Asylum seekers SUE Germany for not paying them benefits FAST ENOUGH

[Apech]

I'm not.

 

Ooooh you are awful, but I like you

[Chang]

Bloody Foreigners.

 

Here's something to cheer everybody up.......

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by Chang

[silent thunder]

Nice one Chang!

*bow of respect*

[shanlung]

 

OP: rubbish, sensationalist reporting.

 

Wer lesen kann liegt klar im Vorteil

 

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/asylbewerber-klagen-belasten-zunehmend-verwaltungsgerichte-a-1048364.html

 

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/asylklagen-an-verwaltungsgerichten-auf-hoechststand-13755084.html

 

 

You are entitiled to read what you want to read from the organisations that you want to read from.

But I am not entitiled to read what I read?

Or is that hoary old practise of killing the messenger of unwanted news back in place here?

And for that matter, since when what you quoted made what I wrote to be rubbish and sensational?

 

 

After all, not only some of my posts burned    opps Hidden!.  I was slapped with a 3 days ban for being a xenoaeiou from an

entity who cannot even claim one Muslim friend when I have 25 including 2 imams.  Maybe I can ask a couple of my Muslim friends to be his friend.  He will claim other reasons.  But I will address that in due time.  For all I know, He might not be happy with the Dao or the De that I cannot define which might be contrary to what he believed that they are.  He might be very unhappy with all the stuff I had written on Martial Arts which might have rubbed him the wrong way.

 

 

Did the OP read the story?

 

These are not people complaining because they don't have enough TV's.

 

They have no food, no shelter, winter is coming in, and they are in front of many more people in their situation (who would be helped by resolution also). This includes children.

 

No country should let anybody in if they're going to literally make them lay there and freeze hungry on the sidewalk. That is ridiculous. They have a perfect right to use the systems that the country has already put in place for trying to bring attention to the problem, to bring attention to it. That doesn't make them bad guys, it makes them people trying to defend themselves and their people from a horrible situation.

 

I would also like to mention that they came from the middle east and it's near Winter in Germany. I moved from southern coastal California to Connecticut one Winter and thought I was gonna die, the climate change was so hard on my body. So their shelter situation probably seems even more traumatic.

 

Edited to add: I suspect the reality is that Germany is just having their own internal problems. The higher-up politicians want to take in more and more people, but those who have to care for and provide resources for those people are being overwhelmed, and the immigrants are basically trapped in the middle of the internal country's dispute.

 

Try to find the time to read this

 

Inside the “Refugee Centers:” A Worker Speaks

 

“They came to me and demanded that I immediately set them up with an apartment, a fancy car, and a really good job. When I told them this was not possible, they would become loud and very aggressive. An Afghan threatened to kill himself there and then [if I did not help him with these demands].

 

“And a number of Syrians and Afghanis declared that they will go on hunger strike until I’d help them to move to another place. An Arab shouted at another colleague, ‘We behead you!’”

 

Even more nasty stuff but you read for yourself

 

> Governments began because 

 

Won't dispute any of that. All a done deal no point to debating anyway (though I generally agree).

 

> If people wish to come to a country to settle, to be a productive, independent, law abiding citizen then that's fine. It is quite another thing for the Government to force on the population a large group of refugees and then expect the population to pay for them. 

 

I agree but I suppose part of me feels like "well then they shouldn't have a socialist government," but even most the capitalist governments are so infested with socialism at this point there's probably no getting around that. Any situation where the people have agreed to let the government decide who is supported with the money a limited set of people earn is going to lead to that. Maybe they're war refugees in the popular-now but they're illegal immigrants or other "supported" people in other situations.

 

I'm not actually for letting people starve in the streets -- my capitalism doesn't extend nearly that far (or rather, I believe in a heavy social side to things that is NOT from government but sadly doesn't seem to exist without it, as if humans cannot organize themselves to do what is appropriate without some parental force, so it ends up in government which is an inappropriate mess as a result) -- but I do agree that each 'country' (yes I am using that as an Entity again) should decide "who" it's going to host and especially pay to feed.

 

Apparently in Europe that's "everyone."

 

In the US we take in a crazy number of people but through many different categories, and the whole thing is a study in incompetence in many areas -- there are literally up to 24 YEARS delay in 'processing' in some areas even when everything goes right (this to include getting children under 18 brought over to family, who may be young grandparents by the time they arrive!).

 

> No one is forced to pay in the sense that a 'country' must take in refugees as some form of duty/punishment. 

 

I agree that's the way it should be -- my argument so far to friends is we owe nobody anything but our own people, as tragic as any situation may be (as if tons of situations haven't been tragic for the last century). There is no cosmic law that says anybody 'has to' take in refugees. And we already DO take in so many people -- we actually take in a number that is way out of proportion to the % of our population compared to other countries.

 

But Europe is basically socialist, and even before this latest period had already made it clear they welcome immigration without clear numbers (or anything enforced it seems), so they got themselves into that mess. I feel sorry for their people. I totally see their point of view.

 

However that doesn't free one from observing that when people are let en masse INTO a place, then letting them starve and freeze with their children on the sidewalk while the people in-country vs. their government argue amongst themselves about what to do with them, is not a good situation either. They might have been better off shuffled back to the Long Walk to any place that would at the least keep them sheltered for the winter and fed. It is not their fault either. The time to decide whether people should be accepted is sometime prior to their actually starving on your sidewalk.

 

 

Let us get one thing clear.

 

There are 50 to 60 million displaced people on this planet.

 

The focus and $$$$ all for those 1.5 million invaders of Europe meant the remaining 50++ millions are forgotten and thrown into the dustbins.

 

There are about 1 million Rohingyas displaced and refugees.  A crisis created by British Colonial overlords in Burma when they imported hundreds of thousands of Muslims into Burma against the wishes of the people there.  Rohingyas poured oil on fire when they used firearms to attack Burmese in WW2 seeking to break away to form their own Muslim  country with land carved out of Burma.  Now they are lamenting and wondering why Burmese hate them and Aung San cannot speak up for them.

 

About 800,000 Nepalis are refugees in their own country when their houses and entire villages collapsed in two major earthquakes last year.  The West donated more tents to those few thousand Calais gansters/invaders so that they can stay warm while trying to invade UK then they did to all in Nepal.  Money promised to Nepal dried up as Europe bend over backwards to give their own invaders hot soup hot meals and warm houses.

 

10 to 20 million refugees in Africa from the troubles there

 

About 6 million refugees still in Syria and Iraq and in Turkey.

 

Those did not run all the way to Germany and Austra and Noway and Sweden to get away from the war.

But they are all now left stranded as aid money for even basic meals dried up while those que jumpers in Europe get their begging bowls filled.

 

Not that will be enough as they go form rampaging gangs to taharrush and the rob as they pleased without the police there able  to catch them.

 

12 to 13 years old syrians on trains groping and assaulting girls and women.

 

Let us remember 15 year old   Arminas Pileckas who was stabbed to death from the back by a 14 year old Syrian boy.

That 15 year old was trying to protect the girls in his class from being groped by that Syrian boy slapping him.  The Syrian father claimed his syrian son is now the victim and had to kill Arminas to defend his honor.  Honor of the girls dont exist for those Syrian invaders.  For all I know, it might well be the Syrian father that instigated the killing, or it might just be the son own initiative.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/15/15-year-old-boy-was-stabbed-to-death-by-migrant-because-he-was-protecting-young-girl-from-sex-assault/

 

What about the joke in Koln a couple months earlier.   A welcome party for those traumatise refugees on a boat ended up with the refugees taharusshing all the german female hosts on the boat.  News of that horror suppressed for the the poliitcal purpose of getting more invaders into Europe

 

MIGRANT SEX ATTACK 'COVER-UP': Welcome party for Cologne refugees turned into mass groping

 

Germany is now running so short of money that Germany proposed a  tax on all of Europe to build fences to prevent those invaders coming over.

 

I never support fences and barb wires.  Many innocent wildlife were caught and killed by those barb wires.  

 

I am still trying to figure out how the fence be build in the middle of the Med Sea.

 

 

A few  year ago, I felt  Geert Wilders   was a very dangerous man.  I have changed my mind and felt more politicians in Europe should be like him.  Europeans should support people like Geert Wilders.

 

This is a depressing chapter for me as I felt I am a lone voice here.  I do have better things to do with my life. 

 

I back off and come back a year later to see if folks here are still welcoming those invaders   tramatised refugees with counselling and hot soup and hot meals.

[Chang]

Good to see you back old boy as your posts are certainly never dull.

 

As a lone voice it would be wise not to get yourself banned. It is possible to state your point without going that step too far and thereby fashioning the rod for your own back.

[Junko]

Only daoist discussion.....this forum is NOT about to discuss politics. Do you have to do this go somewhere else.

[Chang]

Only daoist discussion.....this forum is NOT about to discuss politics. Do you have to do this go somewhere else.

 

Not so I am afraid. This is the "Off Topic" section of the forum and the Dao Bums is a broad church.

[Michael Sternbach]

Well, it depends. Political discussion is okay if it incorporates Daoist or generally spiritual points of view. But yes, we are no political discussion forum in an ordinary sense.

[redcairo]

This is one of the topics I find most challenging to my spiritual life.

 

Once I was in a meditation (I do 'imaginal' meditations) in a place akin to several hundred years ago, and some soldiers were planning to go burn one structure, kill the people, and then take another. I was weary, and I said, why do I care. I cannot stop all these people myself. Why is it even my business? And 1st of 4 (part of my spiritual structure) tells me, "It is ALWAYS your business if this kind of energy is in your reality." Now, what qualifies as "in" my reality is a question I guess -- Germany is not in my reality unless I really reach out for it. Germany could cease to exist and I wouldn't even know unless someone posted about it on facebook. I probably wouldn't be affected in the slightest by it happening, either, except I'd miss a couple handsome actors. So really, it's not "in" my reality. Then again, I feel concern and a reaching-out for it, not just in Germany but the issue over all, including the issue as it unfolds in my own country, which to varying degrees IS in my life closely. So albeit indirectly it becomes something I care about.

 

But then I ask myself again, what am I supposed to do about it. Why care. That's why I don't read, watch, listen to the news -- I can't fix it. (Besides, I did a study once, and the news is predictive, not reportive. That realization was horribly disconcerting for me and I've not trusted anything about it since.) But i care about this topic, and I ask myself why. 

 

Is it something in my metaphysical makeup that needs working out, that is parallel with this kind of energy? 

 

Are the issues of the planet reflective of our inner selves, the same way the issues of the cosmos are?

 

In the way that Feng Shui is stronger from the perspective of the whole-house vs. one room, are political incidents like the feng shui big-house perspective of the energy of dynamic events? The tarot are the dynamics -- like the table of elements are qualities actually, the tarot are like a table of elements that are dynamics -- if we were to use "current events" as a focus in our meditations, would this actually have some specifically useful purpose I wonder? Is "the nature of mass events" partly this -- and would it be more powerful, actually, to do meditative work based on those larger structures of energy?

 

I sometimes am a little lost as to how to "integrate" the world that is spiritual and mystical for me -- which is nearly everything, except my job (getting help for it can be those things, but otherwise it is pretty mundane :-)) -- and the raw energies of our outer reality. I am drawn to and a little bit fascinated by issues like this one, by the oppression and imminent breaking that is coming related to larger-government actions (and other side effects, like American politics which show clear signs of events that would likely never happen except in this kind of timeframe and situation). 

 

Sitting quietly and being "passive" has never actually been something I'm good with -- that is simply not my road, I think, the quietly and calmly for awhile sure, the passive not so much -- I believe in the Zen of truly "Living" capital-L and interacting with the reality that we went to all the trouble to manifest within. But how to make spiritually-sane decisions in situations where it seems like a little bit of everyone and everything is wrong? Where the situations are so far gone it seems like we're just going to need a few comets to drop us to the stone age and start over and hope it's better next round?

 

 

P.S. Yes I know I did not actually posit much of anything there (except that elements are qualities and tarot are dynamics). It's mostly just a rant of confusion. Sorry, I guess that's where I happen to be concerning the "integration" of inner and outer worlds in this area.

Edited January 20, 2016 by redcairo

[Chang]

Well, it depends. Political discussion is okay if it incorporates Daoist or generally spiritual points of view. But yes, we are no political discussion forum in an ordinary sense.

 

I do believe that you need to explain yourself here.

 

Off Topic

We are a loose knit group with varied interests. Feel free to discuss anything on your mind. Forum rules apply.

 

Is it your intention to impose "topic cencorship" of subjects with which you do not feel comfortable?

[Michael Sternbach]

Of course not. But I see now what Dawei meant when he warned me that as a moderator, I would have a target on my back. First off, it was a reply to Junko's comment, which I didn't quote because that function doesn't work with my spare cellphone, and I didn't expect anybody to set a post inbetween while I was writing the few lines. I agreed to her insofar I also don't see The Dao Bums as a suitable place for discussions about recommendable stocks, sports bets and politics that don't tie in with something remotely spiritual/philosophical whatsoever. But I hardly see that happen, plus: That's just my personal opinion.

[Marblehead]

Yes Michael, you will always be a target whenever you warn a member, ask a member to edit their post, or just even become combative in a discussion that can be personally emotional for any of the members in the discussion.  That's just the way life is.  Positions of authority will always be a target unless the person with the authority never makes a decision.

 

But decisions are required as that is Sean's wish.  Administrators always have a hard time too because they have to select members and give them Moderator authority with the confidence that they will be able to handle the pressure.

 

Hang in there and try to not put yourself into a compromised position.

[dawei]

Only daoist discussion.....this forum is NOT about to discuss politics. Do you have to do this go somewhere else.

 

Not so I am afraid. This is the "Off Topic" section of the forum and the Dao Bums is a broad church.

 

True...  Off topic is usually more palatable then the Pit/Chaos and can have non-daoist topics.

 

We have non-daoist members, non-daoist sub-forums and non-daoist moderation after all

 

Well, it depends. Political discussion is okay if it incorporates Daoist or generally spiritual points of view. But yes, we are no political discussion forum in an ordinary sense.

 

Of course not. But I see now what Dawei meant when he warned me that as a moderator, I would have a target on my back. First off, it was a reply to Junko's comment, which I didn't quote because that function doesn't work with my spare cellphone, and I didn't expect anybody to set a post inbetween while I was writing the few lines. I agreed to her insofar I also don't see The Dao Bums as a suitable place for discussions about recommendable stocks, sports bets and politics that don't tie in with something remotely spiritual/philosophical whatsoever. But I hardly see that happen, plus: That's just my personal opinion.

 

Yes, as a staff member, one's word is easily misconstrued as speaking as a guiding hand...  and why I recommend staff just not really post that much and observe more.  But you'll make it through the Lion's Den too...

[silent thunder]

edited out in lieu of the truth that it's often better to remain

Edited January 27, 2016 by silent thunder

[redcairo]

Humorously I was actually trying to demonstrate where politics and cultivation may join but I see that didn't succeed lol.

[Marblehead]

Humorously I was actually trying to demonstrate where politics and cultivation may join but I see that didn't succeed lol.

I'm sure you would have much more success linking politics with religion.

[Brian]

Oh, I think politics and spirituality are inexorably linked.

[redcairo]

I'm sure you would have much more success linking politics with religion.

 

Yeah maybe, but I am quite specifically not religious. I am however a mystic (the accidental garden variety sort -- the "WTF?!" spontaneous experiences path more than the carefully planned path). And I live in a political world. So I still have to find the place inside me that integrates the two areas. Haven't quite got it down yet...

[Karl]

Yeah maybe, but I am quite specifically not religious. I am however a mystic (the accidental garden variety sort -- the "WTF?!" spontaneous experiences path more than the carefully planned path). And I live in a political world. So I still have to find the place inside me that integrates the two areas. Haven't quite got it down yet...

I can only smile having been there once upon a time.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Karl

[Chang]

Oh, I think politics and spirituality are inexorably linked.

 

This is most certainly the case with islam and it's caliphate.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Chang

[Marblehead]

Yeah maybe, but I am quite specifically not religious. I am however a mystic (the accidental garden variety sort -- the "WTF?!" spontaneous experiences path more than the carefully planned path). And I live in a political world. So I still have to find the place inside me that integrates the two areas. Haven't quite got it down yet...

I would never call myself a mystic but I do place great importance on my intuition which is something I think a lot of people confuse with mysticism. 

 

And yes, as long as we live within a society of people we will have to deal with its politics.  But then, the less we interact with our external world the less we have to concern our self with its rules.

 

Most laws are of the "Thou shalt not ..." form.  If we know what we should not do we will pretty much not be effected by the rules.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Marblehead

[Chang]

I would never call myself a mystic but I do place great importance on my intuition which is something I think a lot of people confuse with mysticism. 

 

And yes, as long as we live within a society of people we will have to deal with its politics.  But then, the less we interact with our external world the less we have to concern our self with its rules.

 

Most laws of of the "Thou shalt not ..." form.  If we know what we should not do we will pretty much not be effected by the rules.

 

I went to the Garden of love,

And saw what I never had seen;

A Chapel was built in the midst,

Where I used to play on the green.

 

And the gates of this Chapel were shut,

And “Though shalt not” writ over the door;

So I turned to the Garden of love

That so many sweet flowers bore.

 

And I saw it was filled with graves,

And tombstones where flowers should be;

And priests in black gowns were walking their rounds,

And binding with briars my joys and desires.

 

William Blake

 

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

 

Aliester Crowley

[Marblehead]

The poem reminded me of Joni Mitchell's song "Big Yellow Taxi".

 

Yes, Aliester's quote is often referenced when Anarchy is spoken of but I think it falls short.  I would modify it as:

 

Do what thou wilt but harm none.

 

I think that is already a Wicca modification.

[Apech]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of law,

Love is the law, love under will,

[Marblehead]

But sadly not everyone knows love.