Learning Taoist Meditation with BK Frantzis

[Robin]

Some concerns and unanswered questions regarding learning Taoist Meditation with BK Frantzis

 

The context of the following points is of my having practiced Taoist Meditation as taught by Bruce Frantzis for about fifteen years, with annual attendance at his meditation-related teachings and a practice schedule of one to two hours a day. Prior to that I had studied with senior EA instructors for nearly a decade, so I’m talking from a position of some experience, rather than hearsay or just having read some books. I have recently decided to take a break from the practices Bruce has taught me, and am re-evaluating my relationship to him as a teacher. Obviously I have got a lot from the practice of Taoist meditation or I wouldn’t have stuck with it for so long. However, the focus of this post is on the less positive aspects of my experience.

 

·        Bruce learned much of what he teaches studying one-on-one with his main Teacher Liu Hung Chieh for several hours a day over several years. He says in his books that personal feedback from a genuine master is essential for making progress and avoiding delusion. However, he doesn’t offer this kind of personal feedback. Instead, in my experience, he is not very approachable - in fact he can come across as very unfriendly. He will answer questions (in a manner that often comes across as reluctant and condescending), but in my experience he doesn’t always listen carefully or understand exactly what is being asked. The idea of having a relaxed, nuanced conversation with him about my practice seems impossible. This is in spite of the fact that in order to have the opportunity to talk to him I might have spent a lot of money and travelled a long way.

·        For some reason, there appears to be NO ONE else outside of China (excepting a few of his senior instructors) who teaches the method of Inner Dissolving from the tradition he claims to be part of.  Perhaps when he started teaching, this was understandable what with the language barrier and general level of cultural exchange, but now, decades later, why are there no other representatives of the “Water Tradition” offering their teaching to westerners?

·        Whatever the reason for the last point, the situation is very unusual and prone to difficulties. After all, there is no realistic source of verification or alternative perspective or simply the opportunity to learn the same method from a teacher with a different personality.

·        Bruce is a student of Dzogchen master Wangdor Rimpoche, who has another student, Lama Lena, who offers much more support than Bruce. She told me that she only takes on as many students as she can maintain a personal connection with, and makes a point of always replying to emails written by students since she recognises how much effort and care has been put into writing them. Bruce has on a couple of occasions replied to messages from me on Facebook, for which I am grateful. However, one of these replies took over a year, and one message had no reply.

·        I understand that Bruce has many students and cannot be available to everyone. This seems fine for health practices, but when it comes to meditation, I find myself wondering if he is spreading himself too thin to make the path he teaches genuinely viable, in the absence of anyone else from his lineage available to offer guidance, feedback and support.

·        There sometimes seems to be a lack continuity or follow-up between mediation teachings. For example, one year in Oxford Bruce taught about how to dissolve the mind directly without going via the body, and another year he taught the use of sound to work with the first three energy bodies. Neither of these teaching had any follow-up as far as I know. There are also lots of audio and video resources available, which is great. However, without some guidance, it’s hard to know which of the many aspects and practices to work on at any given point. Bruce’s quote from Liu of “So, you’re a baby then, who needs to be told what to practice?” doesn’t quite sit right with me given the difference in learning contexts - ie intensive daily observation and input vs. annual workshops with many other students.

·        Maybe it’s a small deal, but why does Bruce feel the need to spend so much time talking about his achievements and just how amazing he is? For me it goes beyond instilling confidence in his credentials or the power of the practices and becomes somewhat grating.

·        The sense of always more - there is something about the way Bruce presents his teaching that I hear as implying that we as students are really complete beginners however long we might have been learning. Years ago a student of his who had left him said that it took meditation away from being a basic human activity everyone can do to something very elitist that you need special transmission in order to do properly. This a perspective shared by some Buddhist schools as well. It might well be the case, but there might also be an element of “the Emperor’s New Clothes” going on. It’s hard to say, and is a point of discernment.

·        Finally, in my recent research into alternative spiritual paths and teachers, I came across an article about Zen meditation in which the author wrote that to consider that someone is your teacher, you must see them in person a least once a year and they must KNOW YOUR NAME! Perhaps the crux of my whole experience here is that I predict a low probability that Bruce could remember my name unprompted, in spite of the time, effort and money I have put into learning from him. Of course one could argue that he has given me a great gift by sharing the teachings, and is in no way beholden to me, but regardless, there’s something about the totality as my experience which “doesn’t feel quite right.”

 

The reason I’m going into so much detail and thinking and writing about all this is that it is actually a very big deal to move on from a mediation teacher and practice that has been a huge part of my life over such a long time. I think ideally I would not make this change, but with things as they are and not knowing how to address them, it feels more true to myself to cut myself adrift and see what else comes my way re spiritual guidance. It’s hard to measure the benefits I’ve received through my loyalty to this path, although I expect they are immense. I’d like to feel more at peace and have some resolution with Bruce around my experience, but maybe for now I need to allow myself to feel a bit angry and disillusioned in order to help me make the transition to the next stage of my journey.

 

*****

 

I'm curious to read any constructive comments and/or feedback from what I've written. Has anyone here had similar experiences either with Bruce or any other teacher? 

 

I'm off to a weekend retreat on Mindfulness today. Should be interesting....

[Aeran]

I've actually recently severed contact with a school I was studying with (although for only 2 years, so nowhere near as long!) for many of the same reasons (although also many different ones). 

 

Your experiences mirror my own in many respects - it's hard being set adrift after having a very specific spiritual path laid out in front of you, it's hard re-evaluating your goals and spiritual future after having a very specific idea of where you're going and how you're getting there, and it's especially hard looking back on people you admired and realizing they weren't exactly what you thought they were, having to deal with that doubt and disappointment.

 

I'm not really sure I have any advice, but I wanted to say that I've been through a similar experience and so have many others, and that I'm sure you'll find something moving forward.

 

I try to look at it as having learned all I had to learn from those teachers, and so having to go through the subsequent learning process of that realization and bringing myself to act on it (and I did learn a lot - not only regarding spiritual practice and philosophy, but also about what it means to be on the spiritual path and the pitfalls which lie along it, and I imagine you feel the same). You could think of the process of recognizing that it wasn't right for you anymore and moving on as a kind of graduation.

 

So you're not alone

 

I've also found it very freeing, which is nice but also a little overwhelming. Nice because it's opened up a lot of doors I thought were closed to me, overwhelming because it's hard to make a decision about where to take my practice next. I decided to get back to basics for a bit and see where the universe leads, instead of focusing on grand, lifelong goals.

 

 

Of course one could argue that he has given me a great gift by sharing the teachings, and is in no way beholden to me, but regardless, there’s something about the totality as my experience which “doesn’t feel quite right.”

 

I would disagree strenuously with that first part. I think passing on teachings to a student creates a bond of responsibility, on many levels. I also think that someone who doesn't know their so-called 'students' personally, let alone keep track of progress, has no right to claim to be a teacher. The attitude you described in Lama Lena sounds far more appropriate.

 

As for the latter, I found that for me it was a battle of my gut telling me to leave and my head telling me to stay, and my gut ended up being very much in the right (surprisingly so, when certain details revealed that things I had suspicions about were not only true, but far worse than I had thought possible). I think when something "doesn't feel quite right," that's the subconscious acknowledging the things your conscious isn't ready to accept just yet.

 

 

I’d like to feel more at peace and have some resolution with Bruce around my experience,

 

I found the best way to come to terms with my disappointment in the teachers was to recognize that they were just human beings like everyone else, people who make mistakes, make bad decisions which they think are good ones, do the wrong thing when they think they are doing the right thing, suffer from ignorance and self-deception. To look at them as people and at their life situation and how they had come to be who they were, the good and the bad, and see their actions and as a result of that chain of events.

 

I also had pointed out to me quite wisely that they too were on the spiritual path and so had to suffer and make mistakes to grow and learn, and that by taking on the role of teachers those mistakes were correspondingly larger and so would be the eventual lesson they would have to learn. So by being a part of their school, realizing that there were major problems stemming from how it was being run and bringing myself to leave for my own good, I was also contributing in some small way to the growth process of the teachers and the other students, who would have to realize the same things from their own perspective, at some point in eventuality.

[GreytoWhite]

I found the best way to come to terms with my disappointment in the teachers was to recognize that they were just human beings like everyone else, people who make mistakes, make bad decisions which they think are good ones, do the wrong thing when they think they are doing the right thing, suffer from ignorance and self-deception. To look at them as people and at their life situation and how they had come to be who they were, the good and the bad, and see their actions and as a result of that chain of events.

 

I also had pointed out to me quite wisely that they too were on the spiritual path and so had to suffer and make mistakes to grow and learn, and that by taking on the role of teachers those mistakes were correspondingly larger and so would be the eventual lesson they would have to learn. So by being a part of their school, realizing that there were major problems stemming from how it was being run and bringing myself to leave for my own good, I was also contributing in some small way to the growth process of the teachers and the other students, who would have to realize the same things from their own perspective, at some point in eventuality.

 

 

This is gold right here, diamonds, rubies, and sapphires too. My first meditation teacher was also my professional mentor and I looked up to him quite a bit. After a few years his life crashed around him due to a number of factors and I came to a similar realization - regardless of how far along a spiritual path one may be, even teachers are people with flaws.

[vonkrankenhaus]

People often have a vision of what their ideal teacher would be.

 

Every teacher will fall short of this.

 

If you are serious about your vision.

 

As this happens, it is making your vision real.

 

You will become that teacher you are looking for.

 

You saw it.

 

And if not you, then who else would be seeing it?

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Mudfoot]

Some teachers you go to on seminars, hopefully gaining something of value. 

Others, you form a relationship with. 

 

I have done a handful of seminars under Bruce Frantzis, but have never referred to him as my teacher because "the seminar thing" is not the same as years of follow-up in a specific method.
Good seminars though!

[idquest]

Well, from your account, Bruce has never called himself your teacher; which means you can't actually call him your teacher. More like a source of knowledge.

 

15 years of commitment is a lot. But if time has come to move on - this is the change that you have identified yourself. Just man up and make the change without looking back.

 

I found it interesting that BKF has taken long Dzogchen retreats. Does that mean that he has hit the glass ceiling with his own practice of permanent dissolving?

 

We should also always remember that his passion has always been martial arts. Just watch how he talks about meditation and qigong - and then he totally transforms when he talks about martial applications and combat. Whatever he says about meditation  - his passion is martial arts.

[Bud Jetsun]

People often have a vision of what their ideal teacher would be.

 

Every teacher will fall short of this.

 

If you are serious about your vision.

 

As this happens, it is making your vision real.

 

You will become that teacher you are looking for.

 

You saw it.

 

And if not you, then who else would be seeing it?

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Beautiful.

 

The best teacher in any situation is a whole-hearted inward look. The rest is ultimately distraction.

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

[liminal_luke]

Hi Robin,

 

Just some thoughts. What a major life transition, to go from spending 15 years of committed study with someone and then just letting it go, seeing what else comes your way. The word that comes to me is "divorce." Certainly, there´s a need to grieve this life passage.

 

It might seem like a total break, but I´d encourage you to see your new direction as simply a continuation of the spiritual path you´ve been on, in a sense, since birth. You were learning spiritually before you ever met BK Franztis. (If not, you would never have been attracted to his teaching in the first place.) You learned a lot with him, and now you will continue this journey with someone else or on your own. As traumatic as this break from a long-time teacher may feel, it´s actually just a crucial next step in a continuing process, a necessary -- if difficult -- part of your evolution.

 

Liminal

Edited December 19, 2015 by liminal_luke

[GreytoWhite]

I found it interesting that BKF has taken long Dzogchen retreats. Does that mean that he has hit the glass ceiling with his own practice of permanent dissolving?

 

We should also always remember that his passion has always been martial arts. Just watch how he talks about meditation and qigong - and then he totally transforms when he talks about martial applications and combat. Whatever he says about meditation  - his passion is martial arts.

 

Kumar spent time in India or Tibet (can't recall at the moment) previous to his time with Liu Hung Chieh.

[Robin]

Thanks for your replies guys.

 

I found the best way to come to terms with my disappointment in the teachers was to recognize that they were just human beings like everyone else, people who make mistakes, make bad decisions which they think are good ones, do the wrong thing when they think they are doing the right thing, suffer from ignorance and self-deception. To look at them as people and at their life situation and how they had come to be who they were, the good and the bad, and see their actions and as a result of that chain of events.

 

Of course you're right about this. However, the difficulty with this is that Bruce doesn't actually present himself as "just a human being". He has a massive presence and boasts so much about his achievements that it's actually hard to see the "normal" human beneath. I don't think I've ever seen him express vulnerability.Of course it's there, just hard to discern, especially if you're not looking for it...

 

Just some thoughts. What a major life transition, to go from spending 15 years of committed study with someone and then just letting it go, seeing what else comes your way. The word that comes to me is "divorce." Certainly, there´s a need to grieve this life passage.

 

Thank you for the empathy. It's definitely is a big deal, but I understand that it is part of my journey.

 

We should also always remember that his passion has always been martial arts. Just watch how he talks about meditation and qigong - and then he totally transforms when he talks about martial applications and combat. Whatever he says about meditation  - his passion is martial arts.

 

A very interesting point. BFK always claims to be passionate about teaching meditation, but the story about how he came to start doing it seems to involve some strong encouragement from Liu and some resistance from Bruce - I've often had the sense that it's something he does to pay off some karmic debt rather than from genuine gladness - perhaps that explains his apparent aloofness towards me and others who he doesn't respect as fighters?

 

I found it interesting that BKF has taken long Dzogchen retreats. Does that mean that he has hit the glass ceiling with his own practice of permanent dissolving?

 

Bruce's answer to this is that Liu died before completing the final stage of Inner Alchemy with him. He now looks to Wangdor Rinpoche as someone who can possibly help him to complete the work, albeit from a different tradition. Bruce maintains that Dzogchen and Taoist Meditation have a common root.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Robin

[Songtsan]

I'm curious. In all your seminars, have you ever witnessed or expierienced some of the mor eosteric feats that he is supposedly capable of? Such as Fa Jin, for example?

[doc benway]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Robin.

 

I find the teacher-student relationship to be a very important and complicated thing.

I can't speak to Bruce specifically other than to say he is not quite as knowledgeable about fire methods as he claims to be. 

I say this based on comments in his meditation books that betray a superficial understanding of fire methods even though he claims advanced instruction in such methods.

His tendency to emphasize his accomplishments is somewhat of a cultural tendency (Asians tend to be overly self deprecating whereas Westerners tend to be self aggrandizing) but undoubtedly this is also an individual idiosyncrasy.

I do think Bruce is an accomplished martial artist and clearly there is value to the water method he teaches.

 

I've had interesting relationships with my two primary meditation teachers. 

Much of the character and stability of the relationship stems from expectations and on both sides.

It is very important for both student and teacher to be clear regarding what they expect from the other and what they are able and willing to provide for the other.

Like it or not, we need to be clear and acknowledge these parameters and let go of unrealistic expectations.

 

There is only so much that a spiritual guide or teacher can provide. The most effective methods are often the most simple but require great commitment and persistence. With all due respect, I would think that after 15 years of committed daily practice, one should be relatively independent in their practice and have a good sense of where to go and how to get there. If there are more advanced levels to focus on, there should be an opportunity to get additional specific instruction or, if not, that should be made clear by the teacher (ether that there is nothing more to learn or that he chooses not to offer it). It's important to look at what you expect from Bruce as a teacher and see how that matches up to what is realistic. 

 

I've faced similar questions with my current and former teacher. We all need different things at different times depending on our individual propensities and circumstances. The one important thing is that unrealistic expectations or other challenges to the teacher-student relationship will follow us into every relationship and must be made clear.

 

Here is a link to what I found to be a very useful talk on the teacher-student relationship by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. It may be helpful for you because, in many ways, his teaching model is similar to that of Bruce Frantzis. 

 

Good luck on your path, wherever it may take you. 

 

 

 

 

Some concerns and unanswered questions regarding learning Taoist Meditation with BK Frantzis

 

The context of the following points is of my having practiced Taoist Meditation as taught by Bruce Frantzis for about fifteen years, with annual attendance at his meditation-related teachings and a practice schedule of one to two hours a day. Prior to that I had studied with senior EA instructors for nearly a decade, so I’m talking from a position of some experience, rather than hearsay or just having read some books. I have recently decided to take a break from the practices Bruce has taught me, and am re-evaluating my relationship to him as a teacher. Obviously I have got a lot from the practice of Taoist meditation or I wouldn’t have stuck with it for so long. However, the focus of this post is on the less positive aspects of my experience.

 

·        Bruce learned much of what he teaches studying one-on-one with his main Teacher Liu Hung Chieh for several hours a day over several years. He says in his books that personal feedback from a genuine master is essential for making progress and avoiding delusion. However, he doesn’t offer this kind of personal feedback. Instead, in my experience, he is not very approachable - in fact he can come across as very unfriendly. He will answer questions (in a manner that often comes across as reluctant and condescending), but in my experience he doesn’t always listen carefully or understand exactly what is being asked. The idea of having a relaxed, nuanced conversation with him about my practice seems impossible. This is in spite of the fact that in order to have the opportunity to talk to him I might have spent a lot of money and travelled a long way.

·        For some reason, there appears to be NO ONE else outside of China (excepting a few of his senior instructors) who teaches the method of Inner Dissolving from the tradition he claims to be part of.  Perhaps when he started teaching, this was understandable what with the language barrier and general level of cultural exchange, but now, decades later, why are there no other representatives of the “Water Tradition” offering their teaching to westerners?

·        Whatever the reason for the last point, the situation is very unusual and prone to difficulties. After all, there is no realistic source of verification or alternative perspective or simply the opportunity to learn the same method from a teacher with a different personality.

·        Bruce is a student of Dzogchen master Wangdor Rimpoche, who has another student, Lama Lena, who offers much more support than Bruce. She told me that she only takes on as many students as she can maintain a personal connection with, and makes a point of always replying to emails written by students since she recognises how much effort and care has been put into writing them. Bruce has on a couple of occasions replied to messages from me on Facebook, for which I am grateful. However, one of these replies took over a year, and one message had no reply.

·        I understand that Bruce has many students and cannot be available to everyone. This seems fine for health practices, but when it comes to meditation, I find myself wondering if he is spreading himself too thin to make the path he teaches genuinely viable, in the absence of anyone else from his lineage available to offer guidance, feedback and support.

·        There sometimes seems to be a lack continuity or follow-up between mediation teachings. For example, one year in Oxford Bruce taught about how to dissolve the mind directly without going via the body, and another year he taught the use of sound to work with the first three energy bodies. Neither of these teaching had any follow-up as far as I know. There are also lots of audio and video resources available, which is great. However, without some guidance, it’s hard to know which of the many aspects and practices to work on at any given point. Bruce’s quote from Liu of “So, you’re a baby then, who needs to be told what to practice?” doesn’t quite sit right with me given the difference in learning contexts - ie intensive daily observation and input vs. annual workshops with many other students.

·        Maybe it’s a small deal, but why does Bruce feel the need to spend so much time talking about his achievements and just how amazing he is? For me it goes beyond instilling confidence in his credentials or the power of the practices and becomes somewhat grating.

·        The sense of always more - there is something about the way Bruce presents his teaching that I hear as implying that we as students are really complete beginners however long we might have been learning. Years ago a student of his who had left him said that it took meditation away from being a basic human activity everyone can do to something very elitist that you need special transmission in order to do properly. This a perspective shared by some Buddhist schools as well. It might well be the case, but there might also be an element of “the Emperor’s New Clothes” going on. It’s hard to say, and is a point of discernment.

·        Finally, in my recent research into alternative spiritual paths and teachers, I came across an article about Zen meditation in which the author wrote that to consider that someone is your teacher, you must see them in person a least once a year and they must KNOW YOUR NAME! Perhaps the crux of my whole experience here is that I predict a low probability that Bruce could remember my name unprompted, in spite of the time, effort and money I have put into learning from him. Of course one could argue that he has given me a great gift by sharing the teachings, and is in no way beholden to me, but regardless, there’s something about the totality as my experience which “doesn’t feel quite right.”

 

The reason I’m going into so much detail and thinking and writing about all this is that it is actually a very big deal to move on from a mediation teacher and practice that has been a huge part of my life over such a long time. I think ideally I would not make this change, but with things as they are and not knowing how to address them, it feels more true to myself to cut myself adrift and see what else comes my way re spiritual guidance. It’s hard to measure the benefits I’ve received through my loyalty to this path, although I expect they are immense. I’d like to feel more at peace and have some resolution with Bruce around my experience, but maybe for now I need to allow myself to feel a bit angry and disillusioned in order to help me make the transition to the next stage of my journey.

 

*****

 

I'm curious to read any constructive comments and/or feedback from what I've written. Has anyone here had similar experiences either with Bruce or any other teacher? 

 

I'm off to a weekend retreat on Mindfulness today. Should be interesting....

[vonkrankenhaus]

I'm sorry for this - but I have only recently become aware of recent books and teachers and workshops.

 

I am looking at these books by this guy and others.

 

We just laughed and laughed seeing them.

 

The whole phenomenon seems incredible.

 

Yes - we can see there would be problems arising eventually.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Robin]

Here is a link to what I found to be a very useful talk on the teacher-student relationship by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. It may be helpful for you because, in many ways, his teaching model is similar to that of Bruce Frantzis.

 

Thanks for this. I've actually been investigating this guy as a potential teacher for a while now. I've got three of his books and have participated in some online teachings. I really like the clarity of his teaching, and the practices seem to go very deep. I also enjoy his apparent humility and his sense of humor.

 

Much of the character and stability of the relationship stems from expectations and on both sides.

It is very important for both student and teacher to be clear regarding what they expect from the other and what they are able and willing to provide for the other.

Like it or not, we need to be clear and acknowledge these parameters and let go of unrealistic expectations.

 

This sounds reasonable. One of my expectations, (or requirements even) re a teacher is that it should be fairly easy to get answers to specific practice questions that arise from long term practice. This was not the case with Bruce. Even when I did get a chance to ask something face-to-face, he would not really listen to what I was saying, so his answers often missed the point. This is especially problematic when there is AFAIK no one else outside of China who knows anything about the specific methods which he teaches. This just seems too untenable for a serious practitioner to accept. 

 

 

. With all due respect, I would think that after 15 years of committed daily practice, one should be relatively independent in their practice and have a good sense of where to go and how to get there. If there are more advanced levels to focus on, there should be an opportunity to get additional specific instruction 

 

Bruce suggests that there are much more advanced levels than what I already practice. This year he taught a more advanced seminar on using the left, right and central channels. However, it's all very piecemeal and as I say there's no opportunity to discuss when and how to integrate these deeper aspects in relation to my particular level of development. Without the channel of communication more clear, I no longer feel inclined to go further down this path.

 

Bruce intends to set up a Taoist retreat center with will help to address some of the types of problem that I've experienced, such as the pitfalls of the seminar format. This will probably be great. However, there's something about the "one man show" aspect of what he teaches which I think will always bug me. His senior instructors may well become excellent meditation teachers, but everything they teach will have come through Bruce. I've been willing to have the level of trust and faith that this bizarre situation requires for a long time, but for now that is no longer the case.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Robin

[thelerner]

This is gold right here, diamonds, rubies, and sapphires too. My first meditation teacher was also my professional mentor and I looked up to him quite a bit. After a few years his life crashed around him due to a number of factors and I came to a similar realization - regardless of how far along a spiritual path one may be, even teachers are people with flaws.

Its the exact same in the martial art world.  We are right to hold masters in high esteem but put them up too high on a pedestal and we risk getting crushed. 

 

For them and for us the worst thing we can do is pretend our flaws (or crazy) are somehow signs of progress.   Or worse that our insights allow us to rise above common morality. 

 

On the third hand when you're a star in any field, 1,000s of people want your time and act like they deserve it.  To protect it you get a little callused.  So some degree of aloofness comes with the territory. 

[Gerard]

The context of the following points is of my having practiced Taoist Meditation as taught by Bruce Frantzis for about fifteen years, with annual attendance at his meditation-related teachings and a practice schedule of one to two hours a day.

 

15 years? You are not alone, please read the file "Bagua, Life and the Mind." There is a Buddhist monk that relates a similar experience.

 

 

I'm curious to read any constructive comments and/or feedback from what I've written. Has anyone here had similar experiences either with Bruce or any other teacher? 

 

I'm off to a weekend retreat on Mindfulness today. Should be interesting....

 

Very important to find a good teacher, please allow me to quote the following old saying:

 

There are well-known masters but the truly great are only known by few.

 

 

Pay little or no attention to those who are keen to promote themselves, especially in our modern world, we don't live in ancient Greece, the times of the Yellow Emperor, or India, 2,500 years ago where things were passed on in an altruistic manner.

 

And more important is finding a method that works! Not all work, unfortunately, especially today with our extremely blocked minds due to excessive technology, materialism, environmental imbalance and decreased deforestation, which IMO is the most important factor as the hun (wood) generates (nourishes) the shen (fire, rising aspect of the spirit).

 

Best of luck.

[growant]

Have you considered sending your first post on this thread to BKF as a letter?  If you're going to leave anyway, what's the harm/risk?  Perhaps there's a small chance he'll apologize/mend his ways.

 

I do not know the man, but perhaps he comes from a place of trying to make as much money as he can while giving as little as possible for it in return.  I once had an old  Chinese bagua teacher (not saying this is a racial thing) who seemed to act in this way.

I, myself, have had at least one job where I tried to get paid as much as I could for doing as little as I could.