Mercury

[RigdzinTrinley]

I met a palm reader and astrologer(jyotish) recently

 

Interesting Indian fellow - knows how to make yantras, so a tantrika as well, anyway...

 

I would like to know a bit more about mercury in this context- what ever comes to mind - the magician and metatron threads inspired me to ask, thanks Brian

[RigdzinTrinley]

Whoops how did that happen?

[Brian]

Double-posts occur sometimes on the forum when the system "gets lost" or times-out. If it happens on the first post in a new thread, the result is duplicate threads.

 

Perhaps a kindly Mod will hide this one and allow the other to remain?

[Mandrake]

I met a palm reader and astrologer(jyotish) recently

 

Interesting Indian fellow - knows how to make yantras, so a tantrika as well, anyway...

 

I would like to know a bit more about mercury in this context-

 

The jyotish system is quite a bit different from the Western, from my limited understanding. So perhaps ask in the Hindu sub-forum?

[RigdzinTrinley]

Well the jyotish side of things I already know a little about from the palm reader

 

I'm actually interested in the western system

[Apech]

Do you mean mercury in the context of palm reading - or mercury generally?

[9th]

 

Mercury is the symbolic key to alchemical processes.  In india the creation of solidified mercury (as above) has been practiced since ancient times.

 

Mercury (latin) or Hermes (greek) is the patron god of ancient alchemy, amongst many other things - although as a higher force, it is recognized to be a universal principal.

 

 

"Among the gods, they most worship Mercury (Odin). There are numerous images of him; they declare him the inventor of all arts, the guide for every road and journey, and they deem him to have the greatest influence for all money-making and traffic. After him they set Apollo, Mars, Jupiter, and Minerva. Of all these deities they have almost the same idea as all other nations: Apollo drives away diseases, Minerva supplies the first principles of arts and crafts, Jupiter hods the empire of heaven, Mars controls wars. ...The Gauls affirm that they are all descended form a common father, Dis, and say that this is the tradition of the Druids"

 

The cardinal doctrine which they seek to teach is that souls do not die, but after death pass from one to another... they have many discussions as touching the stars and their movement, the size of the universe, the order of nature, the strength and the powers of the immortal gods..."

 

- Julius Caesar

 

 

Caesar said the Druids worshipped Mercury, to whom they erected 'many images'; 'Mercury' is the name of a feeble Roman version of the god known to the Greeks as Hermes, Thoth to Egyptians and Taautus to Phoenicians; the Greeks accorded Hermes the surname of 'Atlantiades', perhaps preserving a memory of a following in the west; the Druids held oak — and miseltoe which grows on it — particularly sacred (Greek Dryidae, 'oak-priests'); the antiquarian William Lisle Bowles (1762-1850) reckoned that Avebury Stone Circle was temple sacred to sun god Cronus-Saturn, but had then become centre of Druidism, whose god was Hermes; several ancient Ermine Roads in Britain are said to be named after Hermes, protector of the highways and winged messenger of the gods; the north-south Ermine Street was the MI of its day; an example of stacked-stone megalithic statuary on Dartmoor is Bowerman's Nose; this is believed to be a representation of Hermes, complete with a stone to indicate the hat that he is traditionally depicted as wearing.

 

Hermes was one of the gods of the Eleusinian Mysteries. He was the god who escorted Persephone to earth in spring and returned her to the underworld in autumn.

"The story told at the Mysteries of the Mother [Demeter at Eleusis] about Hermes and the ram I know but do not relate."

 

- Pausanias, Description of Greece 2. 3. 4 (trans. Jones) (Greek travelogue C2nd A.D.)

 

[Brian]

I met a palm reader and astrologer(jyotish) recently

 

Interesting Indian fellow - knows how to make yantras, so a tantrika as well, anyway...

 

I would like to know a bit more about mercury in this context- what ever comes to mind - the magician and metatron threads inspired me to ask, thanks Brian

BTW, I am reaping a harvest in this thread, too.

[FraterUFA]

Hi Brian,

 

I'm afraid that answer is complicated because the concept of Mercury has been used in many different - often contradictory - ways. Even if one limits the scope to classical alchemy, different authors assign multiple meanings to the word. Sometimes even the same author uses it in different ways. 

 

There are of course other fields, such as astrology and magic, which assign their own meanings to Mercury. IMO it causes considerable confusion to try and reconcile those with the various meanings found in alchemy. So I will stick to that.

 

Mercury is said to be a principle which comes from the combination of Air and Water. These are both volatile elements, thus Mercury is exceedingly volatile. Its opposite, Sulphur, is said to unite (or result from the uniting of) Earth and Fire, the fixed elements. Salt serves as the vehicle for Mercury and Sulphur.

 

Practically speaking, Mercury is said to be the Anima Mundi, sometimes defined as the "world soul", other times as the animating spirit of the world (I am of the latter opinion, based on practical lab experience. I hold that the world soul is better represented by Sulphur). This is where it begins to get complicated. This principle is exceedingly volatile and cannot be seen in its purest form, yet it is present practically everywhere. It has a profound uplifting effect on human consciousness. It is an "accelerator" of physical processes, as well as a solvent. It can be considered a universal substance, though it is determined in degrees: the vegetable, mineral and animal kingdoms each have their own mercuries.

 

Mercury can mean many different things. There is a plant mercury, which few know. There are both red and white mercuries and these are probably the most carefully guarded secrets in alchemy. There is a vegetable mercury, which can exist in different degrees of power and there are mineral mercuries, which are poisonous.

 

Mercury can be considered the animating spirit behind life. It is powerless however without the growing nature (in other words, the principle spirit which lies behind the development of physical structure)... wherever there is one, there must be the other. And when these two natures depart a being, the process of death set in. This is brought about by the two principles of decline and suffering, aided by two corruptible substances. 

 

There is common mercury (the ordinary metal), various mercuries in the three kingdoms, and Philosophical Mercury. Many men have lived out their entire lives and wasted fortunes searching for that last menstruum. It is said to be a universal medicine, capable of restoring all things to their highest state of health and potential, whether they be animal, mineral or vegetable.

 

So... the answer is not simple. Generally it represents a highly volatile gas or liquid which serves as the animating principle behind life, but the specifics depend on context.

 

Best,

UFA

[Brian]

Thank you for offering this perspective, UFA. There is much to chew on.

[Nungali]

Since there are many different ways of looking at Mercury's function, I will put down  a perspective for one of its functions - it may not be one of the norms .

 

In my system of 'astro-psychology'  I image the unconscious as the Moon  with triangle of inner planets around it Mars  Venus Mercury  .... these represent the three basic psychological drives and, here, relate to  Fire Water Air.   Mars Venus is the fire water polarity base line and Mercury is the mediating Air apex .  So, although Mercury has a regulating and communicating aspect within this model of the unconscious, the apex penetrates 'up and out' and links to the Sun ( ego consciousness).  So, again, Mercury traverses the two worlds; the whole bases of the system (and many others) is linking or joining the Sun and Moon, and this is done by the communication between the unconscious and the conscious via Mercury. 

 

So its placement in the chart and its aspects to the other planets  define how this link is worked and managed  - and how the Mars Venus polarity works.  In many cases, relationship, for example, it is easy to get sucked into the Mars Venus dynamic. IMO it is much better to operate from the Mercurial position ,   it has the ability to be more responsive than the other two, who seem more reactive. 

 

It also seems one of the better 'God forms' to be influenced by.   And it is a great regulator for focusing other more 'far out' energies and bringing them centred and to earth ;  eg,  I have a very strong Neptune in my chart, it seems pretty much the chart ruler, yet it is balanced by a good solid aspect to Mercury  ... just as well , otherwise I would be some kind of crazy mystic .... getting involved in all sorts of fantasies ! 

 

Edited January 10, 2016 by Nungali

[RigdzinTrinley]

Communication, or getting information from one source to another comes up a lot in the answers of who or what is this principle (which was one major facet of my personality - easy to make friends, hard to forget even if met just once, public speaking)

 

He also mentioned: education, healing and arts

 

With a focus on spiritual education

 

How is the western system seeing those correspondences? Art and travel popped up in 9ths post (astrologerji also said I will travel a lot and figured out I was an artist before but move more towards spirituality now)

 

(He also said to be more diplomatic in my love relationships mars/Venus and not just speak my mind - sounds like what nungali said as well)

 

Pretty similar so far

[Nungali]

Speak you mind, after regulation ( thought  > response )  from Mercury   ... unless you like fireworks , then speak straight away (Mars) from your emotional or unconscious reactions  -  or just take all that reaction on as  ' significant'  and wear it, or rail against it ... Venus  ( or better still,  claim  " I cant help it  "  

 

Relationships with out Mercury can get very  ......  ' 3 of a perfect pair '      

 

 

 

 

[RigdzinTrinley]

Yes Nungali, I started understanding the astrologers words in that way after reading your post from before

 

So Mercury on some level sounds like what governs intellect?

 

Which chackra correspondence does mercury have usually?

 

Throat? Third-eye?

 

Element is air/water (Frater UFA mentioned that with regards to alchemy, same is true for astrology?)

 

I would guess it to be air - colour green, hence the jewel emerald (at least in the Indian system)

[RigdzinTrinley]

Yep thought so:

 

Emerald's lush green has appeased souls and exited imaginations since ancient times. Its name comes from the Greek word for green, "Samaragdus". Mercury's Jyotish gem is the Emerald. It is one of the great five gems, known in Indian jargon as "pancharatna".

 

Mercury is impartial, evocative, delightful, and youthful. He is famous for ready wisdom, and the power of communication. Related to our respiratory system, nervous system, and speech, Mercury makes people more skillful, clever and delicate. He is shown riding a lion with an elephant's trunk which points towards the dual nature of Mercury, readily apparent in those with Gemini ascendant. The lion symbolizes wisdom and the Elephant memory. In his hands Mercury has a bow and arrow to shoot his target, a disc for Vishnu, and a conch for liberation.

 

And...

 

Dosha: VATA

 

element: air

 

signs: Gemini, Virgo, Libra, Capricorn, Aquarius

 

planets: Mercury, Saturn, Venus (secondary), Rahu.

[Michael Sternbach]

Yes Nungali, I started understanding the astrologers words in that way after reading your post from before

 

Well, I'm not Nungali, but he and I have a long standing tradition of answering post for one another.

 

So Mercury on some level sounds like what governs intellect?

 

Yes, definitely.

 

Which chackra correspondence does mercury have usually?

 

Throat? Third-eye?

 

There are a number of different schemes to connect the planets with the chakras. The one I (and a number of Indian astrologers) favour, is this:

 

 

Here, the planets are arranged in the order of the so called domicile scheme, which is basic to all astrology. Their correlations with the chakras make a lot of sense this way. Mercury falls on the throat chakra - both this chakra and the planet represent the area of communication.

 

 

Element is air/water (Frater UFA mentioned that with regards to alchemy, same is true for astrology?)

 

I would guess it to be air - colour green, hence the jewel emerald (at least in the Indian system)

 

Mercury as one of the three alchemical principle belongs to air and water, but we must be careful not to simply equate this with its attributions as a planet.

 

In the oldest extant Hellenistic texts, the planets are imbued with the Aristotelian qualities rather than with the elements per say. Thus, Mars is hot and dry, Venus cold and moist, Jupiter hot and moist, Saturn cold and dry. These attributions translate to the Aristotelian elements in a straightforward manner, but the first one who did this explicitly was (to my knowledge) Raymond Lull (1235-1315). Mercury's elemental attribution remains problematic, because he (always being the odd planet) combines at least three of the qualities. Despite this, he is described as "earthy" in some old texts (which happens to tie in with Virgo, one of the two signs he has reign over), but a better view might be to see him as representing the "fifth element", the quintessence, aether or akasha.

[RigdzinTrinley]

Thank you micheal

 

The elements as understood in the tantrik traditions are principles as well (in their coarser form)

 

Fire is ripening

Water is binding

Earth is solidifying

Air is moving

Space is accommodating (best translation for what space "does" I could come up with on the spot)

 

In their pure form they are the consorts of the five Buddha families

 

For example water is Mamaki - that's why a tantrika is damaging his samayas when he/she sees water as simple water and not the deity

 

Side note over....

Edited January 11, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[RigdzinTrinley]

Aaaaand Micheal,

 

Why you prefer the space (akash) element over the others? I didn't really understand that part

Edited January 11, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[Michael Sternbach]

I am not very familiar with the Indian system. In the classical Greek view, however, the quintessence, although not really considered an element as such, indeed holds a special position amongst them, binding the proper elements together. It is placed in the centre of the Aristotelian cross - at once the origin and the summation of the four elements that form the manifest world. Mercury as the odd ball mixing various qualities seems to be a good match for that in the planetary realm.

 

Referring to the alchemical Mercury again, it is also no far stretch to see it as particularly connected to quintessence or prime matter. There is indeed a view expressed by some early authors, that all of matter boils down to Mercury alone, although its extension to the Mercury/Sulfur theory, and later to the Mercury/Sulfur/Salt theory, gained considerable acceptance as well.

[Nungali]

Well, I'm not Nungali, but he and I have a long standing tradition of answering post for one another.

 

Thanks  

 

... that gives me more time to achieve my own work. 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by Nungali

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Actually there is not much difference between Western and Indian treatments of Mercury because they are based on the same Hellenistic materials, which in turn come from Babylonian/Chaldean ideas.  In short Indian horoscopic astrology is largely based on Western astrology.
 
You can check this out in the Wikipedia articles on the Yavanajataka, which is now little messy because while it introduces some new research by Bill Mak on dating the Yavanajataka it then continues with material that looks like it is based on David Pingree's original earlier dating.  Be that as it may even Mak has to confess that, ". . . there has been no explicit description of the planets or the Zodiac in the entire Vedic corpus . . ." (JOURNAL OF INDIAN AND BUDDHIST STUDIES, Volume LXII Number 3, p. 1102).  Beyond that the discussion is interesting, but short and so I cannot say more.  I have only recently discovered the reference to Mak's work, though I have known about the Yavanajataka and Pingree's translation since the early 1980s and I will be looking more closely into the issue as I have time.
 
For an extremely interesting discussion of the Babylonian/Chaldean origins of Greek/Hellenistic astrology you can't beat Jean Seznec The Survival of the Pagans Gods, where, in the early part of the book, he argues very capably that the characters of the astrological Planets reflect the character of the Babylonian/Chaldean Gods and not the Greco-Roman Gods for which they are otherwise named.  He then continues to chart the course of their survival through the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, something which will come as quite a surprise to the modern neo-pagan.  It did to me and I'm not even a neo-pagan.  I've always considered myself more of a born again heathen.

[RigdzinTrinley]

Thank you ZYD,

 

In some way, even without really knowing astrology (western or jyotish) I felt they are closely related

 

.....................

 

I was thinking about astrology and it feels more and more like a form of ancient therapy to me, a way to balance the psyche and how the psyche manifests

 

(Sorry for over simplifying, I don't even know the ABC of astrology)

 

Then ZYD, Nungali and others also mentioned planetary magic which I feel the Hindus are working with aaaaalot - in different forms

 

A very simple form is connected with shani dev (Saturn)

 

On Saturday people offer black moong dhal and mustard oil to a murti of shani dev, close by is also a little pool of mustard oil and you're supposed to make a demonic face on the surface reflection

 

You do this to send back curses, insults and other negative wishes of spirits or humans

 

Its very common to do that on Saturday and if I don't space out I do it too

 

There are much more elaborate magical ceremonies connected with the 9planets like during navratra (where the main forms of shakti are worshipped) those rituals take usually 5-9days

 

Mostly about success wealth health etc in the coming year

 

Then there are the personally crafted yantras that you wear in a special bracelet connected with your planets

 

The different teachings on jewels and metals that you should wear

 

Its very pervasive still in this culture

 

Sidenote over

Edited January 12, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[Orion]

I only know about Mercury in the context of western astrology. Mercury is the planet of communication, the mind, the logic, the intellect. It's quick witted and processes information clearly. It's also about how information is expressed. The God Mercury rules celestial discourse and the ability of all the other Gods to transmit their Divine revelations to humanity. It is the messenger.

Its dual rulers are Gemini and Virgo, each representing different aspects of Mercury.

Gemini rules the 3rd house of primary communication ("I communicate" in the personal evolution), and short journeys. Mercury in Gemini is the literal definition of mercurial, free spirited and light natured, not wanting to be weighed down by seriousness all that much. It's the AIR aspect of Mercury, in that it's less attached to where the thoughts go and simply enjoys exploring them. It's also the twins, which means Geminis tend to see all sides even if they can't decide which side they're on. They can be very indecisive and two-faced for this reason, and moody. It's a very cerebral disposition for this planet. They make good salespeople for this reason because they can convince themselves and others of pretty much anything. This manifestation of Mercury is very curious, jovial, and inquisitive. They also tend to be pretty ungrounded, heh. Because the 3rd house is earlier in the astrological evolution, this aspect of Mercury is more child like.

Virgo rules the 6th house of health and work, and responsibility. Virgos are the organizational, analytical and educational types, so they tend to make good teachers or systems people. I always say that if you need your filing system reorganized, just invite a Virgo over because they revel in the most tedious things that others have no patience for. (I used to have a Virgo roommate who volunteered to sew all my clothes for me -- hell yeah!) This is the small, fine details aspect of Mercury. Virgo is the more critical aspect of Mercury. The 5th house is ruled by Leo which is "I create", which is all about me, me, me and look what I can do! Look at my creation, isn't it the most awesome thing ever? The next level, Virgo, says, "Just because you made it doesn't necessarily make it good. It has to have real-world applicable value, and make sense." Virgos are the beginning of structural analysis and critical mind. Virgo is the EARTH aspect of Mercury, which brings ideas into practical reality.

Hermes the messenger is a good way to illustrate Mercury... from the ethereal, airy, abstract higher realms he comes down to Earth to deliver important information.

Because Mercury governs both these signs, it is mutable in nature and changeable. Gemini is mutable air and Virgo is mutable earth. They have a flexibility which the fixed and cardinal signs lack. It also means, for better or worse, they tend to take on the qualities of the people they're with or the environments they're in.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Orion

[Nungali]

Thank you ZYD,

 

In some way, even without really knowing astrology (western or jyotish) I felt they are closely related

 

.....................

 

I was thinking about astrology and it feels more and more like a form of ancient therapy to me, a way to balance the psyche and how the psyche manifests

 

yes, that is a most interesting aspect.   The model I use is like the basic imprint , the hardware,  the planets are always in the same positions in relation to each other on the map  ( so we all have an Ego, Id, Super consciousness 'inner and outer gate' , etc. on the map ) but the natal arrangements create variant pathways and energies - that is how 'the psyche' manifests and how 'one's psyche' manifests within the map.  Then one can go about balancing it. 

 

 

 

(Sorry for over simplifying, I don't even know the ABC of astrology)

 

Then ZYD, Nungali and others also mentioned planetary magic which I feel the Hindus are working with aaaaalot - in different forms

 

A very simple form is connected with shani dev (Saturn)

 

On Saturday people offer black moong dhal and mustard oil to a murti of shani dev, close by is also a little pool of mustard oil and you're supposed to make a demonic face on the surface reflection

 

I made dhal out of black moong once ....   I can understand the need to make a demonic face after tasting it . 

 

 

You do this to send back curses, insults and other negative wishes of spirits or humans

 

Its very common to do that on Saturday and if I don't space out I do it too

 

There are much more elaborate magical ceremonies connected with the 9planets like during navratra (where the main forms of shakti are worshipped) those rituals take usually 5-9days

 

Mostly about success wealth health etc in the coming year

 

Then there are the personally crafted yantras that you wear in a special bracelet connected with your planets

 

The different teachings on jewels and metals that you should wear

 

A type of 'yantra' can be constructed from planetary magic squares by simply consecutively joining the numbers in the square with a line, coloring the figure with the planetary colours in question ... and in some cases, the related jewels and metals were stitched on as well ... the end result is like a big ' yantra - thangka ' . 

 

The Sun;

 

 

 

 

Part of a robe / cape  ;

 

 

 

Ben Franklin was a genius at constructing them ... straight out of his head on to paper, just writing the numbers down in columns like a printer .............

 

....................

 

..............  

 

Here is his 'Square for Mercury'  ....  join the dots ( draw a line from 1 to 2 to 3 to ....  64 then back to 1 )  to see the ' mandala '  .

 

 

 

 

 

Its very pervasive still in this culture

 

Sidenote over

 

 

Its still pervasive in a way here ... even straight jewelers will talk about ones birth stone or jewel. 

[Nungali]

Ummm ... yeah, I got my natal Mercury at 21 deg Gemini   (and Venus nearby at 11 Gemini )