Hatred.

[thelerner]

No benefits come from taxation.. You appear to talk of 'high ideals' with a degree of contempt.

What you consider 'high ideals' are what I consider living in fantasy world.  One where the Sicilian mafia is robbing you several times a day, every single day of your life. 

 

Course you admit yourself you don't live your high ideals, you just complain bitterly and with great exaggeration about how things are. 

[Karl]

What you consider 'high ideals' are what I consider living in fantasy world.  One where the Sicilian mafia is robbing you several times a day, every single day of your life. 

 

Course you admit yourself you don't live your high ideals, you just complain bitterly and with great exaggeration about how things are. 

 

Where did I say "..robbing several times a day" ? I said that the Sicilian mafia routinely extract protection money from businesses in the areas of Sicily and mainland Italy. These businesses have not signed any form of contract, or agreed to pay by setting up business in those areas-just as I didn't sign any contract, or agreed to one by being born on a piece of land that just happens to be the province of another kind of criminal gang referred to as 'the British government'.

 

Of course I live by my values. What made you think I didn't ?

[thelerner]

we tend to pay taxes several times a day.  Every time we buy things as well as for.. listen to the Beatles song Taxman https://youtu.be/MbQiVQuiu04. 

 

Your 'values' seem to be that paying taxes makes you a victim, going so far as using a Nazi comparison.  Seems like a bad way to live thinking you're being robbed every day, several times a day and not appreciating any of the services you get for it. 

 

You realize it's not about where you live?  If you left your province, you'd still end up paying taxes and living under another governments laws, regulations and tax structure.  Nobody likes it but its part of the social contract we make to live in our civilization.   Other then a fantasy in your head is there a place where there's no taxes, regulations or laws you'd have to follow?  <and would you be strong enough to defend your stuff against others who live there>

 

Your values are you want to be a total libertarian.?  Pay no taxes, follow no laws or regulations unless you voluntarily agree to them before hand.  Fine, but you don't live that way, rather you live and complain loudly that the world doesn't match your anarchic utopia.   It seems.. pointless. 

 

There are guys here who actively seeking out or at least researching anarchic utopia's.  Which is great, I've actually written up some of the Anarchic communities in the Anarchy thread.   Personally I'm a Burner so I live a week or two outside the constrains of many societal rules.  (Nice place to visit, but Burning Man is not long term sustainable)    You want Utopian community you have to be the one who moves, cause society isn't going to change for you.

 

Getting back to the OP, its silly to live your life hating- thinking your being ripped off by the Sicilian mafia and your a Jew to to a Nazi government.  If you truly feel that way, that's awful. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by thelerner

[Karl]

we tend to pay taxes several times a day.  Every time we buy things as well as for.. listen to the Beatles song Taxman https://youtu.be/MbQiVQuiu04. 

 

Your 'values' seem to be that paying taxes makes you a victim, going so far as using a Nazi comparison.  Seems like a bad way to live thinking you're being robbed every day, several times a day and not appreciating any of the services you get for it. 

 

You realize it's not about where you live?  If you left your province, you'd still end up paying taxes and living under another governments laws, regulations and tax structure.  Nobody likes it but its part of the social contract we make to live in our civilization.   Other then a fantasy in your head is there a place where there's no taxes, regulations or laws you'd have to follow? 

 

Your values are you want to be a total libertarian.?  Pay no taxes, follow no laws or regulations unless you voluntarily agree to them before hand.  Fine, but you don't live that way, rather you live and complain loudly that the world doesn't match your anarchic utopia.   It seems.. pointless. 

 

There are guys here who actively seeking out or at least researching anarchic utopia's.  Which is great, I've actually written up some of the Anarchic communities in the Anarchy thread.   Personally I'm a Burner so I live a week or two outside the constrains of many societal rules.  (Nice place to visit, but Burning Man is not long term sustainable)    You want Utopian community you have to be the one who moves, cause society isn't going to change for you.

 

Getting back to the OP, its silly to live your life hating- thinking your being ripped off by the Sicilian mafia and your a Jew to to a Nazi government.  If you truly feel that way, that's awful. 

 

I don't demand that others pay tax, or that any public services should be provided. I'm not screaming for the state to do something about everything. I just live within the system the best I can and recognise it as being one of coercive force-not to prevent crime, but to initiate it. I don't intend, neither could I afford to move anywhere else.

 

However, this isn't about me, or my views on the state. I know what it is, I'm saying that taxation is not simply a form of benefit, but the result of those that wish to take what they haven't earned by using the force of the state to back up their demands. It's those people who demand that 'the rich shoulder the greatest burden'. That anyone who Is succesful needs to be robbed until they squeak to create a 'fairer' society. That somebody must pay if we cannot. Hidden in those thoughts is hatred, jealousy, envy of those who are succesful. We often see this reflected in films in which the 'jock' who gets all the women and owns a beautiful sports car is seen to beat up the poor nerd-not that this is a reality, but films like to portray the succesful as violent psychopaths.

 

It's this hidden hatred, concealed by a faux justice that is the root cause of our societal ills. It is not the 'tax' that is the ill, but those who demand values they did not earn from those that did. The tax is only a symptom of what's wrong, not the wrong itself-just as a gun is not the killer, but the man who pulled the trigger.

 

I said before that I wasn't a libertarian, nor an anarchist- these ideologies are more of the same subjectivism. Paying tax, or not paying tax, is immaterial to me. It is what hides behind it. I have no wish to live in a utopian community, neither to run away (unless my life is threatened), or to create some backwoods fantasy. My only intention is to live to my values and hopefully inspire a few others to reason likewise in order that they find happiness instead of hatred. That those who lobby governments in order to gain profits they did not earn, or goods/services they cannot pay for should realise what they are doing in the full light of their consciousness.

 

 

 

 

[gatito]

Karl reminds me of Roberto Saviano.

 

“Capitalism,” says Saviano, “needs the criminal syndicates and criminal markets… This is the most difficult thing to communicate. People – even people observing organised crime – tend to overlook this, insisting upon a separation between the black market and the legal market. It’s the mentality that leads people in Europe and the USA to think of a mafioso who goes to jail as a mobster, a gangster. But he’s not, he’s a businessman, and his business, the black market, has become the biggest market in the world.”

 

This is Saviano’s sagacious heresy. For decades, writing on global mafia has presumed a Manichean schism between cops and robbers; our healthy society and law enforcement on one hand battling organised crime on the other (with occasional erring by the former). But the trail blazed by Saviano and very few others demolishes that account, backed by every recent development in Mexico’s narco-nightmare, including and especially the escape, again, of the heir to Escobar’s mantle, Joaquin “Chapo” Guzman, from supposedly maximum-security jail. Narco cartels like Guzman’s are not adversaries of global capitalism, nor even pastiches of it; they are integral to – and pioneers of – the free market. They are its role model.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/dec/26/man-who-exposed-lie-war-on-drugs-roberto-saviano-ed-vulliamy

[Rara]

Ok, I have asked many different people on this and now I come to you guys for your opinions.

 

Let's talk about "Hate"

 

Can hate be healthy? Hate is a natural emotion, the counteremotion to Love, or tolerance...but we should tolerate evil? We know the difference between right and wrong...but we all know that is subjective and right and wrong does vary...but if someone absolutely brings the utter emotion of hatred out of you, because of the way they act towards you, should you feel ashamed, or no? After all..it IS natural.

A bit late to this one but I'll throw my opinion in.

 

I am extremely aggressive and hateful sometimes...have had a lot of anger issues and am currently in counselling for the 4th time, plus seeing an acupuncture therapist.

 

Following the recent relapse I have come to learn (again...as I forgot...lost my way) that we should not feel ashamed, no. Your emotions are your emotions. Never apologise for the way you feel. However, if you are to cultivate peace and balance, eventually hate will subside and you will experience it less.

 

Angry emotions will always come and go...but whether you entertain these emotions is a different story altogether.

 

All the best.

[Karl]

Karl reminds me of Roberto Saviano.

 

Capitalism is merely the mechanism here, the drug trade that Saviano exposes is created by the governments who make it illegal. This creates high demand and poor supply. exactly the same situation occurred during prohibition. It creates artificially high prices and criminalises the growers, suppliers, dealers and users. It pushes the business underground and into the hands of those who are already criminals.

 

This isn't Laissez Faire, or pro-capitalism, it is pro-state intervention and criminality. Saviano is right, in that this is big business and that supposedly upstanding institutions are happy to launder the money. This can only happen as long as criminalisation and drug prohibition keeps the price and margins high, but that would collapse almost overnight if cocaine use was fully legalised. It would probably kill off the CIA/MI6 black ops units.

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Taomeow]

.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Taomeow

[Junko]

People talk about hate that is why there is war.

[shanlung]

People talk about hate that is why there is war.

Wrong!

 

It is when they stop talking that war will come.

 

Idiotic Taoist preferring jaw jaw to war war

[Junko]

Wrong!

 

It is when they stop talking that war will come.

 

Idiotic Taoist preferring jaw jaw to war war

It's not about wrong or right.

War is over, man!

[Karl]

People talk about hate that is why there is war.

 

There is a time for hate and for war.

 

What should be investigated is the reason for the hate. Is that reason just ? Man must weigh the twin responsibilities of justice and mercy. He has a choice and can reason using his own morality as a measure. If his moral virtue is false, then there will be no justice. In place of justice will be envy, or greed; in place of mercy there will be appeasement, or cowardice.

 

A moral man will gain no value from hatred, or any war that follows from it. He will only retain the values he already has. An immoral man will try and gain what he has not earned, or worse, he will attempt to destroy the good for being the good. He will destroy value through his hatred of it.

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

 War is over, man!

Yeah, all over.

[silent thunder]

[Jadespear]

Ok, I have asked many different people on this and now I come to  you guys for your opinions.

 

Let's talk about "Hate"

 

Can hate be healthy? Hate is a natural emotion, the counteremotion to Love, or tolerance...but we should tolerate evil? We know the difference between right and wrong...but we all know that is subjective and right and wrong does vary...but if someone absolutely brings the utter emotion of hatred out of you, because of the way they act towards you, should you feel ashamed, or no? After all..it IS natural. 

 

First you need to understand what you actually mean by saying that it is natural....... the entire natural world is an entanglement of desire, attachment, aversion, and contention.  To say anything is natural in validating one's feelings is insignificant if you are actually trying to learn something about it.  If you simply want to believe that hatred is ok, then fine.... but it seems that you are trying to enlighten yourself as to what the deal is with hatred.  Your thoughts, my thoughts, everyone's thoughts on if hatred is right or wrong is insignificant unless you understand why it occurs.  All desire, attachment, and aversion arise through the field of the mind.  In short, you feel hatred because because you are so attached mentally at the subconscious level or conscious level to the exact opposite of whatever is occuring that intense aversion to it arises, or you feel your ego has been damaged.  Is this not so?  Why does hatred happen?  Where does the feeling come from?  Isn't it just because we are basically either confused, totally disagree, or completely and totally resent whatever it is that we hate?

 

In reality, yes I would say that hatred arising is natural.  But in saying so, I am associating an entire explanation of what nature actually is, which basically means that saying things are " natural " isn't saying anything to substantiate as to why they happen, without deeper contemplation.  And if you do hate, then the hate consumes you.  If you let yourself be deluded by instinctual reactionary feelings to a self contained fulfilling-reality that you are self-replicating as proof of itself to yourself.  Then yeah, you will fall victim to the entanglements that hatred creates.

[dust]

there has to be some value of hate, for after all...isn't everything in this beautiful cosmos of SOME value no matter how small?

 

No.

 

The notion that 'everything has value' is entirely meaningless.

 

We can't claim that everything has a shape, or a colour, or a feeling, or utility... so how can we claim that everything, including abstract concepts such as 'hate', has an abstract property such as 'value' ?

 

Value is all in your mind. It is a human concept. Rats, rocks, clouds...none of these talk of the 'value' of the others.

 

Nothing has value but that which you ascribe to it. Life has no value but to the living who decide they love to be alive.

 

Hate has value only if you decide it has. And if you decide it has, whether or not this 'value' is going to make you happy is another matter.

 

I've found no use for hatred in my life thus far. It's never made anything better, for me or others. These days... I feel it, recognize it, but move on from it.

[zerostao]

it looks like kentucky is an island of acceptance surrounded by a stormy sea of hate

 

[Stosh]

Maybe theyve already lynched or run everyone dissenting , out of town.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Emotional energy can only work when we our selves have this hate, anger, fear and all the rest. We are looking at our reflection and how these things effect us. If we did not fear these hate groups or terrorist their cause would ultimately have no effect. 

 

Any other animal on this planet can not be made to do stuff out of fear or death only humans, that is weird.

[Brian]

it looks like kentucky is an island of acceptance surrounded by a stormy sea of hate

 

I'd advise caution with that source -- SPLC labels as "hate group" pretty much anyone who doesn't align with their ideology.

[zerostao]

I'd advise caution with that source -- SPLC labels as "hate group" pretty much anyone who doesn't align with their ideology.

i hope they are wrong, but i wonder, becoz in that area lexington ky it shows a couple and i know there are some there that hate blue devils and cardinals not to mention vols.

[Brian]

i hope they are wrong, but i wonder, becoz in that area lexington ky it shows a couple and i know there are some there that hate blue devils and cardinals not to mention vols.

Well, hating Duke is understandable...

 

 

 

(Actually, I have great respect for Coach K and the qualities he brings forth in his players -- there's just so much fun wrapped up in the Research Triangle rivalries!)

[PLB]

One thing that really stuck with me after reading Buber is his focus on hatred as a kind of intimacy. Not the opposite of love seen as a process of connection but similar as an approach or hope for exclusivity.

From that observation, I see the question as what is the Dao in relation to intensely felt connections?

[Junko]

Hatred never ceases by hatred;by love alone is it healed.This is the ancient and eternal law.