Whatever happened in Cologne never never happened

[Taoist Texts]

@karl - they really are on the rise

so are the Tornados

 

Bundeswehr: "Tornado"-Jets starten Einsatz über Syrien und dem Irak

[liminal_luke]

 

 

Of course I don't know that for certain but I know the deep chasm of guilt that permeates the German consciousness and a world that will never allow the reich to be forgotten. Germany is like a lodestone of guilt. If anyone is going to over compensate for past actions, and represent European culture in the guilt Olympics it's the poor old Germans. It seems to me the only pride is in manufacturing things and being efficient, national pride seems verboten.

I´m no expert on German politics but let me say this: feeling guilty is not usually a precursor to good behavior. Quite the contrary. I believe it´s important that the holocaust be remembered, it´s lessons integrated into the culture. But until the German people can stand tall, acknowledging the darkness in their history but not crippled by it, they are more likely to repeat the mistakes of the past than gaurd against them. Nobody benefits from a Germany cloaked in shame and guilt.

 

Liminal

Edited January 8, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

I´m no expert on German politics but let me say this: feeling guilty is not usually a precursor to good behavior. Quite the contrary. I believe it´s important that the holocaust be remembered, it´s lessons integrated into the culture. But until the German people can stand tall, acknowledging the darkness in their history but not crippled by it, they are more likely to repeat the mistakes of the past than gaurd against them. Nobody benefits from a Germany cloaked in shame and guilt.

 

Liminal

 

 

When I think about the Nazi atrocities and Mr. Hitler I always think it could easily have happened in England and the boot on the other foot.  It's time to move on - remember, learn lessons but not the guilt.

[Michael Sternbach]

Can relatives be counted?  Even if you hate them , or indifferent to them, they are still relatives.  Friends are different as they are whom you are friends with.

Nowhere did I state that you hate all Muslims. Nor did I say that the masses of immigrants don't pose any problems. What I said is that posts suggesting maiming and (in effect) killing immigrants are not acceptable on TDB.

 

Talking of torturing, it is generally renamed and considered legal by governments that make use of it.

 

I love animals.

So do I. However, arguably, humans are animals too.

 

The problem of traumatized immigrant in Europe and UK just only starting.

Possibly.

 

Do have fun with your counselling.

 

Try to include Germans too in your counselling as well.

I think you have a wrong idea about the counselling work I mentioned. I did that kind of counselling during most of the 90s when I was collaborating with a psychiatrist. Some really tough cases, and although I liked helping them, "fun" doesn't describe it adequately. People from different cultural backgrounds found their way to our practice, including Muslims (not all of them refugees, btw), Swiss, and yes, a few Germans as well.

 

Nice to know money hijacked from wild life funds and refugees in Nepal from earthquakes and refugees in Syria and Iraq being used to feed and warm and counsel those folks in Koln.  Their needs are much greater.

You keep saying this. What are your sources? And please don't say'Bild' again...

[dust]

However, brought up in a place where reality is the butt of a rifle, a bullet or a beheading they do not exactly share our sheep like nature. They are like foxes in a hen house.

 

Well, yes, fear is a major factor, but simple faith is another. The truly faithful Muslim, Christian, or Jew is just like a sheep.

 

Interestingly, the important Abrahamic prophets all share a shepherd-like story of some sort: Moses led his people out of Egypt; Jesus was "the good shepherd" laying down his life for the sheep; Muhammad watched over camels and sheep before he became a warlord.

 

I'd suggest that humans/populations the world over display sheep-like tendencies, foxes taking the lead.

 

 

I like to think of myself as a bird.

[Karl]

Well, yes, fear is a major factor, but simple faith is another. The truly faithful Muslim, Christian, or Jew is just like a sheep.

 

Interestingly, the important Abrahamic prophets all share a shepherd-like story of some sort: Moses led his people out of Egypt; Jesus was "the good shepherd" laying down his life for the sheep; Muhammad watched over camels and sheep before he became a warlord.

 

I'd suggest that humans/populations the world over display sheep-like tendencies, foxes taking the lead.

 

 

I like to think of myself as a bird.

 

I didn't mean the sheep like tendency to follow, but a conformal passivity. We are kept passive by subtle psychological means and the fear of loss of safety/income/care. Arabs are kept in check by religiosity and physical brutality. They fear Gods wrath and the stick of the state, they aren't secure as such and have no concern over the loss of safety, just their own lives through state action. Europe is therefore a honeypot for those brutalised by dictatorships. They see mild mannered wealthy people and women as prostitutes. We haven't woken up to it and our masters think it's only a matter of time before the same tricks used on us work on the immigrants-they just don't want us kicking off and waking up ahead of their plans.

[Marblehead]

If anyone here ever suspects me of becoming passive please let me know.  I will correct that misunderstanding in a heartbeat.

 

And yes, dogma rules the life of most people.  Learn violent dogma you will likely be a violent person.

[Karl]

If anyone here ever suspects me of becoming passive please let me know.  I will correct that misunderstanding in a heartbeat.

 

And yes, dogma rules the life of most people.  Learn violent dogma you will likely be a violent person.

 

True. It seems to me that US citizens are less passive than Europeans. The US remains relatively free despite the attempts of successive progressive governments. Obarmy is having a go with his healthcare, minimum wage and gun control orders to get you all to tow the line. If death camps were set up in Europe we would all stand in an orderly line awaiting our turn. Ironic that the US government pretends to care about peace at home whilst bombing and invading half the planet.

[Marblehead]

Irony, that last sentence of yours.  But so freakin' true.

 

And I agree with your generalization above that.  I have even been told by a Brit that you Brits love to stand in lines.

 

I had enough of that when I was in the Army.

 

Here is the US I do agree with the drive to increase the federal minimum wage.  Our government keeps causing inflation but the lower income people are earning less.  Over the past few years many of our lower income people have slipped into the "poor" category because of what my government (and many industries) are doing.

 

But we still have more freedoms than do most European, or most any other, countries have.

 

And even though religions keep trying to invade public education they haven't been successful yet.

[Marblehead]

And BTW, if what happened in Cologne happened here in the states some of those offenders would be dead right now.  (Depends on which states though.  Some would do what the Germans are doing now trying to cover it up.)

[Apech]

And BTW, if what happened in Cologne happened here in the states some of those offenders would be dead right now.  (Depends on which states though.  Some would do what the Germans are doing now trying to cover it up.)

 

 

Why do Americans like short sleeved shirts?

 

Cos of the right to bare arms.

[Karl]

Irony, that last sentence of yours.  But so freakin' true.

 

And I agree with your generalization above that.  I have even been told by a Brit that you Brits love to stand in lines.

 

I had enough of that when I was in the Army.

 

Here is the US I do agree with the drive to increase the federal minimum wage.  Our government keeps causing inflation but the lower income people are earning less.  Over the past few years many of our lower income people have slipped into the "poor" category because of what my government (and many industries) are doing.

 

But we still have more freedoms than do most European, or most any other, countries have.

 

And even though religions keep trying to invade public education they haven't been successful yet.

 

Agreed on the inflation, but fixing wages don't improve that, they just move the chance of employment further up the ladder. In effect it is enforced poverty leaving people with no alternative but to live on unemployment or take up a life of crime. It's benefits are only to those who are paid substantially more than the minimum wage in order that they are protected from competition by those who might ask for less.

 

This is well known Marblehead. It isn't just a libertarian fantasy or conservative tough love, it is an economic fact understood by all economists. It suits governments to appear to be helping, unions to protect their members and big business to prevent competition from businesses that might undercut them.

[Marblehead]

Well, if that is true what you said, which I don't doubt, people are way too freakin' cruel to other people.  Where is the freakin' compassion?

[Karl]

Well, if that is true what you said, which I don't doubt, people are way too freakin' cruel to other people.  Where is the freakin' compassion?

 

Its not compassion that is required. When people are ignorant it is one thing, but quite another to evade on deny the need for virtue and principles, or to ignore knowledge that already exists.

 

 

 

 

[shanlung]

.......

 

 

I honestly almost do not want to reply to you.  Especially as you the Star Lord and lording over your domain and conceirge  here with the powers  of life and death, and at least banning here.  And to show your point of burning     hiding posts.

Declaring that I am a xenoaeiou notwithstanding I do have at least 25 muslim friends of Sunni and Shiites and Imams.  Many mentioned in my Livejournal postings made years and years ago.  You should check what is xenophobic before you used that on others.

 

You mistake my disliking of que jumpers as racially motivated hatred.  Dont know if you recall I do not hate as hating meant you fear.  I do not fear.  I extremely dislike que jumpers.  Of those who want  better life (or so they say).  And what kind of life did they show?

 

 

Here is one of them in between drinking hot soup and hot dinners and staying in nice warm house provided free to them.

At a Finnish cemetry insulting the dead Christians and Jews there and having a very good time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01GN5xHC32s

 

I decline to show those videos of them in Koln and other cities of Europe having a jolly good time over New Years Eve.

Or the video of one of them in a train declaring his only purpose of coming to Germany was to convert everyone to be Muslim as that is is sole purpose in life.  Since he need not have to work, in between his 5 daily prayers, he might as well do that.

 

Nowhere did I state that you hate all Muslims. Nor did I say that the masses of immigrants don't pose any problems. What I said is that posts suggesting maiming and (in effect) killing immigrants are not acceptable on TDB.

 

Talking of torturing, it is generally renamed and considered legal by governments that make use of it.

 

Are you blaming me for legal institutions handed down to uncivllised Asians by the civilised and wise colonial Masters from the West and blaming me that those still in place?  All I did was to point out rapers of minors will be given 20 strokes of rotan.  I know in the West counselling and hand holding of rapists of minors, especially by immigrants are the politically correct way.  The trauma done to the little girls , and their families to be laughed over?

You applaud the sentences meted out below?  You do not mind if I disagree with you as I think more of those little kids than those traumatised refugees.

 

Nothing can be too bad for rapist of small little girls.

Retribution of the rotan may bring some closure to the families of those little girls.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...efugee-charged-with-rape-of-10-year-old-girl/

 

Minnesota authorities charged Somali man Ahmed Hersi Abdi with two degrees of first-degree sexual misconduct for allegedly raping a 10-year-old girl in her apartment.

 

Somali community leader Mohamud Noor blamed Americans for not giving enough money to Abdi.

 

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/...sentenced-to-180-hours-community-service.html

 

A 18-year-old Somali immigrant who brutally raped a 12-year-old girl in Sundsvall, Sweden, has been found guilty of rape of a child - but he was sentenced to 180 hours of community service.

 

 

So do I. However, arguably, humans are animals too.

 

 

Possibly.

 

 

I think you have a wrong idea about the counselling work I mentioned. I did that kind of counselling during most of the 90s when I was collaborating with a psychiatrist. Some really tough cases, and although I liked helping them, "fun" doesn't describe it adequately. People from different cultural backgrounds found their way to our practice, including Muslims (not all of them refugees, btw), Swiss, and yes, a few Germans as well.

 

So please tell me if  Gabrielle Keller and her neighbours   in Eschbach, Germany,  got counselling.  Or even if they got a heated tent to live in as they got kicked out after 23 years of living there so traumatised refugees can have nice houses and apartments to live in.  You make your counselling sound like so much fun as you welcomed more and even more of refugees to come.

 

 

Nice to know money hijacked from wild life funds and refugees in Nepal from earthquakes and refugees in Syria and Iraq being used to feed and warm and counsel those folks in Koln.  Their needs are much greater.

 

 

You keep saying this. What are your sources? And please don't say'Bild' again...

 

 

What kind of a economic world did you come from?  Where money just expand and expand to fill the needs, especially of sudden needs of 1,000,000 traumatised refugees with begging bowls to be filled and hot soup and warm houses to be given to FOC?   Other than in Zimbabwe where 3 or 4 or 5 or more zeros were added to the bank notes?

 

Why did government need to go on austerity budgets cutting pensions left and right?  Just print and print money so more can be given to traumatised refugees?  No one need to work especially traumatised refugees!

 

Where even  folks like Gabrielle Keller and her neighbours got to be kicked out so traumatised refugees can live in in between going for counselling and their prayers of 5 times daily and jollying in cities at New Years eve?  There is not even enough housing and you telling me that funds are plentiful and will just grow and keep coming.  Easily enough for the million now and easily enough for the 5 millions more 2016 will see once winter is over.

 

Money that used to go to other charities now got to go to those million+++ begging bowls.

 

Since I am a life member of a few wild life funds, I do get quarterly statements.  And I have seen the level of financial support dropping and dropping as money went elsewhere.

 

I surely have happier things to do and to write about then telling you of things you should known but do not wish to know so your Emperor can continue to walk about in his beautiful clothings.

 

Maybe I should go back to reading of my 鹿鼎記   and to get a start on my writing of Nepal and Riyadh chapter of my life.

 

 

Idiotic Taoist waiting and just waiting for the ax to drop and receiving a permanent ban so as not to disturb the harmony of thoughts here.

Edited January 10, 2016 by shanlung

[Marblehead]

Intuition tells me to try to moderate this discussion.

 

Problem:  What has happened and is happening cannot be moderated by me.

 

The facts and the emotions they have given birth to are beyond logic and rationality.

 

Therefore all I can say is that we should take care so to not violate the forum rules which would put us in a position of requiring Administration or Moderation action.

 

Again I will remind us all that generalizing, especially of people or belief systems almost always lead to conflict.

[Karl]

As it has now been agreed by Governments across Europe that there is a problem in multiple countries with dark skinned men, of indeterminate origin engaging in sexual harassment of women, then the subject is no longer one of Government complicity in failing to make it public. They certainly did discourage the press from reporting the issue in some sense of that there is no longer any doubt.

 

This thread has moved beyond that subject and into culpability, punishment and prevention. I'm not sure we know sufficient facts to determine any of those things. These men have effectively vanished and it seems there is little evidence to support any kind of investigation, only eye witness accounts.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Karl

[Michael Sternbach]

I honestly almost do not want to reply to you.  Especially as you the Star Lord and lording over your domain and conceirge  here with the powers  of life and death, and at least banning here.  And to show your point of burning     hiding posts.

 

 

Declaring that I am a xenoaeiou notwithstanding I do have at least 25 muslim friends of Sunni and Shiites and Imams.  Many mentioned in my Livejournal postings made years and years ago.  You should check what is xenophobic before you used that on others.

 

Alright, let's see if we can fix that. How would you have me edit the "xenophobic" label on the hidden posts before I reopen that thread? How about "inhumane"? "Misanthropic"? Or... "contemptuous of human life"?

 

You mistake my disliking of que jumpers as racially motivated hatred.  Dont know if you recall I do not hate as hating meant you fear.  I do not fear.  I extremely dislike que jumpers.  Of those who want  better life (or so they say).  And what kind of life did they show?

 

 

Here is one of them in between drinking hot soup and hot dinners and staying in nice warm house provided free to them.

At a Finnish cemetry insulting the dead Christians and Jews there and having a very good time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01GN5xHC32s

 

I decline to show those videos of them in Koln and other cities of Europe having a jolly good time over New Years Eve.

Or the video of one of them in a train declaring his only purpose of coming to Germany was to convert everyone to be Muslim as that is is sole purpose in life.  Since he need not have to work, in between his 5 daily prayers, he might as well do that.

 

Nowhere did I state that you hate all Muslims. Nor did I say that the masses of immigrants don't pose any problems. What I said is that posts suggesting maiming and (in effect) killing immigrants are not acceptable on TDB.

 

Talking of torturing, it is generally renamed and considered legal by governments that make use of it.

 

Are you blaming me for legal institutions handed down to uncivllised Asians by the civilised and wise colonial Masters from the West and blaming me that those still in place?

 

Maybe they are in still in place because there are still people who think they are a good idea?

 

 

 All I did was to point out rapers of minors will be given 20 strokes of rotan.  I know in the West counselling and hand holding of rapists of minors, especially by immigrants are the politically correct way.  The trauma done to the little girls , and their families to be laughed over?

You applaud the sentences meted out below?  You do not mind if I disagree with you as I think more of those little kids than those traumatised refugees.

 

Nothing can be too bad for rapist of small little girls.

Retribution of the rotan may bring some closure to the families of those little girls.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...efugee-charged-with-rape-of-10-year-old-girl/

 

Minnesota authorities charged Somali man Ahmed Hersi Abdi with two degrees of first-degree sexual misconduct for allegedly raping a 10-year-old girl in her apartment.

 

Somali community leader Mohamud Noor blamed Americans for not giving enough money to Abdi.

 

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/...sentenced-to-180-hours-community-service.html

 

A 18-year-old Somali immigrant who brutally raped a 12-year-old girl in Sundsvall, Sweden, has been found guilty of rape of a child - but he was sentenced to 180 hours of community service.

 

I am all too well aware of the horrors of child abuse! Not only have I treated cases, I also had one so close to me that it's too personal to go into this here. Why do you think I would play it down just because I don't agree on those drastic punishments you are suggesting? Do they prevent crimes from happening? And what about the inevitable judicial errors?

 

So do I. However, arguably, humans are animals too.

 

 

Possibly.

 

 

I think you have a wrong idea about the counselling work I mentioned. I did that kind of counselling during most of the 90s when I was collaborating with a psychiatrist. Some really tough cases, and although I liked helping them, "fun" doesn't describe it adequately. People from different cultural backgrounds found their way to our practice, including Muslims (not all of them refugees, btw), Swiss, and yes, a few Germans as well.

 

So please tell me if  Gabrielle Keller and her neighbours   in Eschbach, Germany,  got counselling.  Or even if they got a heated tent to live in as they got kicked out after 23 years of living there so traumatised refugees can have nice houses and apartments to live in.  You make your counselling sound like so much fun as you welcomed more and even more of refugees to come.

 

Here's the thing... You single out some bad cases, then make a generalization about all refugees, and suggest treating them in inhumane ways. For one thing, there are plenty of families among them. Would you want your children to live where there are bullets flying around them and bombs exploding while they're playing in the sandbox? Do you think those refugees were all just waiting to leave their countries before war broke loose?

 

You keep saying this. What are your sources? And please don't say'Bild' again...

 

 

What kind of a economic world did you come from?  Where money just expand and expand to fill the needs, especially of sudden needs of 1,000,000 traumatised refugees with begging bowls to be filled and hot soup and warm houses to be given to FOC?   Other than in Zimbabwe where 3 or 4 or 5 or more zeros were added to the bank notes?

 

Why did government need to go on austerity budgets cutting pensions left and right?  Just print and print money so more can be given to traumatised refugees?  No one need to work especially traumatised refugees!

 

Where even  folks like Gabrielle Keller and her neighbours got to be kicked out so traumatised refugees can live in in between going for counselling and their prayers of 5 times daily and jollying in cities at New Years eve?  There is not even enough housing and you telling me that funds are plentiful and will just grow and keep coming.  Easily enough for the million now and easily enough for the 5 millions more 2016 will see once winter is over.

 

Money that used to go to other charities now got to go to those million+++ begging bowls.

 

Since I am a life member of a few wild life funds, I do get quarterly statements.  And I have seen the level of financial support dropping and dropping as money went elsewhere.

 

You still haven't given me any particular sources which clearly state the connections. There it is again, that gross simplification. In reality, many countries are still suffering from recessions which can't all be blamed on evil refugees.

 

I surely have happier things to do and to write about then telling you of things you should known but do not wish to know so your Emperor can continue to walk about in his beautiful clothings.

 

Maybe I should go back to reading of my 鹿鼎記   and to get a start on my writing of Nepal and Riyadh chapter of my life.

 

Maybe you should go back to reading your 道德經? (See my next paragraph.)

 

Idiotic Taoist waiting and just waiting for the ax to drop and receiving a permanent ban so as not to disturb the harmony of thoughts here.

 

Luckily for you, this is a Daoist website, so we understand that:

 

 

That's why we prefer to communicate with people rather than beheading them.

 

Something you should take to heart!

 

Michael

[Karl]

Well, if that is true what you said, which I don't doubt, people are way too freakin' cruel to other people.  Where is the freakin' compassion?

 

Came across this the other day:

 

During South Africa’s apartheid era, the secretary of its avowedly racist Building Workers’ Union, Gert Beetge, said, “There is no job reservation left in the building industry, and in the circumstances, I support the rate for the job (minimum wage) as the second-best way of protecting our white artisans.” The South African Economic and Wage Commission of 1925 reported that “while definite exclusion of the Natives from the more remunerative fields of employment by law has not been urged upon us, the same result would follow a certain use of the powers of the Wage Board under the Wage Act of 1925, or of other wage-fixing legislation. The method would be to fix a minimum rate for an occupation or craft so high that no Native would be likely to be employed.”

[Taoist Texts]

 The method would be to fix a minimum rate for an occupation or craft so high that no Native would be likely to be employed.”

 A minimum rate is color-blind. This does not make sense.

[Karl]

A minimum rate is color-blind. This does not make sense.

The employer isn't. They can choose a white man over a black man. If they value the White man more then that's who will get the job.

 

Regardless of the Governments attempts to destroy freedom and choice by outlawing discrimination, until employers are given a quota of people they are forced to employ, then discrimination still persists. The answer to this by liberals is to force the employer by government edict and so turn a country to communism/facism. As it stands, a minimum wage is a protectionist policy for white males/ females as it stops blacks/youths/low skilled undercutting them. Black, low skilled and youth are synonymous with each other which puts them at a distinct disadvantage. It could be said that minimum wage is actually racist.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Karl

[Marblehead]

Came across this the other day: During South Africa’s apartheid era, the secretary of its avowedly racist Building Workers’ Union, Gert Beetge, said, “There is no job reservation left in the building industry, and in the circumstances, I support the rate for the job (minimum wage) as the second-best way of protecting our white artisans.” The South African Economic and Wage Commission of 1925 reported that “while definite exclusion of the Natives from the more remunerative fields of employment by law has not been urged upon us, the same result would follow a certain use of the powers of the Wage Board under the Wage Act of 1925, or of other wage-fixing legislation. The method would be to fix a minimum rate for an occupation or craft so high that no Native would be likely to be employed.”

Great compassion.  Yeah, right.  Of course, we Americans can't say too much based on what was done to the Native Americans and then to African Blacks.

 

Greed and power rather than compassion.

[Marblehead]

 A minimum rate is color-blind. This does not make sense.

A lot of what has happened down there doesn't make sense.

[Taoist Texts]

The employer isn't. They can choose a white man over a black man. If they value the White man more then that's who will get the job.

Then the minimum wage has nothing to do with the employer's choice.

 As it stands, a minimum wage is a protectionist policy for white males/ females as it stops blacks/youths/low skilled undercutting them. Black, low skilled and youth are synonymous with each other which puts them at a distinct disadvantage. It could be said that minimum wage is actually racist.

/Black, low skilled and youth / has nothing to do with minimum wage. An employer who does not like such employees would not hire them at any wage. Sorry, Karl. Does not compute.

[Taoist Texts]

A lot of what has happened down there doesn't make sense.

I donno. To me its obvious that demographics is the key. 2 or 3 centuries of prosperous white rule have distorted the demographics: the prosperity made whites to stop procreating while th same prosperity created a black urban boom. As an inevitable consequence he former were overran by the latter. Simple.