Now that the lie of Christ Mass is over

[Nungali]

.... thank you for calling emergency services , you have been placed in a queue and the first available operator will attend to you as soon as possible ....   

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Nungali

[3bob]

life can turn on a dime in a New York minute, but the pivotal scope and speed of Jesus can be much greater than those!

[Nungali]

[Marblehead]

That's almost the speed of light.

[Nungali]

E= M x Jesus ²

[3bob]

actually the speed of light is very slow when it comes to the crossing the ocean of  light at Godspeed.

Edited January 1, 2016 by 3bob

[Nungali]

The fastest speed is that of the imagination. 

[Marblehead]

The fastest speed is that of the imagination. 

That's in one of Chuang Tzu's stories although he doesn't say that directly.

[Nungali]

a question can slow down the speed of the imagination. 
 
(Telling a bedtime story to friends little boy )   " ... Well, we could imagine we are on the Moon, you would look up and see the big blue and white Earth in the black sky and ... "
 
" How would we get there ?"
 
"In a rocket ship ... and when we landed .... "
 
"How do we get on a rocket ship "
 
"Well, we dont have one here, so we would have to go to maybe America, to blast off and  ..."
 
"How would we get to America ?"
 
'We could fly, or even go by boat  or ... "
 
" I want to go by boat !    Would we see dolphins on the way ... " 
 
" Probably ."
 
"Could we stop at an island and pick coconuts and see a monkey ?"
 
"Yes ... we could do that  " 
 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Nungali

[Netero]

As in all religions, there are two sides of the coin; exoteric and esoteric.

 

The Neoplatonic philosopher Sallustius expressed this differently, in mentioning the five different ways to read a myth - the theological, the physical, the psychical, the material and the mixed. The theological concerns itself with metaphysical principles, the physical with natural laws, the psychical with the soul, and the material with concrete substances, such as historic events.

 

Jung's and Campbell's methods falls under the psychical, in that they apply the myths on a psychological basis, while many egyptologists, for example, utilize the physical method, in portraying the ancients as enthusiastic farmers that couldn't comprehend the ways of nature properly and scientifically. And the material interpretation is more or less how you're interpreting these myths, seeing God as the catalyst of historical genocide.

 

A theological interpretation is an esoteric interpretation. The higher principles, irregardless of tradition, has always been expressed symbolically, because such writing pertains to our imagination and intuition, and not reason, with the former being more receptive in it's scope than the latter.

 

The waters of Genesis, for example, aren't literal waters. Water here is used in its symbolic quality of darkness and inertia - in other words, God in his transcendent aspect of non-being, which would equal to the Dao, Brahman and Nun.

 

I'm not in the mood for a long-winded post, so I'll refer to Sri Yukteswar's "The Holy Science", for a theological interpretation of the Bible in accordance to Vedantic philosophy. Here's a link to his interpretation of Adam and Eve; http://www.vedarahasya.net/genesis.htm

 

It's easy enough to brush the absuridity off as the writings of delusional madmen, but leave that pleasure to the atheists. The Bible is a beautiful scripture for those with the eyes to see - and these are not the superficial lenses of blind fundamentalists or arrogant scientists. It would certainly do no harm to have a little humbleness and respect towards a fellow mystic tradition.

[Nungali]

a double thank you ....   one of the best posts I have read in some time    (but then again, I am a bit of a mythophile )

 

   ...  or I should have gone ;

 

 

 

[Nungali]

Is that  Sallustius  of Emesa (son of Basilides)  - " He seems at least to have been unsparing in his attacks upon the theology of the Neoplatonists." - Wiki 

 

Flavius Sallustius  (Spanish ) - "who synthesized Platonismwith Pythagoreanism and theurgy," - wiki and/ or Saturnius Secendus Salutius  ( a gaul)  ???  

 

I looked him up and got confused ... I guess its the 2nd one ? 

 

Do you have a ref for what you refered to re the 5 different ways to read a myth ?  I want to read it. 

 

( I try to find 7 ... that comes from a Sufi exercise to 'see'  (read it) things in 7 different ways ) 

 

One recent thing I discovered, that may relate to your 'mixed'  ( a mix of  material - practical, spiritual theological and psychical  * )  reading or view point , that I find very interesting is scientists are now working with the indigenous ( in NW Sth America, in the doco I saw)  to target sacred sites and their mythology, as they have seen that certain localities are essential to be left undisturbed for the long term survival of the related site species. The myths tell how they are to be treated, and at what times and how they interact with all the other sites and animals. 

 

*  The 'mixed' view  and the 'range of views'  ( 5 , 7, or 10  )  is also interesting .  I have talked about this in depth with a friend who is an Australian Aboriginal, a 'strong culture man', elder and site guardian .  He seems impressed  with me, that I can understand it in this way, on many levels, but he says you cant separate them like this, they are all one, all the meanings, the animals the land the psychical energies  and anything   that is   ' true good'  has to be able to do the same .  (Its a type of non-dualist consciousness ....  they dont see much distinction between 'heaven' and earth  nor life and afterlife ). 

 

The closest I can seem to get to it is each myth (here ) with all its relevance to seasonal hunting, tribal lore, psychical development, individuation, etc  all tied in together is like one piece of a jigsaw puzzle. Then if I could know and put all the 'dreamings' for each place in Australia together, as bits of a jigsaw, I would be able to see the whole picture, and how everything connects ....  ( and know what I have to do about it      )    ...  but he says, no, just see the picture       - but I have western mind. 

 

That's why , for me (and a lot of others with a ' modern western mindset'  the Greek and Roman  pagan myths are so relevant  ) . The ones here are ancient and connect between people / place ( 'country') .... that part of it cant be left out.  But still, there are some identifiable crossovers .... like the failed journey of individuation in the Hercules myth, shows the inversion of what a shaman would do during his successful initiation into the 'other world'  , 'dreamtime' / etc . 

Edited January 2, 2016 by Nungali

[Netero]

.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Netero

[Marblehead]

a question can slow down the speed of the imagination. 

 

(Telling a bedtime story to friends little boy )   " ... Well, we could imagine we are on the Moon, you would look up and see the big blue and white Earth in the black sky and ... "

 

 

On the other hand, the boy was living much more in the present than where you were wanting to take him.

[Marblehead]

It's easy enough to brush the absuridity off as the writings of delusional madmen, but leave that pleasure to the atheists.

Yeah, we do a pretty good job at that.

[Nungali]

It's Flavius Sallustius - the five modes of interpretation comes from his treatise "On the Gods and the World", chapter IV. http://hermetic.com/texts/on_the_gods-1.html

 

Great ! Thanks.

 

 

 

 

That's a very interesting excercise... The number 7 does represent Venus, and what little I have read of Sufic litterature, they certainly strike me as being worshippers of Allah in his Venusian aspect; i.e song, dance, harmony, beauty, love.

 

One way  of nutting it is to equate each way of  viewing ( or meditating on )  with a planetary energy.

 

 

 

 

In regards to the jigsaw puzzle, I think the Neoplatonic concept of Seira might be helpful. In short, it means that everything is full of gods - the gods being the spiritual archetypes who project their powers, manifesting the energetic realm, which in turn is the blueprint for our material realm, meaning that everything on Earth has a link to Heaven. 

 

Yes, except here it is a bit different , a 'god 'can be quite different from what we are used to.  'God' as such , like we might relate to, is a sort of 'tribal' ancestor hero .  One meeting of unknown people I observed went like this ;

 

What's you name ?  -     ......... 

 

Who is your God ?  -  Biame .

 

What is your totem ?  - Guran , possom. 

 

Where is your place ?  -  Tjabulum 

 

Ohh, you got bingie there !  ( turtle to eat ) 

 

But the 'Gods'  'that everything is full of' are referred to as 'spiritual beings'  and can be quite strange  , like 'hopping man'  ; he throws his bad leg over his shoulder and hops after you, you cant run away, he will catch you.   Or the highly aggressive and deadly KIng Brown snake . . . or any animal ... or .... 

..... 

 

The 'chief spirit' (but not really a God) would be  Ungud, a giant snake asleep underground in the centre of Australia, in the Great Artesian Basin , his energy (in the form of smaller snakes and water) goes out underground and makes the 'spiritual archetypes', manifesting the 'energetic realm' ( projected onto rocks as paintings, or in the land form itself)  and then out of those paintings or landforms (increase sites) into the forms of the material world. 

 

It doesnt need a direct link to 'heaven' as such ... but that water the snake is dreaming in came from heaven; spat down onto the earth by the sky snake ( dark 'river' / part in Milky Way ) .

 

But many things link to the heavens in a different way too , often to do with seasonal hunting and animal species fertility

 

Sometimes they are directly linked 

 

 

 

 

other times it is a story that starts on earth, then ends up in the sky and the story 'freeze frames' and we are told 'and there they are up there ' and a star pattern is pointed out .   This seems very similar to some myths, where for example,  Apollo, in anger at Raven (Corvus) being delayed in returning with a drink to the banquet of the gods with the cup ( Crater ) and some BS story about being delayed by a 'water monster' (Hydra)  are flung, in anger, up into the heavens, where they remain together 

 

 

 

 

 

In Egypt, for example, the two lands of Upper and Lower Egypt represented Earth and Heaven, being ruled by Seth and Horus, respectively. In Greece and India, too, the gods have epithets as rulers of a particular city. I think the reason for this is two-fold; on the hand, the landscape, with it's minerals, plants, and animals participates in the essence of a god, while on the other, the landscape is imbued with the energy of a god radiating from a Sage or a group of adepts.

 

 

Here, the sage or group would be imbued with an energy radiating from their country ( 'natal  landscape')  .

 

[ I have often wondered  if the Egyptian Nomes had an origin in 'totemic sites' and symbols ?  ]

 

again, thanks for that link  

[Nungali]

On the other hand, the boy was living much more in the present than where you were wanting to take him.

 

 

and very much realising my ploy and delaying it .  The Moon story is a soporific  .... and my voice gets    s l o w e r    and more  

d r e a m y  ....   

 

But he wasnt going down without his mum there (first time  he had experienced an all night minding ) .   That boat eventually arrived and we got a train, a bus, stayed at a motel, got debriefed and trained by NASA , blasted off, went to the Moon, looked around, came back, splashed down, got picked up, debriefed, bus and train, caught the boat back, train home from the port , unpacked , decided we were tired out and went to bed ..

 

then he went to sleep ...  I swear , that kid kept me going for near 2 1/2 hours .... dont know how I managed to stay awake !  

[KenBrace]

This  God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.  I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along.

It always amazes me how many times this  God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill. For example,  God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).

God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there.  He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3).  He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6).  In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!

Just about every other page in the Old Testament has  God killing somebody!

 

Well you see, you are using your reasoning skills.

 

When people are emotionally envolved in a religion, they tend to abandon critical thinking.

 

And now comes the new religion of "science".

 

Sorry, but science isn't a religion.

 

Yeah, well.

I am more concerned about the fact that on Christmas I have to endure for one afternoon the presence of the daughter of my cousin, the most irritating and most narcissistic little girl the human race could possibly generate.

As I am the only person she doesn't get any narcissistic supply of, she behaves especially nerve-racking near me,

throwing the gift wrapping paper of her endless pile of Christmas presents at me etc.

So I used the afternoon for visualization practice,

inventing great new ideas Caligula would have been proud of!

Thank god its over (for this year).

 

LOL! I know a little girl just like that. Can't stand being around her. It drives me nuts how people continuously cater to her annoyingly selfish, demanding, and narcissistic personality.

Edited January 3, 2016 by KenBrace

[Nungali]

LOL! I know a little girl just like that. Can't stand being around her. It drives me nuts how people continuously cater to her annoyingly selfish, demanding, and narcissistic personality.

 

Have you ever read the story of Salvador Dali's childhood ?     Talk about people continuously catering to a kids annoyingly selfish, demanding, and narcissistic personality !