You've got to...accentuate the negative

[Bindi]

Yes, sad and filled with pain. But I'm not any of them. And neither are you (at least I hope not).

 

Granted that we should make our self aware of the negatives. But we don't need to practice them in order to have empathy for those who are effected by them. And we also should make our self aware of them so that we can prevent them from entering our life as well as preventing any of them that we are capable of preventing.

 

We don't have to know hate in order to know love. All the dualities, they don't have to exist and most of the negative don't have to exist either. (Remembering that shit happens, some negatives simply cannot be prevented.)

 

If one believes (as I do) that we have a multitude of past lives, then I have been all of them, and I carry all their pain which is intolerable for my mind to recognise, except very slowly, in bite size pieces, under direction.

 

But even in the material world without recourse to reincarnation, there are billions of people suffering, how could all that suffering not affect our world, materially, and energetically?

Edited March 5, 2016 by Bindi

[Marblehead]

I have no idea how to respond.  We help when are where we can.  Beyond that, at least we can say we did what we could do.

[Bindi]

My approach is to start in my own back yard with the effort to deeply and authentically heal myself (and my family). 

[Michael Sternbach]

There is certainly a belief that any detrimental belief can be changed here and now. In psychology it's most modern expression is cognitive behavioural therapy. Change the thoughts and the behaviours, and things will get better. And in the standard 6 month follow up of a short course of CBT the good effect is often still holding, so it is deemed successful and our government funds short course CBT treatment in the health care system.

 

When the cure unravels months later, you could always try electro-convulsive shock treatment, or pills, or both, though success rates vary. Or you could try to find the answer in a religion or a cult, especially one that suggests that detrimental beliefs can be changed here and now.

 

Sure, the people in need of therapy are the minority, but how they fare can be seen as the canary in the cage.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate of the purely behavioural approach. I agree with you that it's generally too superficial. NLP can be useful though.

 

But trying to find the causes of all psychological problems in childhood traumas and the like is tricky. The latter can be an re-enactment of a theme rather than its cause. Then you do reincarnational therapy to find the "true" cause in a past life... or in any number of past lifes!

 

All of this may serve as a framework to facilitate change. But better to study the underlying theme directly... To learn the lesson that your higher self (or whatever name you like to give it) wants you to learn. So the pattern won't have to repeated any longer.

 

Frequently, this lesson has got something to do with how you look at yourself, others, life, creation. In other words, with your beliefs.

 

As a therapist, I therefore like to apply visualization and affirmation. I also have good successes with vibrational approaches like Bach Flower remedies and homeopathy. Astrology and Tarot are also great methods for clients to gain insight into their patterns.

 

But no therapy is ideal for everybody. What works for one person may not be suitable for another. Many methods can be useful, given that there is resonance between the therapist and the client. That factor is more important than the method chosen.

[thelerner]

Yes, sad and filled with pain.  But I'm not any of them.  And neither are you (at least I hope not).

 

Granted that we should make our self aware of the negatives.  But we don't need to practice them in order to have empathy for those who are effected by them.  And we also should make our self aware of them so that we can prevent them from entering our life as well as preventing any of them that we are capable of preventing.

 

We don't have to know hate in order to know love.  All the dualities, they don't have to exist and most of the negative don't have to exist either.  (Remembering that shit happens, some negatives simply cannot be prevented.)

See, I think I am them.  Not to the extreme, but its in me, lurking.  Not to practice or encourage or feed such dark personas/emotions but its good to acknowledge that in different circumstances, perhaps extremes ones I am victim, aggressor, uncaring user.  Worse, in minor ways, I am those every day.  That I'd do well to stay mindful and stay out of such extremes.

 

The poem also points to another truth.  That the bliss of sun and soil, feeling a universal growth and warmth is also possible. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by thelerner

[dawei]

Yes. Going back to the original creation of a certain belief is not always necessary or the most effective way. The problem is not so much why we believe a certain thing, rather that we believe it. And any detrimental belief can be changed - here and now.

 

I would think why and that are linked on some level. 

 

My first thought is whether it is better to just fix thoughts towards positive thoughts or just be without a side on the issues... more like completely acceptance of this or that. 

[Bindi]

I would think why and that are linked on some level. 

 

My first thought is whether it is better to just fix thoughts towards positive thoughts or just be without a side on the issues... more like completely acceptance of this or that. 

 

I would agree with this, complete acceptance of this or that, perhaps the problem is that it's so easy to accept the good stuff, but so much harder to accept the negative feelings/issues/thoughts so I feel they tend to get ignored. 

 

To that extent my insistence on facing the dark in this thread is really just an attempt to balance the imbalance. 

[Michael Sternbach]

I would think why and that are linked on some level. 

Let me give you an example: Someone might be in conflict because they feel ashamed of their sexual feelings. In the course of a past-oriented psychotherapy, they find that their parents were uneasy about anything sexual and that, as a child, they once got reprimanded when they were seen touching their genitals.

 

At some stage, they go to an astrologer who tells them that their problems were not really caused by any childhood events, at most such events activated what they have inherent in their personality structure as shown in their natal chart, where Venus is in Virgo in opposition to Saturn.

 

Later, this person does a reincarnation therapy and finds that they spent a former life as a monk/nun and were required to repress their sexuality.

 

Will going back to these events help them accept their sexuality in the present? Maybe they can serve as a frame of reference for that. But what is crucial is that they change their beliefs about sexuality, no matter what may seem to have led to those beliefs in the first place.

 

My first thought is whether it is better to just fix thoughts towards positive thoughts or just be without a side on the issues... more like completely acceptance of this or that. 

We all need beliefs, without them we would be about as dysfunctional as a computer without programme. However, on an advanced level, we can see that our beliefs are no absolute truths, and we may be able to balance those which are too one-sided.

[Stosh]

While Im skeptical about certain suggested therapies, my own position on retroactive restructuring ,, suggests .. they may indeed have this process as a basis. New emotional connections with old issues.

But generally, accentuate the positive,,negative,,,, means blow it up to greater proportions. Which may actually just be a catchy title and not a suggested therapy.

Are not all the curatives being suggested ,,based on the mind today, rewriting connections of yesterday?

Even electroshock just severs the connections between now and then, so that the actions today arent based on yesterday.

If we can all agree on this ,,and all agree on the normal spectrum of human experience including fear and sadness.. ..... what is it we arent on the same page about? details?

[Marblehead]

See, I think I am them. 

Fair observation.  However, you have gone where I cannot so I have no valid response.

[Michael Sternbach]

I think what matters is to have some kind of mirror that helps see oneself. This can be childhood memories, dreams, a horoscope chart... Whatever reflects and amplifies aspects of self can basically serve as a frame of reference.

[Marblehead]

What if you accentuated...nothing?

You would be wu wei-ing then, wouldn't you?

[Michael Sternbach]

Childhood memories; dreams; a conceptual and labeling system like astrology are all baggage or frameworks. They are not the same as seeing oneself in a clean, polished mirror.

One works toward a clear mirror by throwing all those away, as alluring as those frameworks may be.

 

What if you accentuated...nothing?

 

Yes, throwing all frameworks away may be the way to go if you want to convince yourself that you actually don't exist. Well, to each their own; personally, I don't think this is an effective way of solving psychological problems, or developing your consciousness. But if it is for you, don't forget to additionally get rid of all your physical mirrors, and to throw away any photos of yourself that you may have.

[Marblehead]

True! Then we'd be in a different thread.

Hehehe.  For me they are all linked.  (When I go off topic I'm really not going off topic, I'm just linking.)

[Michael Sternbach]

Yeah, that's actually what I have been doing lately! Discarding physical remnants of memories: pictures, cards, etc.

Curious. Would/could you view "physcological problems" as fundamentally "spiritual problems"?

 

An excellent question. There is indeed the view that our physical incarnations are not least meant to be learning experiences. In these terms, by answering to the questions that the problems we encounter pose, we are learning certain spiritual lectures. Learning the lecture means being able to express its underlying theme in a more constructive way.

 

This will differ for each individual. For instance, if you were somebody prone to criticize others for their mistakes, your task would be to learn loving tolerance and putting your eye for detail to more constructive use.

 

In Bach Flower therapy (a system of psychological healing in which I am an educated and certified counselor), there are 38 psychological states defined, each in their negative as well as their positive mode of expression. The high vibrations of the Bach Flower remedies are to help you shift from one to the other. But in his writings, Dr. Edward Bach also emphasized the role of the practitioner's guidance toward an understanding of spiritual principles.

 

All this is based not so much on the assumption that the egoic personality is an illusion and hindrance that should be discarded, but that it is a unique expression of the Universal Mind that should be "alchemically" refined toward its more sophisticated manifestation, solving it's problems in the process.

 

In Daoist terms you could say that the personality is learning to live in harmony with the Dao.

[Stosh]

So much for linking, The swirling river swished past my umbrella. No surprise there though..the channels too deep.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Stosh

[ilumairen]

So much for linking, The swirling river swished past my umbrella. No surprise there though..the channels too deep.

 

I've recently been told that this is kind of what happens when you try standing in the river. I still try on occasion though.

[Stosh]

He he he, yep.

[Michael Sternbach]

Tis a fast moving stream.

[Karl]

Good observation there as to the mind having "anti bodies" to fight back to alterations, even constructive ones.

 

Not anti-bodies, just the use of reason to re-evaluate concepts and definitions. It's necessary to apply effort in the way of hard thinking to deconstruct the concepts back to the precepts. That is of course in the case of one not damaged by torture or other severe mental constraint.

[ilumairen]

Not anti-bodies, just the use of reason to re-evaluate concepts and definitions. It's necessary to apply effort in the way of hard thinking to deconstruct the concepts back to the precepts. That is of course in the case of one not damaged by torture or other severe mental constraint.

 

Perhaps, to an extent, this can be useful, but it seems to also create it's own nest of words and ideas, an illusion of safety from the 'influence' of the world one lives in. It seems to be a self perpetuating trap of sorts imo. It is 'self' envisioned as seperate.

[centertime]

"if it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger"... although I don't see that as 100% true.

                                 (supposedly) 

Or it can damage you...and you become weak or crippled..