Whatever happened in Cologne never never happened

[Karl]

Then the minimum wage has nothing to do with the employer's choice.

 

/Black, low skilled and youth / has nothing to do with minimum wage. An employer who does not like such employees would not hire them at any wage. Sorry, Karl. Does not compute.

 

Employers look at cost and return. They weigh up the risk of taking on a black youth vs a white youth. It's just like anything we buy, price is a determinate. We might like a Ferrari but can only buy a Ford. If we are then forced to pay Ferrari prices anyway, then you aren't going to get many people opting for the ford.

 

Its the reason we like sales. We get a bargain but we might buy something we wouldn't normally have bought. We take a risk because the cost is reduced. Take away the negotiating rights of a black youth and it puts them at a serious disadvantage to their white counterparts. An employer is more likely to take a punt on a young black guy if the price is right.

 

This is only one issue of minimum wages. The rest I have mentioned previously.

[Brian]

The origins of minimum wage regulations in the US were similar.

 

People are often in disbelief, though, when they are exposed to the underlying principles and predictable results of many seemingly good ideas implemented by self-serving controllers.

[Taoist Texts]

 Take away the negotiating rights of a black youth and it puts them at a serious disadvantage to their white counterparts. An employer is more likely to take a punt on a young black guy if the price is right. This is only one issue of minimum wages. The rest I have mentioned previously.

hehe)

 

i see you are quoting Wiliams.

 

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/01/walter-e-williams/bunch-liars-minimum-wage/

 

i am actually a fan of his, but he is a fuzzy thinker on this one.

 

The Senate Budget Committee’s blog says, “Top Economists Are Backing Sen. Bernie Sanders on Establishing a $15 an Hour Minimum Wage.” It lists the names of 210 economists who call for increasing the federal minimum wage. The petition starts off, “We, the undersigned professional economists, favor an increase in the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour as of 2020.” The petition ends with this: “In short, raising the federal minimum to $15 an hour by 2020 will be an effective means of improving living standards for low-wage workers and their families and will help stabilize the economy. The costs to other groups in society will be modest and readily absorbed.”

[Karl]

The origins of minimum wage regulations in the US were similar.

People are often in disbelief, though, when they are exposed to the underlying principles and predictable results of many seemingly good ideas implemented by self-serving controllers.

 

I'm more amazed by the day. The central bank interest apartheid which does nothing for the man in the street, but everything for the carry trade and zombie corporations is regarded as beneficial to consumers. I came across a guy the other day saying fearfully 'they are readying us for an interest rate rise' as if interest rates shouldn't be connected to market forces.

 

Then there is the complete bollox about inflation-which used to be a bad thing, then became a necessary thing and is now a good thing. 'If only we could pay more for our shopping and energy how great the world would be'. It's insanity.

 

I'm not sure if I walk down the street and turn around, that my house won't have turned into a giant beach ball or a portrait of Hendrix.

[Karl]

hehe)

 

i see you are quoting Wiliams.

 

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/01/walter-e-williams/bunch-liars-minimum-wage/

 

i am actually a fan of his, but he is a fuzzy thinker on this one.

 

The Senate Budget Committee’s blog says, “Top Economists Are Backing Sen. Bernie Sanders on Establishing a $15 an Hour Minimum Wage.” It lists the names of 210 economists who call for increasing the federal minimum wage. The petition starts off, “We, the undersigned professional economists, favor an increase in the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour as of 2020.” The petition ends with this: “In short, raising the federal minimum to $15 an hour by 2020 will be an effective means of improving living standards for low-wage workers and their families and will help stabilize the economy. The costs to other groups in society will be modest and readily absorbed.”

 

Why do you think he is a 'fuzzy thinker'. The result of higher prices is less custom. If a business only uses low wage staff due to the price it's products command on the market, then it must either change its market completely ( which isn't plausible), reduce its staff ( which will reduce its service and hence its profit), automate and sack some/all of its employees, or, as has been happening, close up shop and deprive its customers, suppliers, employees and its owners of value. Tragic.

[Andrei]

It's an arab rape game called Taharrush:

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2374/german-police-it-s-an-arab-rape-game-called-taharrush-and-now-it-has-come-to-europe.html

 

They are doing what dolphins are doing: sexually frustrated males gang rape isolated females.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Andrei

[Brian]

It's an arab rape game called Taharrush: http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2374/german-police-it-s-an-arab-rape-game-called-taharrush-and-now-it-has-come-to-europe.html

Somewhat similar to "the knockout game" being "played" in the US but from a sexual abuse angle.

[Apech]

Somewhat similar to "the knockout game" being "played" in the US but from a sexual abuse angle.

 

 

What's that Brian?

[Brian]

What's that Brian?

A pattern of quasi-random violence, primarily in inner-city environments, by groups of teens and young adults against largely unsuspecting victims, usually based on race (but sometimes it is "gay bashing" instead of "polar bear hunting").

 

View with discretion:

http://whitegirlbleedalot.com/top-100-black-mob-violence-videos/

[Taoist Texts]

Why do you think he is a 'fuzzy thinker'.  

 

A number of reasons:

 

First, he starts with uncertainty and jumps to certainty:

 

 

I would say that most employers would view hiring such a worker as a losing economic proposition, but they might hire him at $5 an hour. Thus, one effect of the minimum wage law is that of discrimination against the employment of low-skilled workers.

Might=is=fuzzy

 

 

Second, he is concerned with disadvantages to the blacks at the exclusion of considerations for the society as a whole

 

The petition ends with this: “In short, raising the federal minimum to $15 an hour by 2020 will be an effective means of improving living standards for low-wage workers and their families and will help stabilize the economy. The costs to other groups in society will be modest and readily absorbed.”

He does not attempt to refute this argument.

 

 

Third, if the absence of minimum rate will improve the employment of blacks, then it will lead to the replacement of whites with blacks. Would not that be racist towards the whites? He leaves that consideration out.

 

 

Fourth, his examples of racism by minimum wage are inapplicable:

 

Rep. John Cochran, D-Mo., said he had “received numerous complaints in recent months about Southern contractors employing low-paid colored mechanics getting work and bringing the employees from the South.”

If  cheap labor is brought into a US state from another US state, the former state has a right to protect its citizens. Although the said labor happens to be black, there is nothing racist about that.

 

 

And finally he concludes with this epitome of fuzziness:

 

It is incompetence or dishonesty for my fellow economists to deny these two effects of minimum wages: discrimination against employment of low-skilled labor and the lowering of the cost of racial discrimination.

 "discrimination against employment of low-skilled labor "? What is that? Is it a bad thing?

 

" effects of minimum wages: .... lowering of the cost of racial discrimination." Minimum wages lower the cost of racial discrimination? What's a 'cost of racial discrimination'? Is it a good thing?

 

In one word: fuzzy.

[Karl]

A number of reasons:

 

First, he starts with uncertainty and jumps to certainty:

 

 

 

Might=is=fuzzy

 

 

Second, he is concerned with disadvantages to the blacks at the exclusion of considerations for the society as a whole

 

 

He does not attempt to refute this argument.

 

 

Third, if the absence of minimum rate will improve the employment of blacks, then it will lead to the replacement of whites with blacks. Would not that be racist towards the whites? He leaves that consideration out.

 

 

Fourth, his examples of racism by minimum wage are inapplicable:

 

 

If  cheap labor is brought into a US state from another US state, the former state has a right to protect its citizens. Although the said labor happens to be black, there is nothing racist about that.

 

 

And finally he concludes with this epitome of fuzziness:

 

 

 "discrimination against employment of low-skilled labor "? What is that? Is it a bad thing?

 

" effects of minimum wages: .... lowering of the cost of racial discrimination." Minimum wages lower the cost of racial discrimination? What's a 'cost of racial discrimination'? Is it a good thing?

 

In one word: fuzzy.

 

So, you agree with him, but you don't think the argument is strong enough ?

 

[futuredaze]

It seems like there has been a huge increase of far right sentiment on websites like reddit, that I have been on recently.  This could be because now there are more far-right people becoming vocal, but it also seems very possible that more people are starting to gravitate more to the right as a reaction to current events.  It is very unfortunate that these governments don't seem to even be addressing the issues, much less looking for a solution. I find it to be quite perplexing and even alarming.  If they don't do something soon, the situation will escalate and it already seems quite bleak.  Although I am from the U.S., the recent news has made me very distraught, and my heart goes out to Europeans and the refugees who are actually decent people.  I don't believe in bad people, but I do believe that ignorance and dogma can corrupt people into doing terrible things.  At birth, we are all vulnerable to ignorance and dogma as we grow, especially if we are not educated and a lot of stressors trigger escapism into illogical beliefs.  Religion is more than just an opiate of the masses, it is also a psychedelic, or better yet, a deliriant.  Good luck getting people to assimilate when they are already indoctrinated in something rooted in very close-minded dogma.

 

I hope European consciousness can bypass the "respond to one extremely bad decision with an opposite but equally bad decision" principle in the coming years.  I just read today that in Finland there is a group patrolling a city there.  Now, I'd be fine with this in theory, if this group just stuck to people who were being harassed, but it seems all too likely these groups will instigate against people on basis of race alone, without being provoked.  It just goes to show people are unhappy with police, government, and status quo.

 

here is the article about the Finnish group, the "Soldiers of Odin"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-finland-idUSKCN0UR20G20160113?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews

Edited January 13, 2016 by futuredaze

[Karl]

'Far right' is a perjorative these days. Anyone that dares contradict the socialist state is regarded as a Nazi. Yet, rioting, violent socialists are just protecting some poor victims.

[Taoist Texts]

So, you agree with him, but you don't think the argument is strong enough ?

No i dont. The minimum wage is  effectively a tax on the rich and the middle class, to transfer some of their cash to the working poor. The bet is that by stimulating consumption by the poor it will lift all boats. I think it will work.

[Brian]

No i dont. The minimum wage is effectively a tax on the rich and the middle class, to transfer some of their cash to the working poor. The bet is that by stimulating consumption by the poor it will lift all boats. I think it will work.

<shrug>

 

Never has before...

[Michael Sternbach]

As futuredaze said, a perplexing shift to the right is observable on many forums now, including this one. It doesn't take very much to make even supposedly "conscious" people either show their true face, or to modify their views and join some collective cry. This demonstrates once again, how easy it is to manipulate the majority of people.

[Karl]

No i dont. The minimum wage is  effectively a tax on the rich and the middle class, to transfer some of their cash to the working poor. The bet is that by stimulating consumption by the poor it will lift all boats. I think it will work.

 

It's not 'a tax' on the middle class unless you mean the public sector, in which case it's a tax on everyone to whatever degree the state apportions it.

 

As its applied universally it falls on small and larger private businesses. These businesses make decisions about the cost of labour based on their particular business model. As the minimum wage is applies in the least skilled labour areas of their businesses they must decide if they are able to absorb the costs or charge customers extra.

 

Each businessman will act differently. A large company might prefer to pay the extra if they only have a minimal number of low skilled workers, especially in a very competetive market as it prevents new start ups competing. However, we already know that Walmart and other supermarkets have been affected by the change. Walmart has shut stores and laid off staff, in the UK we have newly built supermarkets abandoned, zero hour contracts and customer operated checkouts.

 

Small/medium sized business struggle the most. The result is that they will either automate-this is the common reaction and we see this in banks (cash machines), engineering ( software that allows engineers to accomplish which once took teams of tracers), receptionists (auto answer phones and ring through direct to departments). It means that the low skilled work is devolved into that of the higher paid and automation gets applied to prevent it being too much of a burden on their main job. Small businesses have to shelve plans to take on employees and will decline to expand- which can help the established businesses. Where very low margin businesses operate, they are forced to close up shop. Also, entrepreneurs will shelve businesses they would have started.

 

The damage done is proportional to the amount the wage is hiked over the utility value. A small increase won't make much difference, but as it increases, more and more workers will find themselves unemployed in the longer term. A lot of research has been done on this subject and several papers have found little correlation between job loss and fixed pay. However this is because many employers try and make it work, they don't like sacking people. It can take longer than the research has sampled for people to be made redundant. It also doesn't include businesses that didn't hire, went bust, or failed to start.

 

Coming back to your 'tax on the middle classes'. Walmart has shut several stores in response to the higher wages. Quite obviously Walmart is not the first choice for the well paid person, but for those having to budget. So, if it's a tax, it's often landing on the very people it's supposed to be helping. Not only are they without a job, but they lose access to the low margin, low price businesses that often sustain them. They are left having to travel further at increased cost to other stores, or to pay higher prices at existing stores.

 

All higher wages do is to cut the first rungs out of the employment ladder, reduce competition driving prices higher for everyone including those who can least afford it, prevent businesses expanding, starting or shut them down all together.

[Karl]

As futuredaze said, a perplexing shift to the right is observable on many forums now, including this one. It doesn't take very much to make even supposedly "conscious" people either show their true face, or to modify their views and join some collective cry. This demonstrates once again, how easy it is to manipulate the majority of people.

 

What precisely do you mean by a shift to the right ? Left and right are both collectives only separated by a minor variation in economics -the right has the means of production nominally in private ownership.

 

What we have in Europe is floods of immigrants the vast majority who are young males. Their culture is very different to that of the West and their religion is anti-western. This would be bad enough as something representing a potential flash point, but infact it's a real flashpoint. These people have been welcomed into Europe with a bill footed by the taxpayer. Now it's emerging that not only are some of them bent on jihadism, but that they are molesting and raping women and authorities have been complicit in hushing it up.

 

What we have is liberal values of tolerance finding that reality bites hard. The feminists find their tacit support of open door immigration has backfired badly. Tolerance is really just appeasement in glasses and a beard. People are clearly angry- not of course the high minded academics and champagne socialists, but the average guy/girl on the street who has begun to fear for their lives. The reaction to that pressure isn't 'right wing ' it is the normal reaction of a person who must defend their own life and property against those who would take it.

[Chang]

Tolerance is really just appeasement in glasses and a beard.

 

Now that is a quote worth noting. Thank you.

[Taoist Texts]

As futuredaze said, a perplexing shift to the right is observable on many forums now, including this one. It doesn't take very much to make even supposedly "conscious" people either show their true face, 

The Hero of Cologne: How a 7ft tall hotel doorman and ex-kickboxing champ saved two women from the New Year's sex mob 

• Hotel doorman Ivan Jurcevic, 44, is being hailed as the 'hero of Cologne'
• He took on 'sex mob' of men responsible for the New Year's Eve attacks
• The seven foot tall, 130kg kick boxer has won five world championships 

 

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3395967/The-Hero-Cologne-7ft-tall-hotel-doorman-ex-kickboxing-champ-saved-two-women-New-Year-s-sex-mob.html#ixzz3xDRgXSqf 

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

He shifted to the right.

 

Speaking to MailOnline, Mr Jurcevic said: 'There were four of them, young men in their 20s, speaking Arabic. They told me not to interfere, that the girls were "theirs".

'The girls looked like they worked in a bank, they were wearing jeans and coats, nothing provocative, they were really frightened. I told them to stand behind me.'

'Then the loudest member of the gang came at me with a bottle so I kicked him in the chest and sent him flying. Another came at me so I slapped him across the face and he went over as well.

'The leader drew his finger across his throat and told me he would be back to kill me. I stood my ground and they went on their way.'

 

 

Thats just appalling. How dared he!

[Karl]

One tiny fly in that report. 'They were speaking Arabic'. Did the doorman speak Arabic ? It's easy to assume they spoke both Arabic and French, or the doorman understood Arabic.

 

 

[Marblehead]

<shrug>

 

Never has before...

Yeah, but tomorrow will have different potentials.

[Marblehead]

As futuredaze said, a perplexing shift to the right is observable on many forums now, including this one. It doesn't take very much to make even supposedly "conscious" people either show their true face, or to modify their views and join some collective cry. This demonstrates once again, how easy it is to manipulate the majority of people.

Well, as I have mentioned once before; if you ever find me doing that please let me know as it will mean that I have been lying to someone.

[Marblehead]

It's not 'a tax' on the middle class ...

A flat tax on all income over the poverty level.  No deductions for anything.  How could a system be fairer?

[wilfred]

the problem as i see it and this goes for liberal ideology in general is when you take compassion for individuals to its logical (or illogical) extremes, there's a good chance the population as a whole will be worse off. by this i mean the integrity of the system is liable to break down if policy is based on sympathy and not pragmatism. whether we like it or not capatalism has a proven track record of creating wealth, just based on how we behave as humans. and this shouldn't be confused for the crony capatalism or increasing shift to the left in recent decades.

 

so while this type of thinking is not much compatible a spiritual path i would think none of us here aspire to be politicians or some type of business leaders etc. if you have to make decisions based on the lesser or two evils, you're already in the wrong karmically speaking. but the thing that surprises me (well, not that surprising actually) is the fear of the 'far right' or the right in general, considering how far to the left things have swung lately. there's something called horseshoe theory which is along the lines of the far-left and far-right eventually intersect, both become authoritarian and fascist. remember Hitler came into power under the guise of the 'National Socialist' party.

 

I see the mainstream media as overwhelmingly to the left of the spectrum and pretty far to the left at that. if there's brainwashing going on this is where it's pushing people and it's certainly up for debate what the overall purpose of this might be, conspiracies etc. but the fact it's so deliberate raises suspicion. recently we've seen some examples of censorship when it comes to reporting facts, total omission of covering stories in the name of political correctness, when the bigger issue is how avoiding reality will always jeopardize the integrity of society. much like the result of abadoning a rule of law, which has also been happening in very obvious ways.

 

don't know where this is going, i guess the point is i see the danger of fascism being stronger from the left side of the spectrum. i see it as highly unlikely we'll swing to the far-right based on the the level of information available to us nowadays. and when Donald Trump is literally Hitler, it shows you peoples idea of what the far-right actually is has been heavily skewed. the left is far more insidious based on the fact they use 'rational discussion' and appeals to sympathy in order to push an agenda of censorship and right-think/wrong-think. people strongly to the left also have this penchant for lying when hypocrisy or holes in their arguments are exposed, with much of their empathy being feigned, based off projections and the need to feel morally superior.

 

i'm not big on politics myself, never voted, but do feel we need to move to the right for any kind of hope of a free, productive, society to be maintained. we need to be pragmatic about what is happening in the world and ways in which we can create genuine wealth (life support). there are too many narcissistic, narrative following, free speech squashing people on the other side. if we keep going to the left, next economic/financial crash we're heading straight for a socialist, authoritarian state, 1984 dystopia etc.

Edited January 14, 2016 by wilfred