nothing is gained or lost

[Brian]

 

If it is then there is no science and we can't know anything for certain. That is what you are saying because we have had that conversation.

Yes, we have had this conversation but, no, that is not what I'm saying. Reiterating a false dichotomy still doesn't make it legitimate and reality still isn't drawn in black ink.

[Marblehead]

 

ok,  and another example: having faith in doubts until proven otherwise... thus the often half baked connotation "that faith is blind" is false.

I guess my definition of "faith" is too limited for most.

[Marblehead]

Where am I talking about faith?

 

I simply said to replace it with "experience"... those with experience have need for the crutch of faith.

 

Until you have actual experience, in let's say spiritual pursuits, then it may be hard to even suggest or discuss such issues.

A typo perhaps? 

 

"... those with experience have NO need for the crutch of faith."

[Karl]

Yes, we have had this conversation but, no, that is not what I'm saying. Reiterating a false dichotomy still doesn't make it legitimate and reality still isn't drawn in black ink.

 

That was predictable.

[Karl]

iron is not gold, use the salt test

 

I'm sure there is a point to that comment but I'm damned if I have a clue what it is.

[Marblehead]

I suggest we think outside the box now and then instead of cornering ourselves inside it with un-flexible attachments to our versions of truisms.  

But that is so satisfying to me!

[Marblehead]

I'll add that science is hugely faith-based. Many very bright people are in denial about this but the self-reflective scientist comes to understand it. I think this helps to explain it is not uncommon (in my observation and studies) for such people to rediscover spirituality as life progresses.

With regret I have to agree with you.  Many theories are created and the creator has faith in their theory even though they have no supporting data whatever, just their math work.

 

But I'm not really trying to discredit faith, I'm just saying that if one's life is complete they have no reason to have faith is something that has not yet been proven to be so.

[Marblehead]

iron is not gold, use the salt test

Wasn't that lead instead of iron?

[3bob]

nope, lead does not rust

[Stosh]

.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Stosh

[3bob]

yea technically you are right, I was thinking of iron/steel ships sunken in salt water and how fast the compounds in ocean water eat away at those metals. (compared to no doing so for gold)

[Marblehead]

My thoughts were on alchemy.  Lead and gold have about the same properties.  Change lead into gold.

[Stosh]

yea technically you are right, I was thinking of iron/steel ships sunken in salt water and how fast the compounds in ocean water eat away at those metals. (compared to no doing so for gold)

.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Stosh

[3bob]

MH, you were thinking of alchemy, how transformative

[Stosh]

.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

MH, you were thinking of alchemy, how transformative

Yeah, I know a little about them guys.