" the problems of modern civilization. I call this the "natural resonance revolution."

 

One of the connections that those pdfs point out - if you had linked to another pdf report by the same author on that Vedic-Zoroastrian analysis - he writes about how the Mitanni are IndoEuropean and what happened is that the Mitanni princess married into the Egyptian dynasty and that was the real reason for monotheism starting in Egypt around 1200 BCE - and so there you have a real dynasty connection between Indian and Egypt - and guess what - then probably Judaism also. haha. https://books.google.com/books?id=T9W6Op3aT_MC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=mitanni+india+egypt&source=bl&ots=QpIaT0PnXp&sig=t1RRJ9SBjSdjfxe9-AUQzWsw7P8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjq2dTkheTJAhXOqoMKHUOSAG4Q6AEIPDAF#v=onepage&q=mitanni%20india%20egypt&f=false

 

that book corroborates this research.

 

So I realize the use of the term "dynasty" is a broad-brush but that's the idea behind it - to be provocative by seeing this deeper connection from solar-god calendar focused wheat monoculture spreading out around that whole region, bringing with it ecological crisis and increasing patriarchal mind control, starting around 10,000 BCE and intensifying after it spread into Europe and India around 7,000 BCE.

 

Biologically we have not changed much regarding the spiritual training - not much since 100,000 years ago and it is the universal use of the 1-4-5 music intervals that is the secret of the alchemical training based on this ancient biological connection that goes back millions of years.

Edited December 17, 2015 by conspirachi

[Nungali]

Yes, I see what you are stating generally , but the last part of my responses are not against your idea generally ... it was in reference to you commenting about my concept of a split not occurring . Remember ?  ( @ your post # 126 ) 

 

There is good evidence though that an original version of the caste system predates Vedic Indians   ( but no historical evidence ... by the way, there is no historical evidence going back to 10,000 bc ;  " I would recommend that you focus on the 90% of human history from before 10,000 BCE "  ???.... I may seem picky, but it is the things I am pointing out  are things that academics will see and make them think your research is lacking and impact on your general theory ). 

 

Here is the ref for the split being as I described above (and the reason I say drug fueled speed freaks  ( remembering that Indra is also known as 'the 1000 testicled one' ... so add some testosterone to the amps ) ;

 

In the Rig Veda (4.42.1-6) * , when Varuna declares, "I, Varuna, am the king; first for me were appointed the dignities of asura, the  Lord. I let the dripping waters rise up, and through rta I uphold the sky." Indra replies, "Men who ride swiftly, having good horses, call on me when surrounded in battle. I, the bountiful Indra, provoke strife. I whirl up the dust, my strength is overwhelming... . No godlike power can check me - I who am unassailable. When draughts of Soma, when songs have made me frenzied, then both the unbounded regions are filled with fear." The hymns addressed to Varuna are more ethical and devout in tone than the others, and form the most noble or high-minded portion of the Rig Veda. 

 

and the caste system is shown to be developed by King Jamshid :

 

King Jamshid developed the concept of specialized professions. He instituted the four main professional guilds of priests and learned (athravan), nobles and warriors (rathestaran), farmers (vasteryosan), and artisans (hutokhshan), with members of each profession working in freedom and dignity. Farmers had their own land free from dispute. King Jamshid also instituted the tradition of the wearing the sacred thread or belt as an mark that the wearer had been initiated into the guilds (see (Sad-dar - 'Hundred Doors' chapter 10, and chapter 39.18-19, Dadestan-i Denig - 'Religious Decisions'). 

The Hindu Vedas list four similar professions called varnas (from var, to enclose, cf. Av. vara meaning enclosure): the priests and learned (brahman), nobles and warriors (khshtriya), merchants and farmers (vaishyas), labourers and artisans (sudra). Each varna has its own dharma or system and rules (also called laws) which included an initiation ceremony called the upanayana (meaning bringing within). 

The Vedic name for the systems of professions, varnas, and the Avestan name for the Jamshedi settlements, varas - both from the root vara meaning enclosure is significant and bears further examination. 

The Hindu initiation ceremony like the Zoroastrian initiation ceremony is also called a thread ceremony. Hinduism calls the initiate a dvijas meaning twice born signifying that the initiate is "born again" into spiritual life. Zoroastrianism uses the term navjote meaning new life. The Hindu initiation is conducted during a person's teen or early adult years. The Zoroastrian age for initiation was the age or reason, deemed by tradition to be fifteen years of age. 

Hinduism developed the professional guilds into a caste system, a development that violated principles that Zarathushtra would promote. The initiation ceremony in Hinduism is now limited to men of the first three castes, while the initiation ceremony in Zoroastrianism is available to all women and men. In Zoroastrianism, the initiation ceremony is an initiation into the faith and a coming-of-age ceremony for all Zoroastrians - rather than an initiation into a guild or caste.

 

 again;   http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/prehistory.htm

 

which also shows the development of the vara settlement - 'urban planning'   a key development alongside the development of agriculture. 

 

I am seeing the significant departure, not as development of agriculture, but development of a concept of power the ruling elite wanted to maintain;  see the quote from the Rig Veda above  *   and consider;

 

" If the qualities of the gods reflect the values of the worshippers, then for asura worshippers building and maintaining a peaceful society based on law and order was a priority. For the deva worshippers, the priority would have been the exercise of power through might and fear. The asuras are ethical where the devas are materialistic. While in the Rig Veda both deities and their respective allies are worshipped, Indra and deva worship clearly take precedence. The largest number of Rig Vedic hymns are dedicated to Indra - nearly 250 out of a total of 1028. Agni, an asura, is invoked in about 200 hymns, a greater number than the number of hymns dedicated to Varuna.  "

Edited December 18, 2015 by Nungali

[3bob]

Yes, nothing is fully "disconnected" -- it's a matter of degrees.  Take your metaphor of the umbilical cord, e.g., into real-life context.  In the Western medical tradition it is cut immediately, as soon as the baby is born.  In the tribal cultures still adhering to the traditional way (vanishingly few of them), it is never cut.  It gradually dries up -- takes about a week -- and falls off, or is broken off by hand like a dry twig when it's already completed its purpose.  The implications of the difference in these practices are vast. 

 

The tribes that don't cut the cord seem to "not cut the cord" to all of their ancestry -- perhaps all the way to tao, who knows.  An individual's developmental history thus embodies (not as an idea in the head, but as a knowledge in the very cells of the body, nerves, muscles, blood) the timing for the connection to be strong, to be weak, to be just a memory -- but they are never cut off abruptly from the memory of where they come from.  So they remember who they are a lot better.  The term used by an African tribe (e.g.) that practices this non-forceful physical disconnection that does not sever the spiritual-somatosensory connection is M'boga, "ancestors, the unbroken connection of 'me the effect' to 'them the cause.' "  So the first reaction of a member of this tribe pondering the Western ways is to ask, "Why are you so disrespectful to your M'boga?.."

 

(I know why.  Because our M'boga screwed up something horrible.  Also because this-here culture is shaped by Hollywood, not by traditional wisdom, and Hollywood hasn't offered a single movie in many decades where a mother was present and good.  She is either evil, ridiculous, clueless, inadequate, heartless, dumb, meddling, you name it -- or if she's good and loving, she isn't there, she's dead, replaced by the evil stepmother, like in all those "for children" brainwashes known as fairy tales.  Started long before Hollywood though -- the grim Grimm brothers et al...  Our idea of the mother figure -- our culture's  blueprint for how to relate to her and how to be her.)

 

So, taoists who are into philosophy (I'm not one of them) could answer your question better, or at least more philosophically, abstractly, than I can.  My take is, it doesn't matter until it is practiced.  Does not matter what we "think" about "we're all one" or "eternal infinite unchanging" or tao or any of that.  Timing is everything.  A baby cut away and carried away from the mother does not know any of that.  She only knows what she is living right now -- that she is hurt, alone, and unloved.  The world takes it from there.

 

Philosophy that comes later can't mend it.  The only way to mend it is to embody tao to your own child -- but no one can who doesn't have the blueprint of how because of lack of personal experience, direct exposure, in her (and his) developmental history.

 

Taoism tries though.  Tries to provide such blueprint.  I don't know if it can succeed.  I know we're done for if nothing succeeds.  Even if we reincarnate into some future perfection.  Timing is everything.  Future perfection is useless even if it's real.  Everything that is done, is done once and forever, it's a "time capsule" (to use the term from a book I'm reading) that is not connected to a future "time capsule" -- yes they're both within tao, but they don't help each other live their respective "nows" anymore than two random distant points of the circle do.  Yes they are part of the same infinite circle.  No, it doesn't matter unless they act it, do it, live it.  Weird, huh?     

 

I'm not sure of all your meanings above but I do see that during instinctive "fight or flight" mode a persons thinking is not in gear or in the same gear as it is during moments of reflection... thus and at many other times I consider thought and written words to have importance and able to make a difference, (as you obviously know)  for instance most of us come to ask at some point in our lives "why have my loved ones come to suffering, why does human kind come to suffering , why do we bring this upon ourselves and will it ever end?   There are also moments in everyone's life with feelings and thoughts that have a "pull" (as you put it) towards Source via the Sacred Life force.  (so even if the ways of the world tend to bury such - a Sage "is kind to the kind and He is also kind to the unkind, for virtue is kind" per T.T.C. 49,  which is and granted something that the rat race does not understand yet most of us rats (a.k.a. egotism) get tired of racing at some point or another and start to turn away, and if exposure to the empowered words or writings of a decent person or a Sage come into play at such a turn in a persons life then they can make a difference to bring about progress or acts of dharma -if you will.

Edited December 18, 2015 by 3bob

[voidisyinyang]

by the way, there is no historical evidence going back to 10,000 bc ;  " I would recommend that you focus on the 90% of human history from before 10,000 BCE "  ???.... I may seem picky, but it is the things I am pointing out  are things that academics will see and make them think your research is lacking and impact on your general theory ).

 

 

Archaeological evidence is historical evidence. "ancient DNA" is historical evidence.

 

The Bushmen culture is still very much alive - it is - as I've said - from before 125,000 years ago, as the DNA science has proven. It spread around the world.

 

So yes it's better than historical evidence. Is it ignored by science as a whole - it's focus on spiritual training which is the same as qigong and yoga training? Yes but they are actually ALIVE. haha.

 

I have just word searched "alchemy of rainbow heart music" pdf

 

I just clicked on the link and now I will word search Bushmen.

 

 

As I describe in more

detail in this book: We can find the same model of complementary opposites in India through

the oldest philosophy there, Samkhya, of the three gunas – from the African roots of Dravidian

culture.52 I trace this all the way back to the original human culture – the Khoisan Bushmen of

 

52 An excellent expose on the cover-up of Samkhya in India is Phulgenda Sinha, The Gita As It Was:

Rediscovering the Original Bhagavadgita (Open Court Publishing, 1987).

 

 

English, for

instance has around 46 sounds, some languages in South America have fewer than

15, while the San bushmen of South Africa use a staggering 200. Dr Atkinson

found that the number of distinct sounds in a language tends to increase the closer

it is to sub-Saharan Africa. He argues that these differences reflect the patterns of

migration of our ancestors when they left Africa 70,000 years ago.131

 

131David Derbyshire, “Is This How Eve Spoke? Every human language evolved from 'single prehistoric African

'mother tongue',” MailOnline.com, April 15, 2011.

 

 

There are things about the antiquity of the Bushmen’s culture that we

didn't know. A musicologist found very important music which was used at a

woman's first menarche called ‘elan music’ (honoring the fat-rich antelope). This

‘elan music’ was also present in other language groups of other Bushmen

language groups and also the noun-less speakers who are not exactly Bushmen

but they're related. This means that way back before these groups diverged,

somebody invented or composed (this) music and then they took it with them.140

 

140 Interview with Elizabeth Marshall Thomas, Paula Gordon Show (Peterborough, New Hampshire, July

19, 2008).

 

 

Toward what I believed to be the end of the evening, Xaxe, a great hunter, healer,

and shaman, laid hands on me....I felt the energy, his energy, surge through my

body. He had his hands on me for about twenty-five or thirty seconds, but it felt

like he had only touched me for a split second. Time stood still. I literally had a

short out of body experience. I could see him touching me from just above my

body, almost like I was floating six feet off the ground, watching myself. All of a

sudden I was back in my body observing an image of him thumbing through the book that contained all the pictures and moments in my life. I saw images of my

childhood I hadn't remembered in years, pictures of my mother and me walking

on a beach and shelling, very strong images. At the time, both during his touch

and immediately afterward, I described it as him flipping through the pages of my

life....Later the next morning, I spoke with Xaxe about the trance dance. He told

me he wanted access to me in a way that was not possible through a

translator....Xaxe's curiosity was such a caring, loving gesture....When he

detached from me it felt like someone was unplugging a lamp from a wall socket.

As he let go of me and continued to dance around the fire, I spontaneously burst

into uncontrollable tears....I had been stripped to my emotional core, completely

stunned by what I had witnessed so up close and personal.151

 

151 Andrew Zimmern, The Bizarre Truth: how I walked out the door mouth first – and came back shaking my head

(Random House, 2009), 234-5.

 

 

I discussed the manner in which certain apes and gibbons perform coordinated

“duets” and/or “choruses,” which, as I speculated, could represent a “missing

link” between the hooted vocalizations of primates, which do not employ discrete

pitches, and the yodeled vocalizations so commonly found among Pygmies and

Bushmen, which do. While duetting and chorusing are, indeed, very close to “Shouted Hocket,” as widely performed among many indigenous peoples

worldwide, neither hooting nor shouting, no matter how highly coordinated, can,

strictly speaking, be regarded as music.166

 

166 Dr. Victor Grauer, “Chapter Seventeen: In Olden Times,” Sounding the Depths (2011).

 

In Dr. Keeney's book The Bushman Way of Tracking God (2010)

and in his interviews based on the book, he explains the transformation training in detail.

 

612 Lorna Marshall narration, Ju/'hoan film footage shot by John Marshall, 1951, Documentary Educational

Resources, 1995.

 

When the male

healers tried to “hoard their N/um” to build up their power then the Khoisan feared these

shamans, as reported in the Bushmen book Healing Makes Our Hearts Happy. This “hoarding

of the N/um” was considered a big no-no so the females would throw water on the males to bring

them out of spirit travel as the N/um was supposed to be freely shared. These master healers,

based on the wrong philosophy of “hoarding their N/um,” or containing infinity through

geometry, then increased their technical powers as alchemy and ritual sacrifice.

 

Dr. Bradford Keeney who focuses on Bushmen trance healing has also emphasized this

trance frequency as the rapid beating of the feet and the shaking of the legs – starting at 7 beats

per second, just as happens when a person sits with their leg propped up on their toes – it starts to

naturally pulsate. This energy needs to be sublimated up into the brain as the N/om or kundalini

 

O.K. now I'll get you my relevant blog posts on the Bushmen so you can have more "historical" evidence.

 

http://conspirachi.blogspot.com/2015/09/the-eland-bull-menstruation-trance.html

 

http://conspirachi.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-bonobos-and-bushmen-domestication.html

 

http://conspirachi.blogspot.com/2015/07/dna-smoking-gun-advaita-nondualism.html

 

That's the Vedic DNA evidence I referred to.

 

http://conspirachi.blogspot.com/2015/02/revisiting-african-shamanic.html

 

http://conspirachi.blogspot.com/2014/11/the-moon-puberty-trance-dance-as-first.html

 

http://conspirachi.blogspot.com/2014/11/revisiting-tantra-in-light-of-sandawe.html

 

http://conspirachi.blogspot.com/2014/07/a-great-pdf-summary-of-focus-of-90-of.html

 

O.K. I realize I can get this info faster than you can.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=1it3mQ5QUhUC&pg=PA240&lpg=PA240&dq=%22symbolic+revolution%22+cauvin&source=bl&ots=f4EWwGhrC7&sig=XadK7Bg01l_u0ALvgFchKU75-NE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm2OnUzeTJAhWNPB4KHUV7Dh4Q6AEIHjAB#v=onepage&q=%22symbolic%20revolution%22%20cauvin&f=false

 

on the "symbolic revolution" around 10,000 BCE

[Nungali]

[voidisyinyang]

 

Shades of the Rainbow Serpent? A KhoeSan Animal between

Myth and Landscape in Southern Africa—Ethnographic

Contextualisations of Rock Art Representations

 

 

Thus, the ‘‘revolutionary’’ nature of

the European Upper Paleolithic is most

probably due to discontinuity in the

archaeological record rather than to the sort

of rapid cultural, cognitive, and/or biological

transformation that has been argued by

proponents of the ‘‘human revolution.’’

 

That was a big part of the racism against the Bushmen - focusing on Europe as the "human revolution."

 

 

Who were the earliest modern Europeans? It

is becoming increasingly difficult to deny

that they were Africans.

http://dreamflesh.com/essays/devilgoddess/

 

In the Australian Aboriginal myths of the Rainbow Snake, and its associations with menstruation, water, the moon and women, there is widespread acknowledgement that this ‘cosmic serpent’ (often androgynous) originally gave women power. Knight’s key argument is that this power is the power to periodically unite in saying ‘no’ to sex, to initiate sexual-political change (the Snake symbolizes the united body of ‘flowing’ women). At the same time, it is the powers of shamanism and magic, which Knight sees as evolving as a result of the first ‘proto-cultural’ groups of humans in Africa dispersing inland, away from their coastal origins. The females, robbed of the tide as one of their main cyclic guides, evolved moon-scheduled ritual activities—and thus symbolic culture—to synchronize social, psychic and bodily rhythms.

 

matrix means womb

[Nungali]

One problem with various "debunkings" is that when you follow the money and find out who has paid the debunkers to debunk, the plot thickens.   In Va Ri Ab Ly.

 

I took your advise and some time looking into this ... as I dont like to take such comments at face value.  And this  one is a classic example used by a lot of people to justify modern woo woo ; 

 

 

Troy as a reality rather than myth was debunked a hundred times by the special interest hired debunkers -- until someone (Heinrich Schliemann) who was wealthy enough to retire at 36 invested his own money into finding out whether what he "believed in" -- to wit, historic reality behind Homer's "myth" -- was possible to excavate.  Turned out it was.

 

See, that sounds good on the surface ... its something that gets repeated all over the place, but that doesnt make it accurate ... like the '100th Monkey' meme that people keep quoting ..... the research was fudged ... there was not even 1oo monkeys present in those populations to make a 100th monkey effect !  

 

But to move on to Schliemann  and  Troy ... and the unsubstantiated claim : 

 

 

 

Schliemann was from different time and place, and with different attitudes and motivations. On the one hand he indeed discovered Mycenae and introduced the world to the "prehistory" (read, Mycenaean history) of Greece, and he is credited with that. On the other hand he had little understanding of what he was digging and the period to which it dated. His famous mask of Agamemnon, for example, was in a grave context dating to around 400 years before the historical setting of Troy. And on another hand , he did not discover the site of Troy but merely tore up the site where others believed it to have been. The modern name for the site is Hisarlik, and while it's been archaeologically demonstrated to be a very ancient site with numerous inhabitation levels, to this day no one can definitively point to it and say, "This is Troy." Just as no one can point to the Iliad and state that it was an actual historical event.

 

The bottom line is, Schliemann did not prove anything substantial about Troy, and in fact did a world of damage to the site while falsifying archaeological evidence and sneaking artifacts out of Turkey. Schliemann was a story teller, not an archaeologist. He is primarily credited legitimately with the excavations at Mycenae and what was discovered there, although to be honest he had the good sense at that site to employ a well-trained Greek archaeologist to run operations there.

 

We can agree though that Schliemann was not a fringie. There were in fact fringe-types in his time, such as "pyramid measurers" and proponents of the "Mother Culture," but Schliemann doesn't belong to this category. A better description for him would be antiquarian, as were many wealthy European men of his time.

 

Don't get me wrong, plenty of non-professionals in certain fields have made wonderful contributions to our understanding of ancient history. Bob Brier's doctoral degree is in philosophy but he is one of the world-leading researchers in Egyptian paleopathology. He applied himself to historical and scientific studies to achieve this, and has been so recognized. 

 

When Schliemann got to NW Turkey he found an archaeologist Frank Calvert sitting on the site that would be later dug as Troy*. FC didn't have the money to purchase and dig the site Schliemann did.

 

 

*until recently no one was completely sure if that site IS Troy, while the Romans thought it was Troy there is still some fuzziness about it being that city of Homer and whether in fact the Trojan war happened in the way Homer wrote about it

 

At the time Schliemann began excavating in Turkey, the site commonly believed to be Troy was at Pınarbaşı, a hilltop at the south end of the Trojan Plain.[{3} Schliemann performed soundings at Pınarbaşı, but was disappointed by his findings.[3] Schliemann did not know where to look for Troy and was about to give up his exploration altogether. It was not until Calvert suggested excavating the mound of Hissarlik that Schliemann made any moves to dig at the site. Calvert had already searched in the mound, but he never made it down to the Bronze Age layers; still, he was determined Troy was buried somewhere within the mound.

 

https://en.wikipedia...i/Frank_Calvert

 

The Roman's also knew (or thought they knew) where Troy was and there was a colony there until the 5th century - they even use to run 'tourist' groups because in their mythology the Roman founders were  Trojans - that information was available to FC and those who earlier made recommendations on where Troy might be (see Thomas Spratt known as 'Spratt's Map' Thomas Spratt known as 'Spratt's Map').

 

Here is a list of books that discuss what was known about Troy and what the Roman's knew about it.

 

[1] Lucan, De bello civili 9.966-99. Lucan records the anecdote that as Caesar walked through a patch of grass, one of the locals called out to him: 'They buried Hector there. Take care not to offend his ghost!'

 

[2] Thus Erskine (2001:248-50).

 

[3] Austin (1964:216).

 

[4] Virgil's literary patron was Augustus' close confidant Maecenas.

 

[5] Elder Pliny, Naturalis historia 5.124.

 

[6] Vermeule (1995:476, with note 100).

 

[7] See Vermeule (1995:477), Sage (2000:217-18).

 

References:

 

Austin, R.G. (1964) P. Vergili Maronis: Aeneidos Liber Secundus, Oxford: Clarendon Press.

 

Erskine, A. (2001) Troy Between Greece and Rome: Local Tradition and Imperial Power, Oxford: Oxford University Press.

 

Sage, M. (2000) 'Roman Visitors to Ilium in the Roman Imperial and Late Antique Period: the Symbolic Functions of a Landscape', in Studia Troica X:211-31.

 

Vermeule III, C.C. (1995) 'Neon Ilion and Ilium Novum: Kings, Soldiers, Citizens and Tourists at Classical Troy', in J.B. Carter and S.P. Morris (eds) The Ages of Homer: A Tribute to Emily Townsend Vermeule, Austin, Texas: University of Texas Press, pp. 467-80.

 

For further information on Ilium during the Byzantine period, see Vermeule (1995:477, with references in notes 115, 116).

 ;

He was also smart enough to read the Roman sources and also the Byzantines who had site habitation there until the 15th century, rebuilt after the earlier Roman site was destroyed.

 

In the 19th century Academia did consider Homer's story to be a fairy tale - because it is. It has in it discussions between gods, gods 'teleporting' about and interacting with humans. He records conversations he couldn't possibly know.

 

If thousands of years from how archaeologists found a copy of the book "Gone with the wind" - would they think it was a real story or a fairy tale? Atlanta existed, the USA and the Confederacy existed, there was a civil war but the story itself is false.

 

The Iliad is probably based on numerous Greek attacks on other cities with a large fantasy element added in for popular consumption. To this day we still are not absolutely sure that Troy IS Troy nor have we found the Greek camp that should exist - if the story is true.

 

The point being that Schliemann was NOT some author with a fringe idea.  He was a legitimate scholar with a good foundation.  It's not correct to drag him out when looking for ideas that may be considered fringe but were later proven true.  Scholars and scientists have wild, on-the-fringe ideas all the time (lightbulbs, cathode ray tubes, electrical circuits, batteries, television, etc. ) But that's quite different from someone reading a few very out of date books and coming up with a concept :

 Schleimann was in no way a fringe author such as Hancock, then https://en.wikipedia...rich_Schliemann and others popular with people today. 

 

* Schleimann was fluent in 14 languages, including Greek.  

* Schleimann completed a PhD thesis and was awarded a PhD.  

* Schliemann joined archaeological digs and spent many years digging and analyzing material.  

* he could cite his source material (the Iliad) in the original language.  

* Dr. Schliemann had academic training in how to evaluate source material.  

* he continued working on digs and writing research papers after finding  his 'Troy'.  

* Dr. Schliemann valued academic training and studies and relied on historians and other scholars.  

 

It's a false equivalency to think that Schliemann and fringe writers  are similar.

 

The city we think might be Troy may not be and no evidence of the Trojan war as outlined by Homer has been found.

 

Further excavation of the Troy site by others indicated that the level he named the Troy of the Iliad was inaccurate, although they retain the names given by Schliemann. In an article for The Classical World, D. F. Easton writes that Schliemann "was not very good at separating fact from interpretation." [18] He goes on to claim that "Even in 1872 Frank Calvert could see from the pottery that Troy II had to be hundreds of years too early to be the Troy of the Trojan War, a point finally proved by the discovery of Mycenaean pottery in Troy VI in 1890." [18] "King Priam's Treasure" was found in the Troy II level, that of the Early Bronze Age, long before Priam's city of Troy VI or Troy VIIa in the prosperous and elaborate Mycenaean Age. Moreover, the finds were unique. The elaborate gold artifacts do not appear to belong to the Early Bronze Age.

 

Few places got this lucky, few interpretations could be this straightforward, having the actual ruins and the famous text coming together to attest to their more-than-belief foundation.  Most are stories untold and many are sites of manipulation untold --

 

and to jeer and smirk smugly when orthodoxy's for-profit dispensations are being questioned is the ticket of admittance to the club I don't belong to.  Not because I couldn't gain admission with the same ease as the smug ones if I cared to, but because I'm easily disgusted.

 

 

No ... there is a lot more behind my criticisms than appears on the surface , that is because I dont go to the extent I did here with every idea that pops up.   And it is too tedious to do so.  

 

The evidence so far indicates a general  ..... Atlantisn't .    Although I dont expect any popularity here for stating such facts ... especially when the counter is some supposed conspiracy that involves numerous fields of science , record and evidence , empirical based research and the like, somehow being part of a conspiracy because it doesnt confirm to , or  does not support people's own , near religious, beliefs about things. 

 

{ Well ... what do you expect when ; " jeer and smirk smugly when orthodoxy's for-profit dispensations are being questioned is the ticket of admittance to the club I don't belong to.  Not because I couldn't gain admission with the same ease as the smug ones if I cared to, but because I'm easily disgusted."  ? } 

Edited December 21, 2015 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

Good grief... the orthodoxy accepted then debunked yet another theory.  QED.  How is it not their (and their acolytes') standard modus operandi?  This is precisely the point I keep making.  We have no history the science.  We have a collection of orthodox narratives (comprising a body of beliefs, manipulations and agendas, not facts) that get debunked from time to time and replaced by a new set of orthodoxies.

 

And all of it is arbitrary and based on interpretations, falsifications, and confabulations.  And yet "everybody knows" is unimpeachable.  Even though it is based on phoney baloney -- e.g. about the carbon dating...  Did you know you can't carbon date any historic building or monument?..  You can only carbon date organic matter littering the site, cultural layers -- should you find any.  The problem with these is, they are often thoroughly intermixed both in the soil (the older the site, the more thoroughly) and in the minds of the interpreting parties...

 

...anyway, this is just in passing -- you are kindly referred to my "Not doing any homework to prove anything to anybody" tread in WeiWuWei.  

[Nungali]

Ha har!   No, I am not going to go off to a different thread and read something else in relation to all the facts I posted above that never addressed them in the first place .  I'm not that easily diverted     

 

I pretty much know your stance on things and which way you will tac , the info above is for anyone seriously interested in the claim that fringies and their unproven and often falling apart theories  cannot be backed up by the old 'What about the discovery of Troy ?' ploy .

 

PS of course I know that about carbon dating . 

 

Interesting how some 'researchers' are accepted (like in the GT vid you posted) but others are not ....  I think it has to do with the direction their ideas take things ... not any qualified facts as such .

 

You know, I used to believe in this stuff too until only a couple of years back ... its just that I did extensive examination of BOTH sides of the stories.    

 

I hope I am not too challenging for a forum  such as this ... where I considered some level of enlightenment and detangling from our proclivities might be a partial theme ?

[Taomeow]

I know it's a disappointment for you but I don't look at your evidence because you never look at mine...  e.g.,  you refused to watch a video I posted in this thread on the basis of it being "too long," remember?..   What goes around comes around...  your posts with your evidence are too long, and harder on the eyes than watching a movie, so -- an eye for an eye saved some eyestrain.

 

As for your amusing belief that you know what I, me, believe in ("these things," right?  "Fringe" all of them, correct?), what can I say...  Man...  you have no idea. 

 

I did buy a book about Atlantis not so long ago, but didn't get around to reading it yet -- I need to though, I need Atlantis for my sci-fi novel, and Mu too.  Mu I am quite familiar with, having read James Churchward's classic.  But Atlantis is a bit of a blank spot, so I intend to educate myself.  No, I can't just take your word for Atlantisn't, what would I tell my protagonist who had such a hard time figuring out where he was to begin with?..  That he's hallucinated the whole world he's been thrown into?  He will just slam the door and walk out on me.  I need to give him some solid ground under his GI boots.   

 

OK, now the spirit moves me to share some of the things I really believe in with you that are pretty far out.  Just a few, to give you a taste.

 

I believe the moon is made of cheese.

 

I believe the fusion of Chromosome 2 speaks very loudly about our history.  I also believe no one wants to hear what it says.

 

I believe online forums are there to foster the spirit of camaraderie, for people to enjoy each other's virtual company.  Once too many stop using them in this manner and instead start resorting to chronic ongoing repetitive passive-aggressive assaults, perhaps for the purpose of propping up whatever is drooping in themselves by bending down someone else, it's time to move on.

[Nungali]

Oh ... dont take my word for it on Atlantis -  in what I said here ..... which was nothing really 

 

This is where the info on it is   http://thedaobums.com/topic/39928-atlantis/page-2

 

Thanks for the Moon info .... years back I considered paying a fortune for a tiny piece of Moon  ' rock '  ... just as well I didnt ! 

 

 

As far as  resorting to chronic ongoing repetitive passive-aggressive assaults goes ........   are you sure its just not a case of debate as opinions dont match  ... on this subject ?    I seem to remember  conversing with you on other subjects where there was no issue.  

 

Sorry if you got upset, I had not realised you would take debate and  contention about a concept so personally . 

[Taomeow]

No, not debate, the dismissive tone --  that is personal, and I don't "take it personally" in the sense that you succeeded in "hurting my feelings," I take it as a manifest sign of intended disrespect -- the name of the game is awareness.  I'm aware when I get undeserved condescention, doesn't mean I pull my hair out in despair when I do, but I see no reason to pretend (as the netiquette seems to have devolved to require) that I don't notice.  I notice, and have no problem pointing out that I don't like it.  Hope this helps.    

Edited December 21, 2015 by Taomeow

[Nungali]

and you got that from my post #137 that mostly just listed some data ?   Listing data against your viewpoint is intended disrespect and dismissive tone  now?   

 

Wow . 

[Taomeow]

No, from your gaslamping me in several theads.  AND in the last post above too. 

 

I think this is a bow-out for me.   (Look up the term and the tactic it refers to if it's too American to be readily recognized in Australia.)

[voidisyinyang]

Actually I just watched "Atlantis Found" on History Channel - it's a slam dunk case that it is Santorini.

 

They used high tech evidence to prove it - based on about 7 corroborating angles....

 

http://www.history.com/shows/atlantis-found/videos

 

So basically they proved there was a huge island as big as Manhattan in a "safe harbor."

 

The proved that Athens did have a hot spring where Plato said it was at Acropolis.

 

Proved that Egypt recorded the Atlantis myth from the time of the Santorini event.

 

Proved that Santorini did have wheat farming and fresh water plants.

 

It all fits together based on new evidence. Pretty impressive research.

 

But it's still basically just a Phoenician wheat farming culture - still definitely "within" the Matrix.

[Nungali]

No, from your gaslamping me in several theads.  AND in the last post above too. 

 

I think this is a bow-out for me.   (Look up the term and the tactic it refers to if it's too American to be readily recognized in Australia.)

 

No, you got me there and you are right, I did have to look it up.  I got lighting refs on the pages , I assume it is the same ? 

 

"Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of mental abuse in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity. "

 

 

The thing is , a lot of what I post is in response to what I think is  information that is twisted and spun, details omitted ,  false information, downright lies (as in the case of  some 'alternative viewpoints to the mainstream' web sites and videos - particularly in the case of photoshopping, sometimes done  quiet obviously ( to 'illustrate a point '  or a fantasy; and  all dressed up as being something valid.

 

What abou the generations of 'victims' out there trying to learn things off the internet , many are being fed , in some cases, obvious crud.   But looking deeply into what they are saying, following their references and in some cases exposing them as false is gaslighting  ... and mental abuse of a victim ?  

 

 

And at times, when I have presented a wall of evidence against some crazy idea  I am confronted with 'its a conspiracy'  , even that I am part of some cover up as I looked into things using some investigative followup

 

 I am not referring to you and posts, but sometimes I have noticed it in some of the information and sites and vids people put up to demonstrate their POV, beliefs or maybe a quierie . 

 

And yes, I can be an arse ,   especially in the case of finding out something is a fraud .  One of those 'Atlantis sites'  had the most ridiculous crap on it, it claimed there were artifacts there and they just needed money to go and prove it ( paypal donation button included.    

 

If people get offended at my uncouth Aussiness  and big mouth   < shrug >  I'll wear that  .... some dont mind that some do . 

 

There wasnt any stubbornness  or  'refusing to look' at the GT vid you posted , as I said, its too long to watch, I mean that literally , if I watch a vid , the  signal drops out and  the computer gets problems and I have to  restart to clear them.  

 

I do plan on watching it though , when I can, when I am in town and I can go to the library , thats why I asked about any other media related to it.   So it was a bit silly to say , you didnt watch mine so I didnt read yours. 

 

In any case , surely quotes , written text with citations and references and links included , and peoples names on the different [arts of the story being presented is easier to follow, source and link to ?   When I agreed to watch that Atlantis vid, I had to watch it, take notes, and then get that all down in a written form anyway to follow the references and sources to check things out.  

 

Unless people dont bother to do that and just watch things for entertainment purposes?  

[Nungali]

Actually I just watched "Atlantis Found" on History Channel - it's a slam dunk case that it is Santorini.

 

They used high tech evidence to prove it - based on about 7 corroborating angles....

 

http://www.history.com/shows/atlantis-found/videos

 

So basically they proved there was a huge island as big as Manhattan in a "safe harbor."

 

The proved that Athens did have a hot spring where Plato said it was at Acropolis.

 

Proved that Egypt recorded the Atlantis myth from the time of the Santorini event.

 

Proved that Santorini did have wheat farming and fresh water plants.

 

It all fits together based on new evidence. Pretty impressive research.

 

But it's still basically just a Phoenician wheat farming culture - still definitely "within" the Matrix.

 

 

Cool !  I will check it when I can .... thanks for listing some of the main features of it so I can get an idea of what it is about .

[Nungali]

But Jason Colovito doesn't seem to recommend it  

 

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-historys-atlantis-found-documentary

[Astral Monk]

All this argument about 'history' is a joke and a waste of time because none of it gets to the fundamental metaphysical root of the question--is phenomenal reality essentially just information?

 

Because if we say yes to this then all the 'facts' about 'history' and all comments about 'scientific methods' supoosedly revealing them are nothing more than literary critiques, dealing solely with the linear arrangement of a narrative and never the origin of the book from the pen of the author.

 

'Information' is non-spatial, non-temporal. Timespace is a projection of the event of 'reading' but not something that 'contains' information. Looking for a medium is just more page flipping through books. The idea of reality as information goes beyond any particular narrative of how phenomenal events unfold and manifest a 'world'.

 

And since information in this sense is beyond timespace, there is no burden of having a 'thick' ontology because data 'space' is not required because the concept of storage doesnt apply to the Possible. All possible narratives exist. Every type of unfolding phenomenal manifold is real. Reality is not burdened by this. There is no competion for being.

 

Besides, if you allow a purposeful controlled matrix governing our existences, there is no way out. Its 'Inception' again because it invariably leads to an infinite regress. The only 'out' is the absolute negation of all information--the complete stopping of all 'readings'. Whether the info comes direct from the infinite source or from Descartes' evil genius, the only way past it is to stop 'listening'. No amount of 'clues' in the matrix can lead you out. Its an endless whirlpool leading nowhere.

 

So arguing about history is pointless. Youve already accepted this particular narrative so youre trapped. Even worse, its just narratives nested in narratives that lead nowhere but back to page 1. Even within this narrative we cant possibly KNOW anything about distant timeplaces. Lol we cant be sure of events unfolding 7 days ago let alone 700 000 years ago. Its worse than reading 'The Return of the King' and intuiting the plotline of 'The Hobbit'. Or better yet, watching 'Return of the Jedi' in 1983 and intuiting perfectly or even remotely the plot to 'The Phantom Menace'.

 

History is another diversion enjoyed by people of abundant leisure--interesting and engaging but ultimately empty and irrelevant (to the BIG questions).

 

8)

Edited December 22, 2015 by Astral Monk

[Astral Monk]

History is another diversion enjoyed by people of abundant leisure--interesting and engaging but ultimately empty and irrelevant (to the BIG questions).

 

All the moreso because history, indeed all phenomenal events, is not some 'thing' out 'there' in the distance, but a part of the complete body of reality that exists right NOW.

 

We dont need to ask 'but what about the pyramids???' if we understand the phenomenal manifold as pure information because depending on the narrative being 'read' all that 'backstory' comes together as context for the current chapter. In other words we should not bother looking at causal timespace connections, but logical connections uniting First and Final causes.

 

A book has a first page and a last page that all come bound together as a single unit. You can open it to any page and start reading, but the narrative flows unimpeded from first to last with the paper and ink being relative delivery media blended them together.

 

You want an insight into history? Better grt a clear view of your face before you were born!

 

8)

[voidisyinyang]

But Jason Colovito doesn't seem to recommend it  

 

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/review-of-historys-atlantis-found-documentary

 

Jason Colavito  personally avoided my questions to him about qi energy and paranormal research.

 

He assumes it doesn't exist. He's not a real scientist with an open skeptical mind - he is a fanatic materialist who censors information about qi energy.