What do you do when all men doubt you?

[CrunchyChocolate555]

What do you do if you fail at your career, lose all your friends, and lose all your money?

 

What if everything in your environment reflects your constant failures to thrive in this material world, this competitive rat-race?

 

How do you regain your sense of confidence, charisma and enthusiasm in the face of such adversity? 

 

How does one find solace in one's essence beyond this material world when having a "healthy ego" is so determined by how well one performs in our societal and cultural hierarchy?

 

Well, you don't have a choice, right?  So you get back into the game, try once again, but then how can you start all over fresh and clean, without any trace of previous defeats haunting your every word and action?

 

I mean, it's all well and good to be a lone wolf and do your own thing, but if you can never fit in and succeed into the mold of this world, especially financially, how do you not start resenting that world and all the people that live in it?

 

I am at a point where I am finding it very difficult to love and respect the people who have what I don't. I try so hard to like them, but I cannot find any reason to, other than that is "the right thing to do".  Should I forgive them, or forgive myself?   All those people who rejected my good intentions, and the friends that were never there for me compound my sense of self-rejection.  How do I just let it go?   I feel like part of me would feel like a pushover or a wimp for even giving anyone a second chance.  Of course, it's not -everyone-, but it sure feels like it in my heart.

 

How can I detach myself so much that I have no ego left to get hurt while still succeeding in the material world?

Edited December 28, 2015 by CrunchyChocolate555

[ralis]

My first question to you is how old are you? Why not be yourself as opposed to wanting to keep up with everyone else who in your mind are better than you?

[liminal_luke]

As spiritual people, we sometimes make things more complicated than they need to be. It´s easy to get lost philosophizing about the evils of "ego" and such. All that thinking has it´s place, but when you feel bad usually the solution is much simpler. Here is my list of generally helpful things to do.

 

(1) Clean your living space. Get rid of lots of stuff you haven´t used in the last 3 months.

 

(2) Work up a sweat. Martial arts, jogging, weight lifting, hiking up a big hill. Whatever

 

(3) Call someone you like and have a good conversation.

 

(4) Think: is everybody giving me more or less the same advice? If so, take it.

 

(5) Do something that makes you laugh.

 

(6) Spend time in nature.

 

(7) If you need money, get a job. If you can´t get a job you like, get a job you don´t like and enjoy other parts of your life for now. If you don´t know how, figure out who you can ask for help.

 

(8) Eat nutritious food. Don´t eat junk.

 

That´s it. For the moment, don´t worry about ego and detachment and all that jazz. Don´t even worry if you feel angry or resentful or unforgiving. Just take care of yourself and see what happens.

Edited December 28, 2015 by liminal_luke

[Karl]

What do you do if you fail at your career, lose all your friends, and lose all your money?

 

What if everything in your environment reflects your constant failures to thrive in this material world, this competitive rat-race?

 

How do you regain your sense of confidence, charisma and enthusiasm in the face of such adversity? 

 

How does one find solace in one's essence beyond this material world when having a "healthy ego" is so determined by how well one performs in our societal and cultural hierarchy?

 

Well, you don't have a choice, right?  So you get back into the game, try once again, but then how can you start all over fresh and clean, without any trace of previous defeats haunting your every word and action?

 

I mean, it's all well and good to be a lone wolf and do your own thing, but if you can never fit in and succeed into the mold of this world, especially financially, how do you not start resenting that world and all the people that live in it?

 

I am at a point where I am finding it very difficult to love and respect the people who have what I don't. I try so hard to like them, but I cannot find any reason to, other than that is "the right thing to do".  Should I forgive them, or forgive myself?   All those people who rejected my good intentions, and the friends that were never there for me compound my sense of self-rejection.  How do I just let it go?   I feel like part of me would feel like a pushover or a wimp for even giving anyone a second chance.  Of course, it's not -everyone-, but it sure feels like it in my heart.

 

How can I detach myself so much that I have no ego left to get hurt while still succeeding in the material world?

 

:-)

 

Get used to it. It is your ego that keeps you alive. Disappointment and failure are twin lessons. What keeps you from succeeding is a determined will not to. Move towards doing goals that accord with your values. If something doesn't feel right about the kind of job or career that you have embarked upon then, it probably does not accord with your values and thus reality. Be independent-not dependent on other men for your values. Be honest in your dealings, have integrity and let your actions prove it. Take pride in whatever you do.

[Aetherous]

How do you regain your sense of confidence, charisma and enthusiasm in the face of such adversity? 

 

Focus on what you want your life to be like. What is enjoyable and beautiful to you? What interests you? Surround yourself with that...do the work to make that happen. Make it your life's work and career, if possible. Pride in what you do is the greatest source of energy.

 

Hell is other people, but heaven is a good friend. How can we expect to get a good friend if we can't be a good friend to others...so the first step is to treat others well. How do we treat others well...what are the prerequisites which set us up for doing that?

 

You mentioned kind of despising others who are perhaps too lucky for their own good. The secret of having good will toward anyone and then treating them well, is finding something about them that's redeeming, and focusing primarily on that. Let go of other issues they might have, and see what's good. When you see a person as having redeeming qualities, then you feel like they're worthy of benefiting from you. If there are literally no redeeming qualities, in a pretty horrible person, then what Buddhists do is imagine that in the past life that person was the most loving and generous mother to you, who gave you everything she had an protected you at all cost to herself. Don't pretend, but consider the possibility of it having been true. Then for some reason, in this life they ended up in a bad karmic situation which led to this really poor attitude and demeanor. They are lost, but you know their true spirit. So you view them like that, to see them as having a redeeming quality...then that opens your love toward them. When that's open, then treating them well and like a good friend is pretty easy.

 

Also, being a good friend requires knowing what a bad friend is. People treating you poorly is how you refine yourself into treating people really well. If everyone was really nice to you, you'd have no idea how to be a good friend toward others.

 

The world needs more good friends, and it begins with you.

 

Furthermore...it's important to forget about what others think of you, to some extent. Live life how you think is most appropriate. Having strength in yourself is inspiring to others. It's not about not caring what others think, but it's about valuing what you think above the opinions of others.

 

Just some more ideas in addition to the good advice of what others here said.

[Apech]

Keep calm and carry on.

[Junko]

Save money,one doesn't always have to get a job. Work hard in your environment only.Do some sports or excersice to get some really nice sweat.That would bring money into your life,I believe.

[Kubba]

You don't have heart, so you will be treated badly by life untill you understand what need to be understood.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Kubba

[Junko]

You don't have heart, so you will be treated badly by life untill you understand what need to be understood.

What do you mean by this comments?Beside that,life is not how you think its working.Life never treat anyone badly.You only treat life badly.

[ebt111]

What do you do if you fail at your career, lose all your friends, and lose all your money?

 

That's too important of a question to ask in such an un-serious way.   You have to be a lot more specific.  Failed at doing what?  After how long?   Why did it fail?    Why did you initially expect not to fail?   What went wrong?

[CrunchyChocolate555]

Hi guys, thanks for all your comment. This issue has now been resolved for me, I think. I just made the decision to forgive myself and everyone. I did it for myself, but I did it. I feel like a feather now.

[JohnC]

The world is a reflection of you.

 

Examine yourself.

 

John

[johndoe2012]

You could work on heart related issues, and also give yourself more than you are used to.

 

There is love in the world when you give love.

[thelerner]

The Tao is a path.  You can fill it up with all the thoughts you want, positive, negative, self loathing.. whatever.  Thoughts don't mean much other then making you feel good or bad temporarily.

 

What matters is are you on path?  Are you heading somewhere?  Figure out where you want to go.  Often a pencil and some paper are your best tools.  Start easy and keep going.

 

Sometimes when life hands you lemons, its time to get a new life.  And that takes bravery, energy, planning and chutzpah.  But you can do it. 

[Rara]

If you don't want to chase the dragon, you don't have to. Resenting those that do is only because you feel pressured into living that style of life.

 

I'm still dealing with this conflict myself. There are some things that I feel I should be doing...but then I realise that I just don't wanna.

[Nikolai1]

I think a big insight is when you notice that even successful people are anxious and unhappy and that you have something they don't.

[ion]

I like to think so too Rara, and anyone but from my point of view in relating to the OP I am not envious of that life style, but more so oppressed by it.

 

I have never fit in or been able to fit into society. For years this was a source of self loathing. I started ditching school when I was 8, I went to 10 high schools, never got a diploma and have never been able to "succeed" in any materiel sense.

 

As I became older I realized I didn't want materiel things. I was never very promiscuous and was not motivated by sex or money. Im happy to think that this is a reflection of my evolution, and content in the only niche I seem to fill which is a follower of my path.

 

Problem is Im also a dad and have had alot of trouble over the years with the social convention and state institutions telling me what and where my concerns need to be, what my priorities need to be and so on. In order to live up to the state enforced standard I've had to search alot to find a community I can live and work in.

 

A couple of years ago I did. I found a place that I loved, it was a place without industry, and about 60% native American population. It was an extremely rural place where everyone was broke and OK with it so there was a nice noncompetitive, unstructured quality of life.

 

But you cant control others. I have basically been chased out of the community I was becoming a part of by the Principal of the Elementary school, and the secretary of records at a school in another county because my son was born during a storm that caused a 10 day power outage, I delivered him and there is no birth record.

 

I was not avoiding the world. I took him to school everyday and the teacher let him in and he did his work. He had gone to two other schools and the one he was attending which was a charter school developed for extreme rural families for whom it is not so practical to attend a conventional school.

 

The secretary in Humboldt county told the teacher he was not allowed to attend without a birth record which I know is false, and denying enrollment because of lack of documentation is a federal violation of constitutional and civil rights and the teacher also knew that so my son kept going. Then we were told by the teacher that her job was threatened because of my son, and the secretary in Humboldt spoke with the principal of the school in my town and filed  truancy file on my son and I and were going to send CPS to enforce their agenda. I did my research, got on the phone with the secretary of records confronted her with statements from the US dept of justice, she ignored them and hung up on me.

 

I work hard, Im a farmer; not that kinda bum, but I am poor and the only one I could find that would help charged $240.00 for a 30 minute phone consultation. I lived with a native family and CPS was coming, and my experience has shown that CPS is an unreasonable entity that cant be catered too, and to even slightly do so is to risk having your children kidnapped.

 

So we left but am now in the same situation as always of trying to figure out how to live in a society that wont allow me too.

[Rara]

@ion Unfortunately, I have no advice there as when it comes to children, I am certainly lacking one. Sounds like the usual case of people stamping their authority just because. I know the type well...quite bothersome.

 

I guess there are limits, but within reason, we can do the bare minimum to keep "society" happy.

 

There has to be some give, and part of my current training involves accepting the position that I am in and taking part in the things that are "necessary". I am often surprised how supportive some can be in the "real world"

 

I hope my use of inverted commas speaks volumes of my eye-rolling nature. That's because it is tough for my ego to yield and conform in places but there are certainly benefits once I manage to put that all to one side.

[thelerner]

What do you do when all men doubt you?

When even 2 or 3 guys doubt me I'll often spend some time considering that they could be right and ponder what I could have done to handle the situation or philosophy with more skillful means. 

 

When everyone doubts me I'll usually fall back on the truism 'The opposite of a great truth, is another great truth', odds are we're  approaching a problem and looking from 2 different angles.

[Kubba]

I think a big insight is when you notice that even successful people are anxious and unhappy and that you have something they don't.

Comparing oneself to others, and thinking that you are better because you think that you know something - thats

The definition of selfishnes, thats arogancy in form of spiritual arogancy.

[liminal_luke]

Kubba,

 

Donuts aren´t good for you. Unless of course we´re talking about a fresh sugar-free kale donut glazed with beet juice and sprinkled with slivered almonds. Those are rare, I grant you, but what Nikolia1 is talking about is the kale donut of social comparisons. A kind of social comparison that´s actually useful and healthy: the realization that money and fame don´t necessarily bring happiness.

Edited December 31, 2015 by liminal_luke

[Karl]

Kubba,Donuts aren´t good for you. Unless of course we´re talking about a fresh sugar-free kale donut glazed with beet juice and sprinkled with slivered almonds. Those are rare, I grant you, but what Nikolia1 is talking about is the kale donut of social comparisons. A kind of social comparison that´s actually useful and healthy: the realization that money and fame don´t necessarily bring happiness.

 

That's an invalid argument. Fame and fortune are effects and not causes. Unhealthy eating is causal. They cannot be compared.

 

It's an example of backwards thinking or more technically post hoc ergo propter hoc. Putting effect prior to cause.

 

It is not true that a man cannot be happy, rich and famous. It is true that sugary, high fat donuts are generally less healthy than fresh fruit and vegetables.

 

I wanted to pick that out because it's an important difference, because you are not stating what makes for happiness, only that which may not always accompany happiness. We can be spiritual practitioners and miserable as well as wealthy, famous and miserable. This doesn't answer the important question 'how is one to be happy'.

 

 

 

 

 

[9th]

That's an invalid argument. Fame and fortune are effects and not causes.

 

This is not true.  Your logic is flawed.

 

 "Pratitya samutpada is sometimes called the teaching of cause and effect, but that can be misleading, because we usually think of cause and effect as separate entities, with cause always preceding effect, and one cause leading to one effect. According to the teaching of Interdependent Co-Arising, cause and effect co-arise (samutpada) and everything is a result of multiple causes and conditions... In the sutras, this image is given: "Three cut reeds can stand only by leaning on one another. If you take one away, the other two will fall." For a table to exist, we need wood, a carpenter, time, skillfulness, and many other causes. And each of these causes needs other causes to be. The wood needs the forest, the sunshine, the rain, and so on. The carpenter needs his parents, breakfast, fresh air, and so on. And each of those things, in turn, has to be brought about by other causes and conditions. If we continue to look in this way, we'll see that nothing has been left out. Everything in the cosmos has come together to bring us this table. Looking deeply at the sunshine, the leaves of the tree, and the clouds, we can see the table. The one can be seen in the all, and the all can be seen in the one. One cause is never enough to bring about an effect. A cause must, at the same time, be an effect, and every effect must also be the cause of something else. Cause and effect inter-are. The idea of first and only cause, something that does not itself need a cause, cannot be applied."

 

- Thich Nhat Hanh

[Karl]

This is not true. Your logic is flawed.

You haven't denied the logic of my refutation, you have denied the very existence of logic, if you accept the premesis and conclusion in the paragraph you posted.

 

However, my purpose was to pose the question 'how can men attain happiness' rather than what things are not the direct cause of happiness.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Karl

[liminal_luke]

Karl,

 

It´s just a metaphor to make the point that I think the kind of social comparison Nikolai1 suggested is helpful. That is it. If, in your opinion, the comparison doesn´t stand up to rigorous logical analysis, please consider that it wasn´t meant to.

Edited January 1, 2016 by liminal_luke