Philosopher's Stone?

[MooNiNite]

Im curious why it is called the Philosopher's Stone?

 

What does this correspond to energetically?

 

What does a "stone" have to do with becoming a golden immortal?

 

 

The only thing I can think of is that the person themselves are the stone, and they are pounded and pounded into becoming a diamond or enlightened. 

 

That wouldn't make sense however if one views the stone as having the ability to turn base metals into gold, or mundane people into divine beings. 

 

Ideas? Opinions?

 

 

Edit: Emphasize the word Stone. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Silent Answers]

Your will must hard as stone to be successful. Whether or not this is what they meant when the term was coined, I don't know.

 

In my opinion, the names placed on this same thing (stone, pill, embryo etc..) are basically a mental process and construct to live by. Although, they very well may have equally valuable alternate meanings; possibly even physical.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Silent Answers

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Im curious why it is called the Philosopher's Stone?

 

What does this correspond to energetically?

 

What does a "stone" have to do with becoming a golden immortal?

 

 

The only thing I can think of is that the person themselves are the stone, and they are pounded and pounded into becoming a diamond or enlightened. 

 

That wouldn't make sense however if one views the stone as having the ability to turn base metals into gold, or mundane people into divine beings. 

 

Ideas? Opinions? (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

The details are complex, but it was considered something that only some one who was truly WISE, the real Philosopher could achieve, thus the Philosopher's Stone.

 

Turning "base metals into Gold" and "mundanes into Immortals" was because both people and metals were thought to have an inherent perfection, an end to which all striving was truly aimed, but only foolishness, the opposite of Wisdom kept them from realizing.  Metals were considered to be "living things" and their "inherent" perfection was Gold, which was "incorruptible", it did not tarnish, etc., and for people it was immortality, the cure of all diseases, including aging, was considered to be the "natural state", the truest expression of "real human nature".  Since at the root of all things was a fundamental unity, there was a "medicine of men and of metals" which would achieve this "end" of "perfection" in both people and metals.

 

That's the quick simple answer, more would require very lengthy posts just to explain the terminology on a basic level, much less explain how it was understood on a deeper level.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Tidied things up a bit.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Zhongyongdaoist

[Taoist Texts]

what ZYD just said.

 

Also the term itself as i have found out today comes from 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zosimos_of_Panopolis

 

 

who says 

 

Démocrite, distingue lui-même et dit : « Reçois cette pierre qui n’est pas une pierre, cette chose précieuse qui n’a pas de valeur, cet objet polymorphe qui n’a point de forme, cet inconnu qui est connu de tous, qui a plusieurs noms et qui n’a pas de nom:[39]

 

 

"This stone is not a stone, and has nor name nor shape"

 

From Gnostics the term was passed on to early Christianity and was adopted by the western medieval alchemists.

 

As to what it is and what he does Zosimos says

 

"C’est là le mystère incommuniqué, qu’aucun des prophètes n’a osé divulguer par la parole"

 

Its a secret.

[Michael Sternbach]

In Hermetic symbolism, a stone often represents physical manifestation as such. So the Philosopher's Stone is something that exists on the physical plane, a crystallization of Spirit.

 

And by "Philosopher", a natural philosopher was meant. It should be understood that philosophy once had a much wider scope than nowadays. It covered areas that are now the domain of natural science, but those were not considered inaccessible to philosophical or metaphysical reflection. Such a division was not made until the advent of the Scientific Revolution with its mechanization of the universe.

[MooNiNite]

The details are complex, but it was considered something that only some one who was truly WISE, the real Philosopher could achieve, thus the Philosopher's Stone.

 

Turning "base metals into Gold" and "mundanes into Immortals" was because both people and metals were thought to have an inherent perfection, an end to which all striving was truly aimed, but only foolishness, the opposite of Wisdom kept them from realizing.  Metals were considered to be "living things" and their "inherent" perfection was Gold, which was "incorruptible", it did not tarnish, etc., and for people it was immortality, the cure of all diseases, including aging, was considered to be the "natural state", the truest expression of "real human nature".  Since at the root of all things was a fundamental unity, there was a "medicine of men and of metals" which would achieve this "end" of "perfection" in both people and metals.

 

That's the quick simple answer, more would require very lengthy posts just to explain the terminology on a basic level, much less explain how it was understood on a deeper level.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Tidied things up a bit.

 

What about the word "stone"

 

Does it correlate to any energetic phenomenon?

[PLB]

Having put many stones into walls, I tend to look at the expression as an emphasis upon the tactile.

Aristotle spoke of the soul as starting with the sense of touch. For Aristotle, the act of representation was an incredible development from that first connection.
Is it true? Is our experience of what is not ourselves built up like a series of sensations? And if it is not true, is there an alternative explanation?

[Nungali]

What about the word "stone"

 

Does it correlate to any energetic phenomenon?

 

quartz

[JinlianPai]

Im curious why it is called the Philosopher's Stone?

 

What does this correspond to energetically?

 

What does a "stone" have to do with becoming a golden immortal?

 

 

The only thing I can think of is that the person themselves are the stone, and they are pounded and pounded into becoming a diamond or enlightened.

 

That wouldn't make sense however if one views the stone as having the ability to turn base metals into gold, or mundane people into divine beings.

 

Ideas? Opinions?

 

 

Edit: Emphasize the word Stone.

Dragons chase pearls and the pearl is wisdom.

 

Mountains represent wisdom as they are "earth going to heaven"

 

Earth is yellow mountain according feng shui is in the house of earth and shares the same color.

 

Mountains can be considered earth dragons.

 

In alchemy also referred as the dragons pearl of the golden earth pill.

Edited December 25, 2015 by JinlianPai

[voidisyinyang]

what ZYD just said.

 

Also the term itself as i have found out today comes from 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zosimos_of_Panopolis

 

 

who says 

 

Démocrite, distingue lui-même et dit : « Reçois cette pierre qui n’est pas une pierre, cette chose précieuse qui n’a pas de valeur, cet objet polymorphe qui n’a point de forme, cet inconnu qui est connu de tous, qui a plusieurs noms et qui n’a pas de nom:[39]

 

 

"This stone is not a stone, and has nor name nor shape"

 

From Gnostics the term was passed on to early Christianity and was adopted by the western medieval alchemists.

 

As to what it is and what he does Zosimos says

 

"C’est là le mystère incommuniqué, qu’aucun des prophètes n’a osé divulguer par la parole"

 

Its a secret.

 

the lineage from the gnostics can be traced back to Pythagoras....

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiqguSOjPbJAhWJuB4KHYIPC9kQFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fba278b9d8106536501a2-57da1f3fe93ccf3a9828e6ce67c3d52c.ssl.cf5.rackcdn.com%2Fonline_digest_pythagoreans_full_051109.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEUmZeJZ30eMNPmXVuv55tdoLZiKQ&sig2=zYzMV_cKZecMs0gUCCp39w&cad=rja

 

Peter Kingsley pdf on this -

 

so the "golden plates" that the Greeks used were Phoenician but originally Egyptian....

 

 

They were placed there during the seventh,

sixth, and fifth centuries BCE. The strips were

made by Phoenicians—but they’re engraved

with Egyptian images.

 

The idea being if you were buried with gold then you went to heaven - a la the philosopher's stone....

 

As for the actual training - it would be the book "Taoist Yoga: alchemy and Immortality" which gives the best details.

 

The alchemical "pill" or stone has been described as hard qi - like a rock in the lower tan tien when it is crystallized.

 

The Ch'an book Bones of My Master - George Crane has the Ch'an master describing it as a crystallized combination of jing-qi-shen - blood and qi and light -

 

And similarly the bones of the Buddhist masters - after cremation - are said to have these same crystals as stones that withstand cremation....

 

From science we can say this would be the result of sonofusion - as bigu is hypothesized to be from gamma radiation creating new matter - and similarly sonofusion appears to create a new type of fused matter that contains all the elements.

 

The original qigong master said he knows of qigong masters in the mountains in China meditation to create the yang shen bodies and they have the golden aura of immortality.... And so we know this golden aura is the yuan qi building up in the lower tan tien fusing with the yuan shen.

 

Peter Kingsley's latest book "A Story Waiting to Pierce You" traces Pythagorean alchemy to Asian shamanic tradition which in turn originates out of the Bushmen original human trance dance culture.

 

In Africa - rocks have a long tradition of shamanic power.

 

I'm remembering a book by Lyall Watson about a white man who went to Africa where he was initiated as a shaman due to his epilepsy and he was taught the secret of rocks. "Lightning Bird" 1981.

 

alchemy originates out of Ethiopia and then spread into Egypt - alchemy originates from the original Bushmen culture.

 

Originally it was wrong to "hoard the N/om" as the power was used to heal the females.

 

Sometimes males would go off alone and hoard the n/om and thereby built up their yang shen bodies as alchemy - and everyone else was afraid of these alchemists as they can manifest in lions, etc.

 

essentially this power is to be like a stone - the rainbow body is created but even then taken deeper as a black hole spacetime transformation into a white hole.

 

For the Egyptians the pyramid power is based on the limestone encasing the granite for a yin-yang energy dynamic or as Philip Callahan discovered - diamagnetic attracting paramagnetic energy - thereby enabling the pharaoh to mimic the rebirth of the sun - as a golden immortal body.

 

yuan shen and yuan qi fused is considered the original golden immortal yang shen body that pulverizes the physical body and then returns to its formless origin. This formless yuan qi origin can survive nuclear explosions even - or supernovas.

 

So it is something like a graviton or a time-frequency resonance as a black hole turning into a white hole most probably via gamma radiation.

 

As the book of Thomas quotes Jesus - look under a rock and you will find me.

 

 

Gospel of Thomas saying 77b. Jesus said: "Split wood, I am there. Lift up a rock, you will find me there."

 

The imperial Roman Church denounces the book as a "fake" - well maybe the church is the fake.

 

I read Peter Marshall's book "The PHilospher's Stone" but that is more an overview of the various alchemical traditions rather than a real practice book like Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.

 

http://www.whenthenewsstops.org/2013/04/the-philosophers-stone-a-quest-for.html

 

The "elixir of life" is another term for the philosopher's stone.

 

 

The elixir of life, also known as elixir of immortality and sometimes equated with the philosopher's stone,....have drunk "the white drops" (liquid gold) and thus achieved immortality,

 

From this we can infer that the philosopher's stone is the replenishing of Yuan Jing - after the cerebrospinal fluid is enfused with the Yuan Qi emanating out of the pineal gland and the Yuan Shen in the front of the brain (usually emanating out of the eyes) then this ambrosia flows out of the roof of the mouth (via the closing of the upper magpie bridge) as the ambrosia which is swallowed. The lower tan tien then absorbs the energy from the back wall of the stomach - and thereby creates the philsopher's stone.

 

There have been various claims of "monoatomic gold" recently - but in reality this is just a macroquantum fusion process.

 

The Siddhas of southern India are more likely to provide us with better clues about the Amrita or ambrosia.

 

My guess is it relies on lecithin - as this is how electrical eels hold their charge - and lecithin is the primary ingredient of reproductive fluid along with the primary ingredient of the brain and spinal cord....

 

While there is a possible "external path" as given example in Wang Liping's "Opening the Dragon Gate" - and the original qigong master shared how he too took a strong medicine which was life-threatening but after he survived it, his qi channels were cleared out and so he was able to better see the Yuan Shen in his lower tan tien all the time. This is how the Yuan Qi is build up - by the laser resonance of the Yuan Shen fusing with its formless source.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=ges6XgLkffEC&pg=PA215&lpg=PA215&dq=india+dravidian+alchemy&source=bl&ots=RodN1yuj7b&sig=P6wIkMHOvqqqhuVIzMPbSAaB3Ek&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCk7GRmfbJAhXJHh4KHUN2AqAQ6AEILDAD#v=onepage&q=india%20dravidian%20alchemy&f=false

 

Recipies for Immortality - an academic book on south Indian alchemy may provide us more clues.

 

lots there on siddha medicine.

 

The Elixir of Immortality: A Modern-Day Alchemist’s Discovery of the Philosopher’s Stone

https://books.google.com/books?id=0wJMiyEpODQC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=robert+e.+cox+soma+moon&source=bl&ots=PMTrHM2T3V&sig=wkHtbzl4IHVM56yUTRR1IFIIW_M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi1rOe1pfbJAhXGFj4KHYBNCZUQ6AEIIDAB#v=onepage&q=robert%20e.%20cox%20soma%20moon&f=false

 

so this vedic expert confirms that indeed Soma is the lunar cerebrospinal fluid as amrita - for immortality.

 

 

"In Sanskrit, the term soma means both 'moon' and the imperishable, flowing essence of pure consciousness that serves as the amrita rasa or immortal blood of the Supreme Being." Robert E. Cox, Creating the Soul Body: The Sacred Science of Immortality (2008).

Edited December 25, 2015 by conspirachi

[Zhongyongdaoist]

What about the word "stone"

 

Does it correlate to any energetic phenomenon?

 

Unfortunately, yes and no.

 

The problem is that "philosopsher's stone" is in a sense an outsider's term, not an insider's term.  Inside alchemy there is a rich technical language which alchemists used to describe complex processes and which different schools used in somewhat different ways, so that in one text from one school it refers to the beginning of the operation and in others the middle and the context and the words around it determines what exactly is being talked about.  Interestingly it almost never refers to the end of the operation.

 

In some schools it could mean "energetic phenomenon" in the sense in which you probably mean "energetic phenomenon" and in others, no, it is not.  It is "overdetermined", in other words there are too many possible things that it could mean for any single definition to be given.

 

Also there are problems with the very notion of "energetic phenomenon", again a very informal phrase in which a term "energy" is standing in for traditional terms like spirit, pneuma, qi, shen, "philosophic mercury", etc., so that your whole inquiry as framed can go off into so many different directions as to, as I said before, require many long posts just to get an understanding of the basic terminology, and I don't have time for that.

 

Oh, also people tend to bring into the discussion a "model" of reality that is nothing like that which the alchemists, or for that matter any traditional culture had, and judge anything from that perspective without ever making that perspective explicit in the discussion.  It is a sure recipe for miscommunication and wasted time, and  I have even less time for that.

 

You can see in some of the replies how different the interpretation can be, some of what has been said is relevant and some isn't.  Good luck in finding out which.

[MooNiNite]

I believe there is a simple explanation for the philosopher's stone. We just don't know it. 

 

Just like there is a simple energetic explanation for the Holy Grail, or the Fountain of Youth, and the Alchemic idea of turning base metals into gold.

 

The closest explanations so far have been that it correlates to the "golden pill" in Daoist alchemy or that it correlates to the phenomenon of hardened energy in the LTD. 

 

However, both of those comparisons are still too far out there for my liking. 

[Apech]

Stone.  ST-ONE ... spirit, self-posited as unity.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by Apech

[Jeff]

I believe there is a simple explanation for the philosopher's stone. We just don't know it. 

 

Just like there is a simple energetic explanation for the Holy Grail, or the Fountain of Youth, and the Alchemic idea of turning base metals into gold.

 

The closest explanations so far have been that it correlates to the "golden pill" in Daoist alchemy or that it correlates to the phenomenon of hardened energy in the LTD. 

 

However, both of those comparisons are still too far out there for my liking. 

 

Is the key finding (or building) the stone, or being able to let it go and give it away? From the Lotus sutra...

 

Now the daughter of Sâgara, the Nâga-king, had at the time a gem which in value outweighed the whole universe. That gem the daughter of Sâgara, the Naga-king, presented to the Lord, and the Lord graciously accepted it. Then the daughter of Sâgara, the Nâga-king, said to the Bodhisattva Pragñâkûta and the senior priest Sariputra: Has the Lord readily accepted the gem I presented him or has he not? The senior priest answered: As soon as it was presented by thee, so soon it was accepted by the Lord. The daughter of Sâgara, the Nâga-king, replied: If I were endowed with magic power, brother Sariputra, I should sooner have arrived at supreme, perfect enlightenment, and there would have been none to receive this gem.

 

At the same instant, before the sight of the whole world and of the senior priest Sariputra, the female sex of the daughter of Sâgara, the Naga-king, disappeared; the male sex appeared and she manifested herself as a Bodhisattva, who immediately went to the South to sit down at the foot of a tree made of seven precious substances, in the world Vimala (i.e. spotless), where he showed himself enlightened and preaching the law, while filling all directions of space with the radiance of the thirtytwo characteristic signs and all secondary marks. All beings in the Saha-world beheld that Lord while he received the homage of all, gods, Nâgas, goblins, Gandharvas, demons, Garudas, Kinnaras, great serpents, men, and beings not human, and was engaged in preaching the law. And the beings who heard the preaching of that Tathâgata became incapable of sliding back in supreme, perfect enlightenment. And that world Vimala and this Saha-world shook in six different ways. Three thousand living beings from the congregational circle of the Lord Sâkyamuni gained the acquiescence in the eternal law, whereas three hundred thousand beings obtained the prediction of their future destiny to supreme, perfect enlightenment.

[Nungali]

I believe there is a simple explanation for the philosopher's stone. We just don't know it. 

 

Just like there is a simple energetic explanation for the Holy Grail, or the Fountain of Youth, and the Alchemic idea of turning base metals into gold.

 

The closest explanations so far have been that it correlates to the "golden pill" in Daoist alchemy or that it correlates to the phenomenon of hardened energy in the LTD. 

 

However, both of those comparisons are still too far out there for my liking. 

 

 

try this then 

 

 

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=wDo5AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA563&lpg=PA563&dq=I+did+find+a+stone+in+the+head+of+a+toad&source=bl&ots=Wfz2NiET9c&sig=u4hnzHv8wseTnIykgBwrWbzDYxw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwje_6z68PfJAhUIMaYKHWrTB0QQ6AEINTAF#v=onepage&q=I%20did%20find%20a%20stone%20in%20the%20head%20of%20a%20toad&f=false

[SonOfTheGods]

Philosopher StoneS

[Marblehead]

Well, I think having a philosopher's stone is better than having a kidney stone.

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Michael Sternbach]

Well, I think having a philosopher's stone is better than having a kidney stone.

 

Your head could be considered a philosopher's stone.

[Marblehead]

Your head could be considered a philosopher's stone.

That is a very nice comment compared to some I have been offered.

[MooNiNite]

Stone.  ST-ONE ... spirit, self-posited as unity.

 

 

 

Uroboros is often talked about in the same books that refer to the Philosopher's Stone, so maybe you are onto something. 

[MooNiNite]

Philosopher StoneS

 

Agreed.

 

The philosopher is the stone. 

 

and he solidifies, into his true self.

 

A true self that helps others realize the gold in themselves. 

[JinlianPai]

Stone.  ST-ONE ... spirit, self-posited as unity.

 

 

 

Ending off where u start is center or Zhong. Center is represented by earth. A stone is earth and thus has golden earth energy.

[Michael Sternbach]

Ending off where u start is center or Zhong. Center is represented by earth. A stone is earth and thus has golden earth energy.

 

This is the Emerald Tablet. It is widely considered to be the most important text of Western Alchemy. At one of its multiple levels, it's all about the manufacture of the Philosopher's Stone. (Isaac Newton's translation, emphasis my own.)

 

1. Tis true without error, certain & most true.
2. That which is below is like that which is above & that which is above is like that which is below to do the miracles of one only thing.
3. And as all things have been & arose from one by the meditation of one: so all things have their birth from this one thing by adaptation.
4. The Sun is its father, the moon its mother, the wind hath carried it in its belly, the earth is its nurse.
5. The father of all perfection in the whole world is here.
6. Its force or power is entire if it be converted into earth.
7. Separate thou the earth from the fire, the subtle from the gross sweetly with great industry.
8. It ascends from the earth to the heaven & again it descends to the earth & receives the force of things superior & inferior.
9. By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world
10. & thereby all obscurity shall fly from you.
11. Its force is above all force. For it vanquishes every subtle thing & penetrates every solid thing.
12. So was the world created.
13. From this are & do come admirable adaptations whereof the means (or process) is here in this. Hence I am called Hermes Trismegist, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world
14. That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished & ended.

[Nungali]

The Natural State is the Philosopher's Stone.

 

 

A natural stone is the philosopher's state