Does 'the void' have a physical location?

[Bindi]

Yes, according to the two quotes below.
 

“The Brahma nadi [the central channel in sushumna] is the void that connects to the Brahmarandhra [the door of Brahma], a void between the twin hemispheres of the brain, located in the Crown chakra”

“In the Sahasrara [Crown] Chakra the prana moves upward and reaches the highest point. The mind establishes itself in the pure void of Shunya Mandala, the space between the hemispheres. At this time all feelings, emotions and desires, which are the activities of the mind, are dissolved into their primary cause. The union is achieved. The yogi is sat-chit-ananda, truth being bliss. He is his own real self, and as long as he stays in his physical body he retains no dual consciousness, enjoying the play of Lila without becoming troubled by pleasure and pain, honors and humiliations.”

(from Chakras: Energy Centers of Transformation
By Harish Johar)

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Teachers like Harish Johari always need to explain something like this.

 

The truth is that surely the experience of Void is related to a specific pattern of pranic movements, but to deliberately produce such movements by mean of visualizations will produce nothing but a short life.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Cheshire Cat

[allinone]

Void will happen. You will know what to do in each step without looking it up from a book, the things what you know how to do are too complicated and you will forget how it were done pretty soon.Next time you get there its different anyway and while you do these things, you will think how did you manage to do these stuff and wonder if it were luck.

 

Brain evolved after the eyes. Senses are generated in brain. Senses have substance. You need substance in order to play a game. By losing you will gain knowledge and experience and once you dip the bottom you will get it and will win.

 

Finding rival is a good way to cultivate what it feels to be a looser. Without substance you won't feel the pain and don't learn anything new. So if that quote says desires are gone, no pleasure no pain, its because the void and what comes after had dissolved the substance, but to reach there you need to become a winner. Interestingly the preliminaries how to get the substance is not told, its then easy to think you are done, king of the law.

[Kar3n]

Realization far outweighs quotes from book or teachers. Taking the time to dig as deep into ourselves as we do into the worldwide web and books for answers is far more rewarding.

[NotVoid]

Does 'the void' have a physical location?

 

If any void has a location it is not void.

[Michael Sternbach]

This question can be answered in a variety of ways. One 'physical location' (and quite possibly what the OP refers to) is the pineal gland.

[Michael Sternbach]

The void has no location because it is void. However, there are locations where it can be more readily recognized/accessed/related-to.

 

Which coincide with certain 'zero points', 'singularities' or bindus in the subtle anatomy.

[liminal_luke]

I hope so. Sometimes I like to imagine infinity trapped in a very tiny space, a small infinity that could fit in my pocket. Maybe the void is there too jiggling around like a loose penny.

[Bindi]

This question can be answered in a variety of ways. One 'physical location' (and quite possibly what the OP refers to) is the pineal gland.

Maybe, and the idea that ajna and the crown chakra are associated with the pineal and pituitary glands has been around for a while, and this could be what he is referring to.

 

But what if Johari is actually referring to the space (in subtle anatomy) between the two hemispheres of the brain. Then he is in effect asserting that the right and the left sides of the brain (associated with male/female, yin/yang) are balanced when consciousness sits in between these two opposites. This actually makes quite a lot of sense to me.

 

And initially I agreed with him, as I have reason to believe that the void between the two hemispheres is remarkably important, but I do wonder if this void is actually more like a barrier between the left and the right hemisphere. Something like a guardian that restricts conscious access to the right brain.

 

In this perspective, the right brain consciously processes information in a very different way to the left brain. The left hemisphere dominates our conscious thought processes with its verbal, logical, and linear style. The global and intuitive style of the right hemisphere then either remains largely subconscious, or is held in check by the left hemisphere, as it cannot tolerate the knowledge that results from the thought processes of the right hemisphere.

 

This is similar to the theory of dual consciousness - see http://www.legiontheory.com/split-brain.html

Edited January 1, 2016 by Bindi

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[NotVoid]

According to science,

the vacuum is definitely everywhere.

If that were true, you and I wouldn't be 'here'.

[Bindi]

According to science,

the vacuum is definitely everywhere.

 

According to Dzogchen theory,

the Natural State is diffused in the whole body but concentrated in the heart.

I agree that the chakra's and dantians and kundalini as well as however many other channels there are beyond the central channel are all involved energetically.

 

I'm probably just trying to find an end point, which would nonetheless remain joined to the earlier parts of the energetic path anyway.

[Orion]

It's my experiential understanding that the crown is outside of the body, just above the skull (about 2-3 inches). It is connected by what some traditions call the guru chakra, an intermediary energy bridge between the pineal gland and the crown.

 

The experience of transcending duality is not just due to the bridging of the hemispheres, but the bridging of the personal and transpersonal.

 

My energetic understanding, using the chakra model, is that once the crown and transpersonal chakras are activated and divine energy is flowing down the central axis, the pineal gland becomes supercharged and naturally pulls both hemispheres to its influence, creating the void state. If all chakras are connected, then the heart registers this truth, and the root pulls it down into physical, dense, embodied awareness.

 

I liken it to a battery. On its own, it holds its own charge, with its central core (like the middle dantian, or heart). When you plug the battery into a wall to charge (crowd / upper dantian), it's connected to a source much, much larger than itself. The ocean becomes the drop, the drop becomes the ocean. The void state is the unification and dissolution of both, as there's no beginning or end in oneness.

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Apech]

You obviously have no concept of vacuum.

 

I googled it and got this :

 

[ion]

Good question. So good it deserves two answers.

 

My first answer is  yes, because it is the core of everything, it is everywhere.

 

My second answer is Absolutely NOT.

 

The void is not conditioned or characterized by form; having no characteristics means it is not in contact with anything so it cant be said to have a position. Position is relative. Something can not be in contact with something else without the occurrence of conditioning. Conditioning causes characteristics. Void is without characteristics, so can not said to have an existence let alone a location.

 

Space/vacuum is given characteristics (distances/dimensions/time) by ("form" and) phenomenon.

[Michael Sternbach]

Maybe, and the idea that ajna and the crown chakra are associated with the pineal and pituitary glands has been around for a while, and this could be what he is referring to.

 

But what if Johari is actually referring to the space (in subtle anatomy) between the two hemispheres of the brain. Then he is in effect asserting that the right and the left sides of the brain (associated with male/female, yin/yang) are balanced when consciousness sits in between these two opposites. This actually makes quite a lot of sense to me.

 

The pineal gland is indeed situated between the two cerebral hemispheres.

 

 

And initially I agreed with him, as I have reason to believe that the void between the two hemispheres is remarkably important, but I do wonder if this void is actually more like a barrier between the left and the right hemisphere. Something like a guardian that restricts conscious access to the right brain.

 

The connection between the hemispheres is provided by a very large bundle of nerve fibres called the corpus callosum.

 

Moreover, I do imagine that, on some level, a kind of 'membrane' separates the hemispheres from each other.

 

In this perspective, the right brain consciously processes information in a very different way to the left brain. The left hemisphere dominates our conscious thought processes with its verbal, logical, and linear style. The global and intuitive style of the right hemisphere then either remains largely subconscious, or is held in check by the left hemisphere, as it cannot tolerate the knowledge that results from the thought processes of the right hemisphere.

 

It is my understanding that, underneath our usual waking consciousness, information is being computed in the way of massive parallel processing. The linear mind cannot follow this, therefore, these processes remain invisible to it. At best, it will become aware of the end result as an intuitive hunch or sudden inspiration, not unlike a ball dropping out of a  lottery machine.

 

This is similar to the theory of dual consciousness - see http://www.legiontheory.com/split-brain.html

[Michael Sternbach]

By the way, it is well known in quantum physics that the 'vacuum' boils with virtual particles constantly popping out of and back into it. In other words, there is no such thing as a true vacuum.

 

Science is just beginning to understand that living beings are connected to this quantum physical vacuum (traditionally called aether, akasha etc) via "vacuum domains" or "vacuum engines".

 

I recommend the article Field Concepts and the Emergence of a Holistic Biophysics by the Swiss researcher Marco Bischof.

 

http://www.marcobischof.com/en/texte/show.html?id=art_3d141900af22a

[NotVoid]

You obviously have no concept of vacuum.

 

Actually, you are obviously confused.

 

vac·u·um

ˈvakˌyo͞o(ə)m/

noun

noun: vacuum; plural noun: vacua; plural noun: vacuums

1.

a space entirely devoid of matter.

synonyms: emptiness, void, nothingness, vacancy, absence, black hole

"people longing to fill the spiritual vacuum in their lives"

.

a vacuum cleaner.

synonyms: vacuum cleaner, vac; More

trademarkDustbuster, Hoover

"I need to replace the bag in the vacuum"

 

verb

verb: vacuum; 3rd person present: vacuums; past tense: vacuumed; past participle: vacuumed; gerund or present participle: vacuuming

 

1.

clean with a vacuum cleaner.

"the room needs to be vacuumed"

 

 

Perhaps you are confusing the word vacuum with the vacuum state, which are two completely different concepts.

 

This is really neither here nor there however, as I believe the OP was referring to 'the void' which is sometimes reported as being experienced as a result of mental/spiritual practices such as certain types of meditation and related. I doubt he was talking about the vacuum of space or the even the vacuum state for that matter.

Edited January 1, 2016 by NotVoid

[Michael Sternbach]

Perhaps you are confusing the word vacuum with the vacuum state, which are two completely different concepts.

This is really neither here nor there however, as I believe the OP was referring to 'the void' which is sometimes reported as being experienced as a result of mental/spiritual practices such as certain types of meditation and related. I doubt he was talking about the vacuum of space or the even the vacuum state for that matter.

 

Although this post is a reply to someone else, may I suggest that Bindi (who is a she, btw) referred to subtle anatomy - which indeed ties in with the vacuum as understood in physics and discussed by the article I linked.

 

The author demonstrates once again that the subjects of science and spirituality are in truth inseparable. This was the scientific understanding of the ancients (i.e. Greek and Vedic science) - and will hopefully be the understanding of future generations again, when science learns to step beyond materialism and embrace mind and spirit.

[NotVoid]

Although this post is a reply to someone else, may I suggest that Bindi (who is a she, btw) referred to subtle anatomy - which indeed ties in with the vacuum as understood in physics and discussed by the article I linked.

 

This really has little to do with what I pointed out, which was just clarifying what the definition of a vacuum is.

 

 

The author demonstrates once again that the subjects of science and spirituality are in truth inseparable. This was the scientific understanding of the ancients (i.e. Greek and Vedic science) - and will hopefully be the understanding of future generations again, when science learns to step beyond materialism and embrace mind and spirit.

 

That is of course just your opinion the matter, but either way it has little to do with anything I said. What I was really getting at was that in this area of discussion unless someone first clearly defines exactly what they mean by certain terms they are using, then misunderstanding can easily follow. That's all I was trying to point out. It would appear I didn't do a very good job of it.

[9th]

From the most ancient times down to our own epoch, throughout the ages of its life, humanity as a whole has been yearning for a knowledge of this one-ness and seeking for it, pouring itself out into various philosophies and religions which remain, as it were, monuments on the path of these searches for the Path, leading to the knowledge of unity.

 

These searches radiate to the Path just as the radii of a circle join at the center, getting closer into contact with each other the nearer they get to the center. The goal itself determines the direction of the paths and brings the wanderers on the paths to a knowledge of the one-ness which reaches the depths where that knowledge becomes a reality to the knower and cannot be communicated to another who has not reached the same stage of development. The words and notions of conversational language become dead and empty, conveying nothing to him who does not carry such knowledge within himself.

 

In the same way as the sensation off tooth-ache cannot be imparted to one who has not experienced it, and just as the difference of colors cannot be conveyed to one blind from birth, and the wealth of auditory sensation cannot be communicated to the deaf, similarly you cannot tell or relate in words the depth of knowledge which has become part of a man's being. The words and notions of different epochs change according to conditions of place and time; unity is eternal and immutable. The laws, acting in us, and producing the plurality assumed by us, are everywhere the same.

 

From the most ancient times humanity has understood this, and by utilizing the language of symbols and formulas, more perfect than our contemporary language, has gone on handing its knowledge down to the succeeding generations. And everybody approaching the symbol and possessing a complete understanding of it, possesses a perfect synthesis of it. Speaking figuratively, he has this symbol within himself. A symbol, by expressing the knowledge of the laws of unity, has at the same time expressed the path to it. Side by aide with the basic symbols, as if they absorbed into themselves wider spheres, there started up and sprang into existence in subjection to them other symbols and formulae.

 

Everything in the world is one and is governed by uniform laws, and for that reason the "Emerald Tablet" of Hermes Trismegistus put it; "As above, so below".

[doc benway]

Yes, according to the two quotes below.

 

 

 

Space is the term used by Bönpos and my understanding is that one of its characteristics, by definition, is that it has no physical location. My guess is that the Buddhist definition would be similar. I can't speak to other traditions specifically, but I propose that if you find quotes that refer to "the void" as having a physical location, they have been mis-translated, mis-interpreted, or are pointing to a different aspect of reality than "space." And by space I don't mean outer space, I mean the elemental space. Important that we try to agree on what we are referring to.

[Bindi]

The pineal gland is indeed situated between the two cerebral hemispheres.

 

 

 

The connection between the hemispheres is provided by a very large bundle of nerve fibres called the corpus callosum.

 

Moreover, I do imagine that, on some level, a kind of 'membrane' separates the hemispheres from each other.

 

 

It is my understanding that, underneath our usual waking consciousness, information is being computed in the way of massive parallel processing. The linear mind cannot follow this, therefore, these processes remain invisible to it. At best, it will become aware of the end result as an intuitive hunch or sudden inspiration, not unlike a ball dropping out of a  lottery machine.

 

I really am very interested in exploring this alternative way of processing information, and the possibility of becoming conscious of this apparent parallel 'consciousness'. I'd like to start a separate thread on this when I've considered it more. 

[9th]

It is my understanding that, underneath our usual waking consciousness, information is being computed in the way of massive parallel processing. The linear mind cannot follow this, therefore, these processes remain invisible to it. At best, it will become aware of the end result as an intuitive hunch or sudden inspiration, not unlike a ball dropping out of a  lottery machine.

 

This is what Castaneda referred to as the "second attention".  He described it in many various ways, in relation to many other various concepts, but the basic idea is the same.  However, the why and how of it are described a bit differently:

 

 Once we stop our internal dialogue we also stop the world. That is an operational description of the inconceivable process of focusing our second attention. Part of us is always kept under lock and key because we are afraid of it. And to our reason, that part of us is like an insane relative that we keep locked in a dungeon. That part is our second attention, and when it finally can focus on something the world stops. Since we, as average man, know only the attention of the tonal, it is not too farfetched to say that once that attention is canceled, the world indeed has to stop. The focusing of our wild, untrained second attention is, perforce, terrifying. The only way to keep that insane relative from bursting in on us is by shielding ourselves with our endless internal dialogue.

 

   

The second attention, or the attention of the nagual, is reached only after warriors have swept the top of their tables, their islands of the tonal, clean. Reaching the second attention makes the two attentions into a single unit, and that unit is the totality of oneself.

Diligence in an impeccable life is the only way to lose the human form. Losing the human form is the essential requirement for unifying the two attentions.

The attention under the table is the key to everything sorcerers do. In order to reach that attention I have taught you dreaming.

Another way to learn how to do dreaming is by learning gazing. If you gaze at a pile of leaves for hours your thoughts get quiet. Without thoughts the attention of the tonal wanes and suddenly your second attention hooks onto the leaves and the leaves become something else. The moment when the second attention hooks onto something is called stopping the world.

The difficulty in gazing is to learn to quiet down the thoughts. Once you can stop the world you are a gazer. And the only way of stopping the world is by trying. Combine gazing at dry leaves and looking for our hands in dreaming. Once you have trapped your second attention with dry leaves, you do gazing anddreaming to enlarge it. And that's all there is to gazing. All we need to do in order to trap our second attention is to try and try.