Astral Monk Posted December 29, 2015 Lets remember that Muslim, Christian, and Jew are NOT races, but categories of belief systems. Being anti-Islam is not racism. Its on par with being anti-communist. There is no communist race, for example. People, esp the MSM, seem to continually conflate this, esp regarding Jews. 8) 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 29, 2015 There is only one race of humans. We ate all the Neanderthal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) A direct, unavoidable and unsurprising consequence of establishing government as God. A direct, unavoidable and unsurprising consequence of appealing to any authority. (she was objecting to halloween costumes if you didn't realise) Edited December 29, 2015 by Apech Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted December 29, 2015 A direct, unavoidable and unsurprising consequence of appealing to any authority. (she was objecting to halloween costumes if you didn't realise) I wouldn't have bothered to post if I weren't familiar with her grievances, the desired redress, the contributing factors, the historical back-story, the significant influencers, etc. <shrug> I post very rarely these days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 29, 2015 I wouldn't have bothered to post if I weren't familiar with her grievances, the desired redress, the contributing factors, the historical back-story, the significant influencers, etc. <shrug> I post very rarely these days. I was just trying to make the point that I think authority and the desire to appeal to authority is the underlying problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted December 30, 2015 man's time on this planet is limited, then she will have it back to herself Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seeker of Wisdom Posted December 31, 2015 I used to think that Islam is an inherently violent religion, because the Qur'an is an inherently violent text. Now my view is somewhere between 'Islam is a religion of peace' and 'Islam is a religion of the sword'. First, let's get some things straight: this has nothing whatsoever to do with race, and pointing out issues with Islam and issues in Muslim communities is not the same as hating Muslims. And most Muslims are decent people. It is very easy to read the Qur'an and conclude that it calls for violence. There are so many verses that do exactly that. It's clear to me that Saudi Arabia's interpretation of the Qur'an isn't without scriptural support. However, it is also possible to read it and conclude that it calls for peace except in very specific circumstances, and then with strong rules about treating prisoners properly and the like. Both sides have scholars and scripture behind their interpretation. Therefore, to say that one side aren't 'real Muslims' is just a no true Scotsman argument. Both sides consider the Qur'an the word of Allah via prophet Muhammad. Both may follow the five pillars. This makes them both Muslims. It's just that one side fits in modern society and are nice people, and one side doesn't and aren't. There are peaceful Muslims and violet Muslims. Islam is a body of text and ideas from which both draw different strands. Saying that the violent ones can't be 'real Muslims' because 'Islam is a religion of peace' holds back the project of advancing a peaceful interpretation of Islam suitable for the modern world, IMHO. It makes it difficult to address issues with homophobia and misogyny and the like in the Muslim world, because then you can be accused of being Islamaphobic. Maajid Nawaz considers this 'racism of low expectations'. If it's Islamaphobic to point out high rates of homophobia among Muslims, for example, how is the issue to be dealt with? And doesn't this imply that Muslims are somehow incapable of improving, and can't be expected to meet the rest of society's moral standards? ISIS and their ilk didn't spring up solely because of all the crap going on in the middle East. There was an underlying potential for it because those violent verses are prevalent in the Qur'an. The challenge is to argue convincingly to people leaning towards extremism that a peaceful interpretation is superior to a violent one. This will take a more sophisticated debate than 'Islam is peaceful, mkay?' There are horrific things in the Bible too. Things which led towards the Crusades and witch burning and the Spanish Inquisition. Not so long ago, people argued against the abolition of slavery by quoting the Bible! Now there are still Christian terrorists... but nothing on a scale like ISIS. Why is that? How did a peaceful interpretation become so overwhelmingly more popular? Why do some Christians think gays are an abomination, while others ignore that part of the Bible entirely? I think that's a major key to all this. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted December 31, 2015 At last, a post in this thread that I can "Like". Wasn't expecting that...! You (Seeker of Wisdom) may find even more wisdom here: - http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 31, 2015 An elevated dialogue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted December 31, 2015 Watch this three-part series on an indian tv channel (includes some internal indian political commentary as well -- but the key guy to watch is Tarek Fatah) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHdjXaVxHfA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoAe7lOJff4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVvZLD8E9JM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted December 31, 2015 Ah yes. Indian politics http://www.ibtimes.com/hindu-nationalists-historical-links-nazism-fascism-214222 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted December 31, 2015 Ah yes. Indian politics http://www.ibtimes.com/hindu-nationalists-historical-links-nazism-fascism-214222 Btw these panelists were not from any Hindu nationalist party. It seems your tendency to overreact has not diminished over time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted December 31, 2015 Btw these panelists were not from any Hindu nationalist party. It seems your tendency to overreact has not diminished over time It was, in fact, not a reaction but a provocation (i.e. you got trolled). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted January 4, 2016 It was, in fact, not a reaction but a provocation (i.e. you got trolled). Isn't that a violation of the TDB code of conduct? Oh Moderators...this is a self-confessed case of trolling here...what is the punishment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Isn't that a violation of the TDB code of conduct? Oh Moderators...this is a self-confessed case of trolling here...what is the punishment? A 3-day suspension is usual for such an infraction, so I suspended myself for 3 days after posting that... Entirely happy to walk away for a lot longer though... Edited January 4, 2016 by gatito 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted January 4, 2016 How are they creating terrorists? By being critical of Islam? Having your religion criticized causes otherwise normal people to turn to terrorist groups for support? Is that really your perspective, or if he creating them another way? Here's an example that I was waiting to hear about... Somalia's al-Shabaab militants use Donald Trump in recruiting film: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/02/somalis-al-shabaab-militants-use-donald-trump-in-recruiting-film www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/02/somalis-al-shabaab-militants-use-donald-trump-in-recruiting-film Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted January 4, 2016 Gatito,Coincidentally, I recently spoke with an Arab immigrant friend, a non-Muslim, who has been experiencing some pretty bad racism against her. I can see how it was making her feel very isolated in America, and where it could potentially get to the point of causing a person to despise all Americans (if she had a tendency toward broad generalization of people, and didn't have any redeeming friends to bring relief) and think of them as less than human. In light of that, I could see how a person might be tempted to join a group that is opposed to Americans, which also happens to be part of their previous cultural identity which they might easily relate to.Still...that's an indirect cause, and not a direct one. The direct cause is a person choosing to become murderous based on an ideology. People isolating them simply contributes to that decision...other people who are isolated/discriminated don't make the same decision. There is personal responsibility for our actions, and everyone has free will to make their own decisions. Speaking out against Islamism (which is not a race) should not be enough to create a terrorist. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gatito Posted January 4, 2016 "Hillary Clinton will not be apologizing to Donald Trump for correctly pointing out how his hateful rhetoric only helps ISIS recruit more terrorists," Clinton spokesman Brian Fallon said Monday afternoon. Keota, Iowa (CNN)Hillary Clinton on Tuesday stood by her claim that ISIS uses videos of Donald Trump to recruit terrorists, but offered more explanation than she did when she first made the comment over the weekend at the Democratic debate. On Saturday, Clinton claimed that ISIS is "going to people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists." The claim was roundly panned, with fact checks labeling it false and Republicans knocking her for lying. But Clinton didn't back away from the claim at a town hall event here, explain instead that videos of Trump are regularly played on Arabic television. "You know, people around the world pay close attention to our elections. And if you go on Arabic television, as we have, and you look at what is being blasted out with video of Mr. Trump being translated into Arabic, 'No Muslims coming into the United States,' other kinds of derogatory, defamatory statements, it is playing into the hands of the violent jihadists," she said. "There is nothing they want more than to be able to claim that the United States is against Islam and against Muslims and that then lights an even bigger fire for them to make their propaganda claims through social media and other ways." As she regularly does, Clinton added that Trump's rhetoric -- particularly his call to ban Muslims from entering the United States -- "is not only dangerous, it is shameful." "It is not the kind of language someone running for president of the United States should be using," Clinton said to applause. "It has consequences. It has real consequences." After the comment was panned, Trump told NBC's "Today" show that he wanted an apology. "I will demand an apology from Hillary," Trump said. "I will demand an apology from Hillary. She should apologize. She lies about emails, she lies about Whitewater, she lies about everything." Trump will likely be waiting awhile for that apology. "Hell no. Hillary Clinton will not be apologizing to Donald Trump for correctly pointing out how his hateful rhetoric only helps ISIS recruit more terrorists," Clinton spokesman Brian Fallon said Monday afternoon. http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/22/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-isis-recruiting/ edition.cnn.com/2015/12/22/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-isis-recruiting/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted January 6, 2016 Personal responsibility exists, I completely agree. Assaulting German women New Year's Eve is not acceptable. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/germany-crisis-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-attacks "Scores of women say they were sexually assaulted and mugged by groups of men largely of Arab and north African appearance" About 1000 men in groups coordinated attacks on women. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 6, 2016 Personal responsibility exists, I completely agree. Assaulting German women New Year's Eve is not acceptable. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/05/germany-crisis-cologne-new-years-eve-sex-attacks "Scores of women say they were sexually assaulted and mugged by groups of men largely of Arab and north African appearance" About 1000 men in groups coordinated attacks on women. From that article: Officers are working on the assumption that the men had organised their plan of attack. They said many of the perpetrators were known to them and some may have been asylum seekers, though not new arrivals to Germany. ... so the way this has been linked to the refugee crisis and the recent influx into Germany is disingenuous. By the way - if an asylum seeker is found guilty of this through the due process of law I think they should be deported. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted January 6, 2016 From that article: ... so the way this has been linked to the refugee crisis and the recent influx into Germany is disingenuous. By the way - if an asylum seeker is found guilty of this through the due process of law I think they should be deported. The link to the current influx was made by you. The treatment of women in that incident is in line with what you see if the worst Islamic countries, Iraq, Iran, Northern Africa. No women are not your property you can just touch as you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted January 6, 2016 The link to the current influx was made by you. The treatment of women in that incident is in line with what you see if the worst Islamic countries, Iraq, Iran, Northern Africa. No women are not your property you can just touch as you want. No it was made by the newspapers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted January 6, 2016 No it was made by the newspapers. Sorry then I misunderstood you. Hijacking of events happen to fit a certain agenda. Hard to be neutral. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted January 7, 2016 No it was made by the newspapers. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046 "A policeman who was outside Cologne station during the New Year's Eve trouble told the city's Express news website that he had detained eight suspects. "They were all asylum seekers, carrying copies of their residence certificates," he said. " So maybe the Gurdian journalists "forgot" - also known as self-censorship. The thing is I had VISIONS in my dreams of this more than 1 year ago. I had no idea of what I saw only sensed a civil war between foreigners and natives of Europe. People setting fire on things etc. Politically correct people will never understand. Denial is strong. Poltically correct people don't see patterns and make up a map of the world. They deny events and the darkness in order to feel good. This is the basis. I don't care s*it about karma or any concepts anymore. The patterns in the world now say a breakup of Schengen, EU and the UN asylum treaties will come. This is the Tao speaking, it doesn't care about what people feel and think. This is just the manifestation of things. You have to understand when politicians systematically are not listening to its people, persons like Hitler will arise. Right wing Europe is just starting. More people will wake up while a big group will be even dumber and go the other way. Observation, not teachings say this. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2012 Posted January 7, 2016 From Danish media http://m.b.dk/globalt/magtesloest-politi-frygtede-doedsfald-under-sexovergreb-i-koeln At least one refugee from Syria was involved and mocked the police. Wonder what the political correct people will say now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
