You've got to...accentuate the negative

[Bindi]

I found this amongst many other gems from Jigme Lingpa

 

Sorrows are said to be the pyre for defilements;
this is something amazing.
As an example, even the sorrow of a mere dream
came to be an envoy,
inducing experiences and realizations.
Thereafter, I regarded sorrows and negative comments
as great powers.

from Dancing Moon in the Water, Jigme Lingpa

 

 

[3bob]

"if it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger"... although I don't see that as 100% true.

                                 (supposedly) 

[wilfred]

it's all karma anyway. what matters is your response (or non-response). and sometimes there's a fine line between apathy and equanimity.

[AussieTrees]

"That'll never work."

 

From 'Monster Garage',the little guy.

[Jeff]

Nodjyinmo Changchubma, the daughter of King Sidsung, was endowed with all desirable qualities, great faith, and wisdom. She asked Lui Gyalpo Gawo for the essence of the teachings. He summarized them for her thus:

 

 

I am Lugyal Gawo...

Without needing to be forsaken, the emotions are the five great wisdoms.

Without needing to be removed, the three poisons' are the perfection of Body, Voice and Mind.

Without needing to be eliminated, samsara is the path that leads to the bliss of bodhi.

Thus has the state of knowledge of the Buddhas of the three times arisen in me.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Jeff

[3bob]

interesting quote Jeff, thanks 

[Bindi]

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.” - C.G. Jung

[Jeff]

“One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.” - C.G. Jung

 

Fun quote. I think it would be more useful to say... Make the unconscious conscious.

 

 

[Marblehead]

Well, yeah, negative things that happen in our life are lessons too.  But I doubt dwelling on them helps us much, if at all.

[AussieTrees]

The lesson well learnt and often practiced,in life we learn to let go,one thing after another,until even life.

Letting go is the lesson.

[Bindi]

Well, yeah, negative things that happen in our life are lessons too.  But I doubt dwelling on them helps us much, if at all.

 

To me it's not about dwelling on the negative things, but noticing the negative emotions/states that hijack me, and making them conscious, which allows them to be removed. Things like fear, shame, anger, ego etc, I am strongly of the opinion that these hijackers cannot be removed by 'imagining figures of light', but have to be addressed directly. 

 

The alternative, imagining figures of light, will only bury the hijackers deeper, more hidden from the world and self perhaps (for a while), but ultimately more in control.

[Bindi]

Fun quote. I think it would be more useful to say... Make the unconscious conscious.

 

Maybe Jung was just being poetic in contrasting darkness to light, I think your version is equally correct but not as catchy   

[Bindi]

The lesson well learnt and often practiced,in life we learn to let go,one thing after another,until even life. Letting go is the lesson.

 

I  personally feel that to truly let go of something it needs to be brought into consciousness, and worked on, and resolved first, then it can naturally fall away.

[3bob]

the wisdom of truth aka the light of truth reveals the lying rats hiding in darkness where they carry out their schemes

[Bindi]

The rats that hatch their mutinous plans below the poop deck...

[Bearded Dragon]

I  personally feel that to truly let go of something it needs to be brought into consciousness, and worked on, and resolved first, then it can naturally fall away.

 

Everything is already resolved in consciousness, so the "worked on" part is not really anything other than just being conscious of it. It's already ok and doesn't need to be let go of, but then it happens anyway when the part that says "It's not resolved" goes away.

[Bindi]

Everything is already resolved in consciousness, so the "worked on" part is not really anything other than just being conscious of it. It's already ok and doesn't need to be let go of, but then it happens anyway when the part that says "It's not resolved" goes away.

 

 

I personally couldn't convince myself that everything is already ok and just needs to be made conscious or brought to consciousness, because I fundamentally believe that some parts are actually damaged, not just incorrectly believed to be damaged or imperfect.

[Karl]

I  personally feel that to truly let go of something it needs to be brought into consciousness, and worked on, and resolved first, then it can naturally fall away.

 

It won't always fall way and sometimes it most certainly should not. Unearned negative values are useless baggage that drags a person down, but earned negatives that you consciously accept full responsibility for, are lessons that should be learned from.

 

The problem is if you either; don't know why you are accumulated unearned negatives, or are consciously evading your ethical virtues and piling on earned negatives for which you take no responsibility and refuse to learn from.

[Stosh]

IMO  

To consider something damaged , -one has to entertain an imagination that things could be some other way , and in fact , they should  be some other way than they are now. 

My cat wouldnt know if the TV was on the blink , right? The thing would just be making noises ,or not.

Since damage is in ones imagination , the condition that you find things to be in, presents opportunities of its own.

Physically , I agree the hammer with the broken handle , doesn't function as it did, and bad things do happen .. as we see it from our human position. But .........the imperfection or wrongness of things is a state you imagine, you set yourself up for. Recognizing this can alleviate ones upset and frustration etc. which stands in the way of optimizing ones efforts. 

So the hammer is broken , don't bemoan it,,, fix it , walk away from it , or use it the way it is. 

Things are OK. 

[Bindi]

IMO  

To consider something damaged , -one has to entertain an imagination that things could be some other way , and in fact , they should  be some other way than they are now. 

My cat wouldnt know if the TV was on the blink , right? The thing would just be making noises ,or not.

Since damage is in ones imagination , the condition that you find things to be in, presents opportunities of its own.

Physically , I agree the hammer with the broken handle , doesn't function as it did, and bad things do happen .. as we see it from our human position. But .........the imperfection or wrongness of things is a state you imagine, you set yourself up for. Recognizing this can alleviate ones upset and frustration etc. which stands in the way of optimizing ones efforts. 

So the hammer is broken , don't bemoan it,,, fix it , walk away from it , or use it the way it is. 

Things are OK. 

Going with your hammer analogy, yes I think the hammer really is broken, I don't accept that it is just my imagination nor that accepting it's brokenness will alleviate the problem, and yes I am trying to fix it by looking directly at what is damaged.

[doc benway]

I found this amongst many other gems from Jigme Lingpa

 

It's been very helpful to me to try and take my negative experiences as the path.

It really makes a difference.

[3bob]

how to address this B.S. about missing the mark and no sin?... the rising soul knows better than the lie.  

[Bindi]

how to address this B.S. about missing the mark and no sin?... the rising soul knows better than the lie.  

3bob, what is the B.S. about missing the mark and no sin?

 

The rising soul is the Self?

[3bob]

what I meant to say is that we sometimes miss the mark and or sin and its neo-quasi-B.S. to speak as if we are above it all, - granted transcendent pure spirit is not corruptible thus above it all and also hidden in it all - but look around and its easy to see that in the worlds of mind and duality that many things are not being done per pure spirit.

 

The "Soul of soul" is Spirit, whereas the soul of an individual is woven of many strands, strands which may be dark and light. Also the souls which are rising to the call of Soul or Spirit does not lie to itself about its dark karma and the work needed to right their ship..

[Stosh]

Going with your hammer analogy, yes I think the hammer really is broken, I don't accept that it is just my imagination nor that accepting it's brokenness will alleviate the problem, and yes I am trying to fix it by looking directly at what is damaged.

Great  ! , how far did looking at it get you? 

 

 

You said this...

 

To me it's not about dwelling on the negative things, but noticing the negative emotions/states that hijack me, and making them conscious, which allows them to be removed. Things like fear, shame, anger, ego etc, I am strongly of the opinion that these hijackers cannot be removed by 'imagining figures of light', but have to be addressed directly. 

 

The alternative, imagining figures of light, will only bury the hijackers deeper, more hidden from the world and self perhaps (for a while), but ultimately more in control.

 

Frankly I dont see why you'd object to the idea when I say it.

To me it appears that you have some conflicting ideas about whether examination of problems makes them disappear. I agree,, Imagining figures of light - the good opposing the bad , just preserves the polemic, magnifies guilt , enlarges the emotional obstacles. The hijacker , IMO is the idea that things have a right way to be, and that one rebels at having to fix things. That there is some justice that hasnt been meted out, and stubbornly we dig our heels in because we want to force the world to do the justice we figured was appropriate. 

The world doesnt care , it laughs at us and our petty concerns, while we fume and fret ,and have little ol temper tantrums about the things we imagine. Right ,wrong, justice , broken -all dissolve when it comes the the serene impassivity of the universe.

We preserve these things which we imagine , because we love them , whether or not ! they cause us just as much misery. ( I can explain that if it seems ironic but I figure it should stand on its own as true , with a bit of introspection)

Edited March 3, 2016 by Stosh