What do you do when all men doubt you?

[Karl]

Karl,It´s just a metaphor to make the point that I think the kind of social comparison Nikolai1 suggested is helpful. That is it. If, in your opinion, the comparison doesn´t stand up to rigorous logical analysis, please consider that it wasn´t meant to.

 

That it didn't stand up as a metaphor wasn't really the point. It's what it reveals that is interesting and the question it poses.

 

 

[silent thunder]

I remind myself that perception is not truth.  just because you, I, or someone else, thought something and felt strongly about it doesn't make it real, true, or even important... don't believe everything you think.

[doc benway]

What do you do if you fail at your career, lose all your friends, and lose all your money?

 

What if everything in your environment reflects your constant failures to thrive in this material world, this competitive rat-race?

 

How do you regain your sense of confidence, charisma and enthusiasm in the face of such adversity? 

 

How does one find solace in one's essence beyond this material world when having a "healthy ego" is so determined by how well one performs in our societal and cultural hierarchy?

 

Well, you don't have a choice, right?  So you get back into the game, try once again, but then how can you start all over fresh and clean, without any trace of previous defeats haunting your every word and action?

 

I mean, it's all well and good to be a lone wolf and do your own thing, but if you can never fit in and succeed into the mold of this world, especially financially, how do you not start resenting that world and all the people that live in it?

 

I am at a point where I am finding it very difficult to love and respect the people who have what I don't. I try so hard to like them, but I cannot find any reason to, other than that is "the right thing to do".  Should I forgive them, or forgive myself?   All those people who rejected my good intentions, and the friends that were never there for me compound my sense of self-rejection.  How do I just let it go?   I feel like part of me would feel like a pushover or a wimp for even giving anyone a second chance.  Of course, it's not -everyone-, but it sure feels like it in my heart.

 

How can I detach myself so much that I have no ego left to get hurt while still succeeding in the material world?

 

When all men doubt you, what I would do is try to recognize that you are addicted to their approval.

If you can liberate yourself from that disease, your outlook and potential will improve.

It's not easy but there is no more valuable use of your effort than to look at that aspect of yourself very deeply.

We are all trained to be that way from birth.

 

Success is yours to define. If you subscribe to others' definitions you will try to live to their expectations rather than define your own. That can never be satisfactory. Furthermore, if you accept the materialistic definition of success, as you seem to be focused on, you will never be truly happy. Your happiness will be unstable and will fluctuate with your conditions and circumstances. 

 

Good luck on your path.

[CrunchyChocolate555]

Edited January 3, 2016 by CrunchyChocolate555

[thelerner]

 

Donuts aren´t good for you. Unless of course we´re talking about a fresh sugar-free kale donut glazed with beet juice and sprinkled with slivered almonds. Those are rare, I grant you,

Wait..back up, are they real?  I'd be willing to try the sugar or no sugar version.

 

later edit.  They are real.  Life is worth living..

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by thelerner

[growant]

Quote from a seer "True happiness doesn't come from having a successful dream.  True happiness comes from waking up from the dream."

[Orion]

A lot of people say they want money but what they really want is the thing that they think money will get them, and usually it's not a material thing: stability, security, "success", happiness, adoration, and so forth. Some people associate money with stability -- well, what does stability look like for you? Maybe it's success. Well, what is success to you? These people that "make" you angry because of their achievements and possessions, they're actually pointing you to the truth of what you want in life. You're annoyed that you seemingly can't have what they have because it violates rules that you've imposed on yourself, rules that nobody told you that were necessary to live by. You're totally free, maybe your rules are preventing you from seeing that.

 

I can tell you from personal experience that I've volunteered in shanty towns where people make less than a dollar a day, and they are some of the most happy people I've ever met. I've visited mansions of the uber wealthy in gated communities and seen great turmoil. Everybody suffers. Nobody is above "the system", and by that I mean samsara. Comparing yourself to others is pointless because a) you don't even know the value of what you're comparing (that is, your own unrealized potential), and B: you're just looking at a surface value assessment of whoever you're objectifying. You have no idea what's going on in said person just by looking at them. Some of the greatest masters in the world look like average joes and some of the most outwardly happy people are really dying inside.

 

Once you determine the qualities of what you really want, you can do a lot of self-inquiry on those concepts alone. For example, I used to try to make money like crazy because for me money = security, but what is security? When you die, you lose everything. There no are guarantees. Billionaires die every day, many of them full of regrets. So where does security really come from? Honestly. The same goes for success, popularity, having a good family, having a good career. I'm not saying that you shouldn't pursue these things. No matter what you do in this life, you're still taking your own present awareness with you everywhere you go. You could move to Timbuktuand you still have to deal with yourself. Attainment doesn't mean the material world doesn't matter anymore, it means that you're unattached to results, it means you are awake to the nature of arising and dissolving. It means understanding that the same lessons of your progression will confront you no matter what it is you do. Last year I had a very wealthy lawyer come to see me for acupuncture. He had a very high degree of what I would call attainment. That doesn't mean he won't go home and manage his stock portfolio later. He just knows that he's not "this", when all is said and done.

 

You're ego typing on a forum. There's no point in trying to separate yourself from yourself and pretend it's not happening. You're creating suffering. Pretending that you don't want something, when actually you do, is somewhat obstructionist. I've met a lot of "spiritual" people who use spiritual practices as a pretense to avoid facing the reality that they actually want things, and that it might take work to get them. Yes, the material world and the game of making money really stinks in a lot of ways -- but hey, what an opportunity for you to do inner work across many circumstances!

 

In many traditions, practitioners are encouraged to go out into the world and try to get what they want, live the temptations, etc. Only then can you really understand what the value is of any kind of real attainment. And maybe through those pursuits, you'll find that the spiritual path isn't for you. Maybe you're actually pretty materialistic! Who cares?

 

There's no rights or wrong path here. Admitting what you want is profoundly self-loving. Denying yourself is totally stagnating. I'm not saying that the cycle of desire and acquisition is not without it's pitfalls, but why act like you're above it when you're not?

 

Just admit what you want.

 

My bigger question is, what if you don't actually want anything?

Edited January 4, 2016 by Orion

[Karl]

 

Good post.

 

If you're alive you want something. Even if it's just to move your leg to remove a bit of pressure, or

 

scratch an itch. You have to have a breath, a drink, eat, stay at a comfortable temperature, avoid danger. Almost everybody has some point of comfort with possessions. It's not about what you have, or what you want, but how you fairly you earned it, or are prepared to earn it.

 

Seems like we learned an obvious lesson-or at least we should have learned it-that stealing, beating, cheating, hurting and lying to get what you want is ultimately not satisfying and leads to ever more attacks against ones virtue bringing more misery in its wake. By attacking ones own virtues the pain piles up. Ever more complex lies, self deception, fear and guilt, self hatred grow like a cancer eating up the person.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Karl

[Brian]

Double-post

Edited January 4, 2016 by Brian

[Brian]

Wait..back up, are they real? I'd be willing to try the sugar or no sugar version.

 

later edit. They are real. Life is worth living..

 

Look like pecans to me.

 

EDIT: Maybe pecans and bacon? Use collards instead of kale and you've got high-faluting Southern health food! (Ordinary Southern health food would involve some Krispy Kremes...)

Edited January 4, 2016 by Brian

[Junko]

Look like pecans to me.

EDIT: Maybe pecans and bacon? Use collards instead of kale and you've got high-faluting Southern health food! (Ordinary Southern health food would involve some Krispy Kremes...)

look like a vegetable bagar.

[Bearded Dragon]

What do you do if you fail at your career, lose all your friends, and lose all your money?

 

What if everything in your environment reflects your constant failures to thrive in this material world, this competitive rat-race?

 

How do you regain your sense of confidence, charisma and enthusiasm in the face of such adversity? 

 

How does one find solace in one's essence beyond this material world when having a "healthy ego" is so determined by how well one performs in our societal and cultural hierarchy?

 

Well, you don't have a choice, right?  So you get back into the game, try once again, but then how can you start all over fresh and clean, without any trace of previous defeats haunting your every word and action?

 

I mean, it's all well and good to be a lone wolf and do your own thing, but if you can never fit in and succeed into the mold of this world, especially financially, how do you not start resenting that world and all the people that live in it?

 

I am at a point where I am finding it very difficult to love and respect the people who have what I don't. I try so hard to like them, but I cannot find any reason to, other than that is "the right thing to do".  Should I forgive them, or forgive myself?   All those people who rejected my good intentions, and the friends that were never there for me compound my sense of self-rejection.  How do I just let it go?   I feel like part of me would feel like a pushover or a wimp for even giving anyone a second chance.  Of course, it's not -everyone-, but it sure feels like it in my heart.

 

How can I detach myself so much that I have no ego left to get hurt while still succeeding in the material world?

 

I have one arm that's weaker than the other, yet I have never considered it to be an issue.

 

People are like that. Maybe there just aren't any strong arms where you're looking. That's ok. You can learn from that experience.

[CrunchyChocolate555]

Edited January 6, 2016 by CrunchyChocolate555