Apech Posted January 5, 2016 Every experience is known. Why is this difficult to understand ?But just knowing experience doesnt suffice because you are only knowing it as an object.But when we look at the root of this experience and the nature of this experience then we are getting closer in recognising that which is unconditioned.And we understand this unconditioned reality by recognision how this was always with us and no matter what we do we cannot produce it destroy it increase it or making more of it. Â Â fair enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Most treat rigpa as a thing with a specific location.  Most who?  The Bön and Buddhists explicitly define rigpa as empty, therefore no substance and no specific location. Edited January 5, 2016 by steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 5, 2016 Nope. "diffused in the whole body, but concentrated in the heart". Also: My Rigpa is not one with your Rigpa, otherwise one guy turning Buddha would enlighten everybody else. You should read books from Tenzin Namdak. Â Why would that be regarding Buddha and enlightening everybody else? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted January 5, 2016 I would imagine so! I think many people want cookbooks rather than topographic maps. Â Can you point me towards a collection of Norbu's teachings? Check out tsegyalgar 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted January 5, 2016 Nope. "diffused in the whole body, but concentrated in the heart". Also: My Rigpa is not one with your Rigpa, otherwise one guy turning Buddha would enlighten everybody else. You should read books from Tenzin Namdak. Â a teacher is more important than books if you are interested in practicing dzogchen. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted January 5, 2016 Check out tsegyalgar Thanks, steve! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 5, 2016 Don't ask me, ask Tenzin Namdak. It's part of his reasoning, not mine. The subject was that every being has a similar Natural State as base of his mind, but there is not "one unified Natural State field", that is everybody's Natural State. You have yours, I have mine, an insect has its and Buddha has his. Â Do you have a specific book that you would recommend of his that covers the topic? Â I have never understood the logic of the position as it is easily experimentally verified that there is crossover with relative "mind space" between people. Also, is not the yogacara/shentong position that there is effectively a universal mind (or buddhamind) space? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 5, 2016 http://www.amazon.com/Bonpo-Dzogchen-Teachings-Tenzin-Namdak/dp/9994672053/ Â If every being has an individual Natural State, that doesn't mean that additionally the universe has not a "unified Natural State field" as background base of its existence... Â But now you have stated that the "universe exists" or is somehow separate from "buddhamind", which doesn't sound very Buddhist to me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 5, 2016 I am more interested in BonPo sources... Â But seriously. If you experience the world, you in fact "look in your own face" as you just experience vision manifested in your Natural State. That doesn't mean, that the world, which caused your vision, doesn't in fact exist. Â Puzzled. Â Is that Bon teaching or your own idea? (the world causing your vision) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 5, 2016 Even your Thogal visions need secondary causes like sunlight, the clear empty sky or total darkness. Â Hmmm ... well since I don't know what Thogal visions are I'll leave it there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 5, 2016 Do you have a specific book that you would recommend of his that covers the topic? I have never understood the logic of the position as it is easily experimentally verified that there is crossover with relative "mind space" between people. Also, is not the yogacara/shentong position that there is effectively a universal mind (or buddhamind) space? Â Not Shentong - that school just says that Buddha-nature is 'empty of other'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) But now you have stated that the "universe exists" or is somehow separate from "buddhamind", which doesn't sound very Buddhist to me. Â Â There is way too much emphasis on so called Buddha mind as if it were a universal and superior construct! The Buddha was here on this planet and not in some distant star system. Why not interview an alien race to question what their teachers think. Â In my experiences, I never once think; "oh this is so wonderful, therefor it must be Buddha mind. Buddha has been treated as if he were a god and that I disagree with. Edited January 5, 2016 by ralis 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted January 5, 2016 A teacher wrote that book. So in your opinion, the statements written in this book are wrong, because the teacher wrote them down instead of telling them in person? No? Then you have to accept them as they are.   The big hook from the Tibetan hierarchy is one of special transmission which according to their legend and lore can't be obtained from a book. However, Norbu was of the opinion back in 1989 that one could not receive from a cassette tape. Times have changed and now he is on the internet and what one sees online is nothing more than a computer language in which the basis of is machine code; 10101010101 ad infinitum.  Almost everyone of those Lama's is still living in the Middle Ages. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 5, 2016 There is way too much emphasis on so called Buddha mind as if it were a universal and superior construct! The Buddha was here on this planet and not in some distant star system. Why not interview an alien race to question what their teachers think. Â In my experiences, I never once think; "oh this is so wonderful, therefor it must be Buddha mind. Buddha has been treated as if he were a god and that I disagree with. Â So are you then stating that the world "exists" and it is separate from Buddha? Or buddhamind? That one is sort of "in" a body that would be on our planet? Â Also, do you see that as a Buddhist perspective or your own? Â Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 5, 2016 You know the Allegory of the Cave? Or: The world reflects on the surface of a lake, you are staring at the reflections. Â Do you mean Plato's cave? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted January 5, 2016 Â Very true! The institutions riding the coattails of the myriad saviors here on this planet are making a fortune. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
