Hatred.

[Metal Tao]

OK, so on to my personal philosophy. 

 

No, I do not think we should actively seek hatred, but I think hatred being ignored without resolution or closure will be what is the end to us all..

 

I think we need to act on our hatred, (no, listen, I'm not advocating blowing stuff up etc)

 

I think we need to express our anger, disgust, etc etc, even if you have to do it in a polite and kind way...

 

Because I think if we have two options, hatred with honesty, or loving-kindness with dishonesty, you should chose the honest and hateful...be expressive about what bothers you...

 

I think it is just as bad to deny one's feelings and fall to the right as it is to over-indulge in one's feelings and fall to the left...

 

I think every feeling we have should be analyzed, and then we can move on...but there's a reason for our hatred, our sense of indignation and disgust. They're good feelings because they give you a clearer understanding of what the feelings of love, kindness, etc feel like.

[Taomeow]

.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

Incidentally, there's been a British study recently.  (Oh, the things they study!  I wonder what the return of a  valuable bit of information obtained per tax dollar is...)  People who take the position of "positivity" in life vs. people who take their feelings "as is" were compared in terms of their health and longevity.  Result: "positive attitude," 'focusing on the good things," "manifesting happy feelings" seem to impair health and shorten one's life.

 

That's because we spend more life force on maintaining lies -- truths are more energy efficient.   Happy happy joy joy by choice rather than by inner reality is very taxing on the organs and systems of the body and mind.

 

Of course if one is "really" happy and loving, not "decided to be happy and loving" via policing oneself inside and out, that is likely to prolong life and improve health (one's own and that of the surrounding people I'm sure.)  But they don't know how to study that.  How to tell real happiness and generosity of spirit from happiness and love imitation by convolution and denial of one's inner truth.   

Edited December 25, 2015 by Taomeow

[3bob]

anger well directed is not hatred, for hatred goes hand in hand with rage which is an uncontrolled and unreasoning beast and becoming a portal for that never goes well for either party.

[Daeluin]

Hate I don't think necessarily has to be fed, I think there's a certain type of hate that's instant, comes in an instant and can go in and instant. 

 

Personally, I feel hatred is being confused with anger here.

 

Anger = Pressurized emotional force that is upset and needs to express or transform, but does not necessarily have a fixation and obsession over what caused it.

 

Hatred = Anger that is focused on what easily becomes an obsession over some particular trigger, be it a person, ideology, situation, etc.

 

 

In Chinese astrology, people with excess wood tend to have anger management issues. There is a energy that is easily aroused and yet is very difficult to channel without using force. It isn't because someone is a bad person, it is just difficult energy to channel. I have almost no wood and rarely have any anger issues, but I also have to work very hard to arouse energy for use.

 

 

Yes, I am the type of person reflected by liminal_luke's post...I am very sharp, in all honesty I'm goofy and fun to be around but when my temper is set off, it's set off badly...especially if dealing with something I find abhorrent, hypocrisy, vulgarity..etc

 

I thought it was very interesting because I clashed with another manager at work today, became extremely vehement with one another, and normally in that state of mind as my brain processes the anger and lets it filter out I find myself (maybe just in the short term) being more focused and productive.

 

Granted..at MY place of work I am always forced to be the bad guy..someone has to ensure things get done I guess...lol

 

Of course only you know what is right for you. If I was in your shoes, I might see this as a karmic challenge, and recognize that I will continue to be put in situations where I feel as though I am forced to step in and make things right, even though others will view me as the bad guy - until I learn to accept that things will be OK if I don't step in, and that the real challenge is that I don't know how to hold myself back, and I don't know how to allow things to be out of my control. But I'm not in your shoes and I don't know what your karmic challenges really are, so it's just a wild guess based on what this situation reminds me of.

 

The trouble with holding back the urge to act, is that this energy that is pent up within doesn't have its usual outlet. And it needs an outlet. It needs to transform somehow, and that can be through expression, but it doesn't need to be expression via controlling a situation, it can be physical exercise, it can be reshaped through qigong, it can be through mental application of work, anything that uses energy. The key is to channel it in a refined way, not in a forceful way, which is the main challenge. Great power needs great restraint.

 

OK, so on to my personal philosophy. 

 

No, I do not think we should actively seek hatred, but I think hatred being ignored without resolution or closure will be what is the end to us all..

 

I think we need to act on our hatred, (no, listen, I'm not advocating blowing stuff up etc)

 

I think we need to express our anger, disgust, etc etc, even if you have to do it in a polite and kind way...

 

Because I think if we have two options, hatred with honesty, or loving-kindness with dishonesty, you should chose the honest and hateful...be expressive about what bothers you...

 

I think it is just as bad to deny one's feelings and fall to the right as it is to over-indulge in one's feelings and fall to the left...

 

I think every feeling we have should be analyzed, and then we can move on...but there's a reason for our hatred, our sense of indignation and disgust. They're good feelings because they give you a clearer understanding of what the feelings of love, kindness, etc feel like.

 

Honesty and sincerity never need to be compromised.

 

But this is a complicated subject. Often telling a person what is true but they cannot access as truth, is just as effective as lying, and telling a person what might be more accessible (yet still true), may seem to them like you are holding back or redirecting, even though it is not lying. There is never a need to lie, but there is always a path of communication that - still using truth and sincerity - creates the most harmonious possible outcome.

 

The more we are able to refine ourselves, the more refined choices can be made in our actions and our communications, without ever needing to complicate things by adding dishonesty or duplicity to the equation.

[thelerner]

I see hate in similar terms as anger.  Don't deny it when its felt but don't feed it either.  See if if you can figure out if its correctly aimed, its roots and pay special attention to the role you played in it.  Then don't let if fester, that's the worst thing you can do.  If you can't get over it, then strategize, come up with a something you can do preferably positive (or not) to move the situation in a better direction. 

 

If there's nothing you can do about it, then either focus on doing some good somewhere else or work on controlling your mind better.   Do not be controlled by the whims of your emotions. 

[Taomeow]

Today I saw a one-year old, who already walks, pick up and then drop a stick, or rather a taiji equipment piece known as a bang, on the wooden floor, which produced a very loud bang that scared him.  He immediately gulped in what looked like a huge amount of air -- stockpiling for the job at hand -- and then screamed at the top of his voice, face turning a blotchy red, tears streaming -- got picked up and comforted -- the screams, piercing and forceful, three of them altogether, took thirty seconds to get out of the system, and then he was done.  In another thirty seconds he was smiling.  He almost always smiles and is happy, this was the first time I've ever seen him upset. 

 

This kid has been the lucky recipient of wise, beautiful parenting I've observed since he was one week old, and so far, because of that, he has the right idea of what to do with his feelings.  Most people never did and that's why they never will.  Parent, teacher, preacher, cop, doctor, politician will teach them how to stop knowing what they feel, and then how to stop feeling, and then how to fake feelings that aren't felt.  

 

The little kid hated something for thirty seconds -- the loud noise or his clumsy unreliable grasp or the stick that refused to be nice or the parent who failed to prevent the little mishap -- for thirty seconds.  That was a healthy reaction.  Hatred is neither transient nor lingering by design, in a healthy scenario it is commensurate with the transient or lingering nature of its cause.  If someone was to abuse this kid or any other, molest or torture or be emotionally cruel to him or any other kid, I would hate this someone for much longer.  Possibly forever.  If someone dropped something that scared me, I would perhaps differentiate between their dropping a stick vs. the atom bomb.  Some things are just not insignificant enough for a pop-sagely indifference -- others are not significant enough for strong, deep, lasting emotions, any of them, hatred or love.  Yes, some people love their smartphone, or their pizza, or their ability to make someone bite the dust. 

[Marblehead]

AussieTrees true...but there has to be some value of hate, for after all...isn't everything in this beautiful cosmos of SOME value no matter how small? Or it wouldn't be here...

That is the beginning of awareness.  To realize that if something does exist that it is an aspect of Tao.  If something "can" exist but yet does not it is still in the realm of potential.

 

In our real life we don't work with potential all that much but rather these things of manifest reality.

 

When hate manifests within us we must deal with it.

[3bob]

 twisted forms of fear can link-up with hate... and hate follows the pull of hell.

 

btw, "Heaven follows the way of Tao", TTC 25

[Stosh]

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Edited January 21, 2016 by Stosh

[shanlung]

But you could always pop-a-top of beer.

 

 

That I will do when I am thirsty.

 

In USA you can do that with Bud.

In my part of the world , I do that with a Tiger or Singha.

 

Idiotic Taoist who drink when he is thirsty and eat when he is hungry.

[Karl]

Ok, I have asked many different people on this and now I come to  you guys for your opinions.

 

Let's talk about "Hate"

 

Can hate be healthy? Hate is a natural emotion, the counteremotion to Love, or tolerance...but we should tolerate evil? We know the difference between right and wrong...but we all know that is subjective and right and wrong does vary...but if someone absolutely brings the utter emotion of hatred out of you, because of the way they act towards you, should you feel ashamed, or no? After all..it IS natural. 

 

We should not tolerate evil and it isn't subjective. If we have a working moral compass with reason as its base, then we can know, man is capable of this because of his knowledge of reality. It is only subjective if one is told conflicting things and refuses to apply reason 'love they enemy as they self' and 'turn the other cheek' are not reasoned beliefs, but then we must also have knowledge that our own virtues are pure and untainted by philosophical junk.

 

It is possible to hate that which is pure, if your own moral compass is spinning wildly and has dispensed with reason and logic. This isn't subjective, it's a conscious decision to ignore reason and reality by cultivating virtues/principles that are clearly in conflict, but from which one does not attempt to emerge.

 

The worst thing man can do is not to fail to act against evil, it is to fail to recognise it.

 

[thelerner]

  If someone was to abuse this kid or any other, molest or torture or be emotionally cruel to him or any other kid, I would hate this someone for much longer.  Possibly forever.

 

 

We should not tolerate evil and it isn't subjective...  The worst thing man can do is not to fail to act against evil, it is to fail to recognise it.

Life happens and we catch people at there worst.  When random factors align in horrible ways and people.. we, do bad things.  What we see is only a tiny slice of the reality there, people caught in a bad instance. 

 

When someone hits a child or does something that seems pretty evil, its good to breathe out the anger, clear the head, create a little mental space that acknowledges you don't know all the factors going on right then and there.  Without that pause we're likely to add and make the situation worse.  Fighting is easy, moving towards peace is hard. 

 

That's not saying you don't act (if you have to fight- fight, let the universe decide),  it's saying gain a little control over the fight or flight hormones running through your body so you can think clearly.  Breathe out the anger.   It allows your first words and your presence to be less confrontation and opens up options beyond a straight up pissing match and fight. 

[Taomeow]

When someone hits a child or does something that seems pretty evil, its good to breathe out the anger, clear the head, create a little mental space that acknowledges you don't know all the factors going on right then and there.

 

Oh yes I do. 

[WadeGarret]

Hate is a useless emotion that can do physical harm when exercised, on the one projecting and that which it is projected unto

Edited December 25, 2015 by WadeGarret

[Marblehead]

 The worst thing man can do is not to fail to act against evil, it is to fail to recognise it.

Worse than that, IMO.  To not act against it is actually accepting it (and this legalizes it).

[Marblehead]

Hate is a useless emotion that can do physical harm when exercised, on the one projecting and that which it is projected unto

Not only physical harm but also mental and emotional harm.

 

When we allow anger to evolve into hate we have fed our anger way too much.

[3bob]

ok, and we come back to that saying in the TTC. which I recently brought up namely, "that which is against Tao soon ceases to be" but as we know from history that which is against Tao does not completely cease - for it only recedes before that which is with Tao - thus it could be said to remain in waiting for it's next opportunity -  being that for hell (as that which is against Tao) to cease,  "heaven" as that which follows the ways of Tao (per the TTC). would also end up ceasing.  (leaving only Tao without its manifest permutations)

Edited December 26, 2015 by 3bob

[Karl]

Worse than that, IMO.  To not act against it is actually accepting it (and this legalizes it).

 

One has to recognise evil first. People compromise without realising they are actually compromising their principles. It is this compromising of their principles that is evil. People know that stealing is wrong, they know that taking a value by force is morally wrong, and yet they see taxation and distribution as a good. Nothing will convince them that theft is theft, that if it's morally wrong to steal, then redistribution must represent an immoral action.

[thelerner]

One has to recognise evil first. People compromise without realising they are actually compromising their principles. It is this compromising of their principles that is evil. People know that stealing is wrong, they know that taking a value by force is morally wrong, and yet they see taxation and distribution as a good. Nothing will convince them that theft is theft, that if it's morally wrong to steal, then redistribution must represent an immoral action.

and yet, you compromise by living in a society that does those things.  I assume you further compromise your high ideals by taking advantage of the many benefits that come from taxation.. like streets, public education, even such things as clean air. 

 

There are crimes that morally anger me, but taxation and distribution are part of the social contract we make.  They are unpleasant realities but I don't think they rise to the level of hatred.  You can avoid'em by going to a third world country where life is more caveat emptor.  

[Marblehead]

One has to recognise evil first. People compromise without realising they are actually compromising their principles. It is this compromising of their principles that is evil. People know that stealing is wrong, they know that taking a value by force is morally wrong, and yet they see taxation and distribution as a good. Nothing will convince them that theft is theft, that if it's morally wrong to steal, then redistribution must represent an immoral action.

Back during the Hippie days there were a few music artists who refused to accept any kind of payment for their music because they were so strongly against the Vietnam War and did not want to be a part of it in any way.

 

Yeah, it's sad we have no say as to how our tax dollars are spent by our government.

[Karl]

and yet, you compromise by living in a society that does those things.  I assume you further compromise your high ideals by taking advantage of the many benefits that come from taxation.. like streets, public education, even such things as clean air. 

 

There are crimes that morally anger me, but taxation and distribution are part of the social contract we make.  They are unpleasant realities but I don't think they rise to the level of hatred.  You can avoid'em by going to a third world country where life is more caveat emptor.  

 

No benefits come from taxation, it is the productive that provide the money to pay for those things. I no more compromise than the the victim who is forced to give his wallet to a thief in order to prevent physical harm. I do not demand streets, or public education. Clean air has nothing to do with the Government, indeed the opposite is true.

 

There is no social contract anymore than a Sicilian businessman will accept a contract with the mafia by living in Sicily . It is hatred for those who have more than others. It is a justification to use force to take values that are unearned. It is not for me to move to a third world country anymore than it was for the Jews to be thrown out of Germany, or to be murdered if they were unable to do so.

 

You appear to talk of 'high ideals' with a degree of contempt.

 

 

[3bob]

yea lerner, but it is insane that the middle class who are struggling just to do ok have to pay for all of the various presidents vacation trips to Maine, Hawaii, Texas and wherever else they may happen to be from - at the tune of multi-millions of dollars for the cost of Air Force One double flights and the manpower involved !!  (and that is just one very tiny example out of the thousands of  uncontrolled and corrupt forms of waste that the US government is committing with our tax money!)

[Taomeow]

The black budget dwarfs all expenditures on all social services combined -- and the paying/taxed party is not even informed what it is they are paying for.  Sorry, that's classified.   

 

To uphold constitutional laws is patriotic.  To uphold any which laws just because an agency or ten or a hundred were created to enforce them that have nothing to do with the constitution, the will of the people, or the apple pie is treason.   

 

It's funny how many cross the line between good law-abiding social behavior and society-destroying passive acceptance of any and all atrocities without noticing. 

 

Watched a movie the other day, "Bridge of Spies," based on a true story, about an American lawyer defending a Russian spy in court in the 1950s.  He reluctantly takes on the assignment, is told it's "for show," takes it seriously anyway, he's a professional used to doing his job well.  Earns universal contempt and hostility from everybody -- the whole society, even his own family: it's the height of the cold war and you are supposed to hate the loathsome spying enemy, no ifs and buts.  (In the meantime, an American spy who is not supposed to exist gets caught by the Russians, the plot thickens...)  The lawyer gets tons of hate mail, ostracism, shootings into his house nearly hitting his children, etc..  And all the while he's trying to explain to whoever doesn't want to listen that what he's doing is not treason but true-blue patriotism.  It's exactly the values we are supposed to defend he argues -- what's this cold war about anyway? -- defending our way of life, right? -- well, what is it, this way of life we don't want to lose? -- and how is it different from the way of life we don't want if we start picking and choosing who has and who hasn't the right to due process?.. 

 

Those were the times of innocence...  People hated who they were told to hate, no questions asked.   And the enemy to hate was always the "other."  I see much nostalgia for that kind of a simple deal today.  People are eager to hate, but get frustrated when there's too many targets, they can't focus properly...  Well, welcome to the new and improved way to hate thy neighbor: why don't you hate whoever is politically or spiritually incorrect -- hate the hater.  But of course you shouldn't call it hate or you'll be the hater yourself!  You should call this universal love instead.  And then exclude whoever loves something different from what you love, or doesn't love what you love with enough devotion, or otherwise is "different," "other."  Easy peasy.   

[MooNiNite]

continual hatred for me is an emotion that occurs when my life is out of balance, i.e. it occurs usually when i have some type of fear and am not taking responsibility.