Zhan Zhuang Practice Videos

[Robin]

I'm looking for some videos which build on Lam Kam Chuen's excellent series (

)

 

I want to increase the duration of my practice and also learn some more advanced postures/internal work. I am aware I could do this without videos/with a teacher, but I'm specifically interested in practice videos - either online or to purchase.

 

Any suggestions/recommendations? It doesn't have to be the same exact system, but I like the overall style and approach.

[doc benway]

Lam Kam Chuen's approach is top notch.

I am of the mind that, with respect to zhang zhuang, less is more. 

Basic standing posture is all you will ever need.

If you stay with it with open mind and heart, allow the breath to deepen and lengthen, and sink qi to dan tian, everything else that needs to happen can come from there. 

Certainly you can learn other postures and study videos and so forth.

If you take all the time you would spend watching videos and practicing multiple postures and put all of that into simple standing in any one posture, I think the benefits will be much greater.

Just my $.02.

[Gerard]

If you rely only in standing, I'm afraid you won't progress much. How are you going to remove deep emotional blockages buried in the unconscious mind (yin). They usually sit in the Liver and the Heart (the ultimate culprit, the 'emperor'). Also the quality of your Kidney health as well as the Spleen. A healthy spleen makes the body lighter.

 

As you can see there are numerious factors to be taken into account.

 

So, you must incorporate movement in your practice.

 

Here's an good reading that talks about the mechanics of the entire waist area (ruled by the Wood element)

 

Good luck

[Walker]

[Robin]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

However, I should probably mention that I have practiced qi gong for over 20 years and I know many moving forms.

 

The reason I want videos is that my partner is less motivated than me to learn and practice, but we have found that Lam Kam Chuen's videos are a way we can practice together that works well. 

 

I'd like to build up the time spent in the postures in small increments, and also start doing some of the weight-shifted postures shown in Lam Kam Chuen's book "The Way of Energy."

 

I like this guy's videos: 

but would enjoy some variety in the postures...

[Gerard]

You can practice for 10 lifetimes but if you don't know what you are doing exactly, you'll progress will be little or become stale.

 

Please don't find this comment derogatory or disrespectful, it is just an observation because you have the whole Universe inside of you and the mechanics of it are extremely complex, I mean they are simple but going back to a pre-birth state is not that easy (add karma on top of that and the challenge is increased exponentially).

 

One must work and know with deep sensitivity and be trained by someone who is established in a serious lineage, who preserves it and passes it on it with care and not for fame or personal fortune (see for instance Dragon Gate Taoists or what you'll learn in a Theravada Buddhism if you attend a Vipassana retreat in a serious monastery).

 

WALK...don't be too still or you'll breed mosquitoes; on the other hand, flowing water breeds healthy fish.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Gerard

[Walker]

Gerard, I think that your comments present some facets of the truth with respect to the need for a teacher, and the need to mix movement with standing still, but I think you may be unaware of the fact that in China there are plenty of people who believe that one can make one's accomplishment with a primarily standing-based regimen. The most widely cited example from famous practitioners in history is Hao Datong, disciple of Quanzhen Dao founder Wang Chongyang, who was instructed to practice standing, and was finally achieved in this way. There are other Daoist groups that base their practice on standing, supposedly some even practicing alchemy in a standing posture. A friend of mine who has climbed many mountains and visited many masters in search of Dao spent some time with an old Daoist master in a cave in the desert in Gansu, a fellow who stands ten hours a day. If it is true that, as you say, movement is necessary to prevent the "stagnant water" condition of the popular analogy, then you might want to read some of what Wang Xiangzhai wrote about standing. These essays are available in English and can be found online.

[RiverSnake]

Simple Wu Chi posture is quite beneficial.

[Sebastian]

I would also venture to say that it is one of the most powerful exercises as Walker stated. MIT is crazy about it in the USA and you can see a lot of their students standing like a tree in front of the campus, there is even a student club. Their daily regimen is 20 minutes standing a day.

 

Folks who made this their staple practice always demonstrated highly robust health to me, and a lesser need for sleep than other people. 

 

Even local raccoons wake up early in Taiwan to stand like a tree in the park with folks doing qigong.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Sebastian

[Gerard]

Gerard, I think that your comments present some facets of the truth with respect to the need for a teacher, and the need to mix movement with standing still, but I think you may be unaware of the fact that in China there are plenty of people who believe that one can make one's accomplishment with a primarily standing-based regimen. The most widely cited example from famous practitioners in history is Hao Datong, disciple of Quanzhen Dao founder Wang Chongyang, who was instructed to practice standing, and was finally achieved in this way. There are other Daoist groups that base their practice on standing, supposedly some even practicing alchemy in a standing posture. A friend of mine who has climbed many mountains and visited many masters in search of Dao spent some time with an old Daoist master in a cave in the desert in Gansu, a fellow who stands ten hours a day.

 

 

In history...that's the problem. Today we need a lot more movement than in the past. Many reasons behind it.

 

One for starters: we are under influence of the Wood element, hence movement is the primary force for any successful program.

 

Please do not compare what someone living in the wilderness does to people living in society. Poeple living in the modern urban world suffer from what is called: stagnant energy and too much of it in the head with blocked Yin (Earth, the root)

 

Regards.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Gerard

[lifeforce]

Lam Kam Chuen's approach is top notch.

I am of the mind that, with respect to zhang zhuang, less is more.

Basic standing posture is all you will ever need.

If you stay with it with open mind and heart, allow the breath to deepen and lengthen, and sink qi to dan tian, everything else that needs to happen can come from there.

Certainly you can learn other postures and study videos and so forth.

If you take all the time you would spend watching videos and practicing multiple postures and put all of that into simple standing in any one posture, I think the benefits will be much greater.

Just my $.02.

Excellent advice which only comes from experience.

I've drifted in and out of standing practices over the years and have come to the same conclusion as you have Steve. Stick to one posture, the most basic, and just use this as your cultivation, however tempted you may be to try others.

[Walker]

In history...that's the problem. Today we need a lot more movement than in the past. Many reasons behind it.

 

I think your sentiment that people need to move more today is generally spot on--especially if we're talking about urban people in most white collar jobs and a lots of working class jobs, too. Nevertheless, in my years in China I have encountered more than enough "success stories" attributed to practice almost solely based on standing that I have to strongly disagree with the blanket-statement notion that the practice of zhan zhuang necessarily is incapable of being an all-encompassing practice for people alive today.

 

Additionally, if you read the works on Yi Quan/Da Cheng Quan written by Wang Xiangzhai as well as some of his students and grandstudents, you will see that "finding movement within stillness" is essential to the practice. The word "蠕动" is used to describe this type of movement. Here's a quote on the topic, maybe Google Translate can get the gist across, otherwise when I've got more time if you guys like I can translate it, but you'll have to wait till late Feb:

 

芗老在《大成拳谱》中说：“大成拳试力的动作，讲究大动不如小动，小动不如蠕动（蠕动即是姑荣、鼓蠕）。鼓蠕的动作虽微不可见，却是全身皆动。大成拳的要求就是要一鼓蠕就能把力发出去。此种蠕动正是功夫到了体成一块的整劲之动。蠕，是一种爬行的软体肉虫，它的动作很微小，但一动则全身皆动，这是它特有的本能。我原意是说大动不如小动，小动不如蠕动。可能是由于不理解或理解得不深，有人却把我的话说成大动不如小动，小动不如不动。请问，不动怎么能打人呢？这也可能是因为不理解，也可能因为蠕动二字与不动的读音易混吧。”

 

At any rate, standing for ten years more or less without break, with about a year and a half of standing in there before that, has allowed me to taste what the word 蠕动 points at. Gerard, if I recall correctly, you have stated before that you don't really do much standing. Respectfully, if that's the case, perhaps you might consider speaking about the practice with less certitude. This practice unfolds and reveals its potential depths over the course of looooong periods of time. What happens when you stand in your first year versus your third year versus your fifth versus your tenth will be very different. What it would be like after thirty years, I literally cannot pretend to imagine, just as how standing works for me now is nothing like it did ten years ago!

 

One for starters: we are under influence of the Wood element, hence movement is the primary force for any successful program.

 

That sounds like an overly grandiose statement that doesn't really reflect what the five elements are meant to represent. "The wood element" is always influencing us, as are the other four "elements."

 

In reality, speaking of the five elements is just a more detailed way of speaking aboyt yin and yang. Ie, the word water alludes to the extreme of yin, with qi being stored; wood alludes to this stored qi coming into manifestation, yin transforming into yang; fire alludes to the flourishing manifestation of qi and is the extreme of yang; metal alludes to the opposite of what wood alludes to; and so-called earth is word used to represent the "center" around which this neverending cycle "revolves."

 

In other words, because all five "elements/phases" are inextricably part of the process of unending change in all aspects and levels of the grand totality of existence, it's not really possible to say that any one object, idea, or place in time represents just one "element." By extension, it's also impossible to rule anything out on the basis of such thinking.

 

Just as yin and yang are always present in our lives, so are the five elements. They are also always present in any zhan zhuang practice, and as one's skill increases, that will become increasingly evident, but the key is years of practice.

 

Please do not compare what someone living in the wilderness does to people living in society. Poeple living in the modern urban world suffer from what is called: stagnant energy and too much of it in the head with blocked Yin (Earth, the root)

 

More or less I agree. Practicing in wilderness and in the city are two different kettles of fish. However, personal experience, experiences of friends and acquaintances, and the opinions of people who've devoted their lives to these practices leave me quite confident that standing can be taught, learnt, and practiced in ways that take care of the kind of stagnation you mention.

[Walker]

Excellent advice which only comes from experience.

I've drifted in and out of standing practices over the years and have come to the same conclusion as you have Steve. Stick to one posture, the most basic, and just use this as your cultivation, however tempted you may be to try others.

 

I think that's a good general principle but I practice a variety of postures and most definitely they affect the body as well as the mind in very, very different ways. However, basic hunyuan zhuang is still taught to be the basis from which the subsequent practice evolves.

[tumoessence]

Master Han whose father was one of Wang Xiangzhai most long standing students (sorry pun intended) has also come to the insight that people need more movement and rather than stressing holding postures for long stretches puts emphasis on being able to stand holding the body's "natural state".  That if you stand while not being in the natural state it doesn't do much good.  The natural state is one of condensing and combing the upper and lower body into the dan tien area while also being aware and expanded from the center to the fingers.  It may be that someone can hold that state only for a few minutes so then one moves to the next of the eight postures and hold the state there and so on also trying to hold it in the movement. Having touched hands with Master Han and some of his advanced students I can attest to their very skilled level in expressing jin.

[Gerard]

walker, if something doesn't work for you, drop it and find a method that does. Standing meditation never did it for me (after 8 years of practice, sure I managed to stand for 1 hour but nothing compared to Bagua). Other practitioners have their own meditation and practice systems which work quite well for them. Stick to what it works for you and with patience and determination, you shall succeed.

 

The OP is asking for how to increase the duration of his practice, this means he has encountered an internal block. The best method to dissolve it is by incorporating external movement, let it be IMA, walking meditation or anything else that might inspire him. Carrying on with the same thing over and over again won't dissolve the block.

[Daeluin]

I believe sitting, standing, and moving are all important, for different reasons. Personally I find standing to be quite profound, for I feel more firmly rooted between heaven and earth, and my four limbs are more engaged than I am able to accomplish with sitting at this point. It is the depth of my standing and sitting that most directly results in transformation within my moving work.

 

The moving work however is most helpful (for me) in not just dissolving blockages, but in getting the energy to move in a natural circular way. But perhaps I just don't stand enough. I believe blockages can be dissolved via standing on a deep level, especially when different arm positions are used, and taiji post stances, and that moving can dissolve them more quickly but on a surface level, less deeply, but without as much mental perseverance/patience required. Silk reeling exercises are incredibly effective at opening the joints and getting the qi to spiral from the limbs to the center. The spiraling, invisible feel of my energy sometimes after circle walking and bagua is just unlike anything else.

 

Ultimately everything must connect to wuji, and it is very difficult to achieve this in movement. Mostly because in movement it is difficult to maintain stillness. Stillness strengthens the mind. And even where the moving may help with dissolving blockages it may not be as effective at sealing leaks as standing.

 

I believe it is all relative. There are many tools. Combining a little bit of sitting, standing, and moving, might be very helpful. But it is also easy for things to become too complicated, so just one exercise done in full sincerity is better than several that are rushed through. Sitting after standing in different positions, or moving through different forms, can help one sense a deeper layer of what those practices have been changing.

[Robin]

IMO choosing one practice and sticking to it is very useful and cultivates some important qualities, including discipline. However, surely it's one side of a duality which must/will turn into it's opposite. Stability and consistency if taken too far (a very relative term I know) will lead to stagnation, lack of inspiration/creativity and "not being in tune with the energy of the moment which has moved on from what it was before." Perhaps?

 

Lam Kam Cheun's book has several postures, including some advanced ones, so I don't get the impression the he himself advocates just one posture, although he does suggest building up time in particular postures, and if we have limited time to practice that might well equate to only doing one.

 

As for if standing is enough, I agree that there are many ways to skin a rabbit. It is for some, not for others. I would say though that whatever else is done, a few minutes a day spent in a standing posture with good alignments and breathing has good to be good for your health.

 

Anyway, to reiterate and clarify my original request, I'm not in this instance looking for advice on what/how to practice. Instead I want a resource which will help my partner and me to practice together with our very different levels of experience and motivation. I want increments in length so I can get more work done in a session while my partner can begin to feel more and more benefits to her health and well being.

 

There are actually a whole load of DVDs available on Amazon (tax avoider alert). I will probably just order a couple and see what I get. However, recommendations are always useful. It would be good to have sessions of different lengths to do along with the videos - e.g 10mins, 15mins, 20mins etc. for different occasions.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Robin

[Shevek]

I found Mark Cohen's Inside Zhan Zhuang DVD to be very informative, but haven't done much practice using it as yet. Not sure if this is quite what you are after, but he goes into a lot of detail, including many acupuncture points. The DVD covers variations on the basic wuji posture, postures for health and martial arts and those that affect specific organs. He also has a book, and a number of YouTube videos.

 

When unpacking after a recent move I discovered I still have my VHS tape of 'Stand Still - Be Fit' by Lam Kam Chuen (1995), and I remember watching the original series on TV!

[Daeluin]

One idea is to come up with your own routine, then use a laptop webcam to record it, then play it back with your friend when you practice.

 

I find these things are best done solo, silent, and without casting the gaze upon anything. In a class scenario if there is someone to watch when learning that is helpful, but once one has it down one should turn the light of the mind inward. With a partner who knows the routine, one of you can simply say "change" when it is time to change.

 

Just some suggestions. Be creative and come up with what you need. Good luck!

[opendao]

Gerard, I think that your comments present some facets of the truth with respect to the need for a teacher, and the need to mix movement with standing still, but I think you may be unaware of the fact that in China there are plenty of people who believe that one can make one's accomplishment with a primarily standing-based regimen. The most widely cited example from famous practitioners in history is Hao Datong, disciple of Quanzhen Dao founder Wang Chongyang, who was instructed to practice standing, and was finally achieved in this way. There are other Daoist groups that base their practice on standing, supposedly some even practicing alchemy in a standing posture. A friend of mine who has climbed many mountains and visited many masters in search of Dao spent some time with an old Daoist master in a cave in the desert in Gansu, a fellow who stands ten hours a day. If it is true that, as you say, movement is necessary to prevent the "stagnant water" condition of the popular analogy, then you might want to read some of what Wang Xiangzhai wrote about standing. These essays are available in English and can be found online.

 

Right, Zhang Zhuang is a very important method. It's different in Qigong, Martial Arts and Neidan though. And has many variations to get different effects.

 

In China some teachers say: "there is dead zhang zhuan, and alive one". But in the West people learn the "dead" version (="stagnant water"), and get no effect, so they have to  "stop that torture". 

 

Also what people don't want to realize, that before standing in zhang zhuang, they have to learn a lot... And it's impossible by video (however I've never seen any video with such explanations).

[Walker]

walker, if something doesn't work for you, drop it and find a method that does. Standing meditation never did it for me (after 8 years of practice, sure I managed to stand for 1 hour but nothing compared to Bagua).

 

I commend you for your hard work and dedication; I'm also sorry to hear that zhangzhuang did not reveal more fruits for you, but I'm glad to know that you have found them elsewhere.

 

As for the rest, well, as is often the case, frankly you confuse me.

 

First you say:

 

Other practitioners have their own meditation and practice systems which work quite well for them. Stick to what it works for you and with patience and determination, you shall succeed.

 

Then in the very next breath you say:

 

The OP is asking for how to increase the duration of his practice, this means he has encountered an internal block. The best method to dissolve it is by incorporating external movement, let it be IMA, walking meditation or anything else that might inspire him. Carrying on with the same thing over and over again won't dissolve the block.

 

Can you be sure that patiently and determinedly deepening zhanzhuang practice won't dissolve the "block" that you for whatever reason you are so confident Robin (who says s/he has practiced qigong for 20 years and knows many moving forms!) is suffering from? I don't get it.

 

At any rate, the issue is that you're offering prescriptions to people in the form of blanket statements without really understanding the complexities of their personal practices nor, clearly, the vast differences between different types of zhanzhuang.

 

I have learned zhanzhuang from a wide variety of teachers, and have had in depth discussions with many teachers and long-term practitioners. It is as Opendao says: there are "many variations to get different effects."

 

What one gets out of zhanzhuang is in large part a question of very subtle adjustments to posture (we're talking stuff that you need to have physically done to you, because just hearing it or reading it or seeing another person in a photo or video do it is not enough--your mind thinks it understands but your body doesn't know how to "obey," and thus you need your body to be put into that position time and again until your body remembers). The other important factor is the "mental instructions" or 心法, ie, the instructions you receive about what to do with your mind while you stand there.

 

Both of the above factors are very different from teacher to teacher and practice to practice. They are just about impossible to convey in writing or even in video. Because of this, what you get out of zhangzhuang from study with one master can extraordinarily different from what you get out of practice with another.

 

Due to these complexities, even though one might practice for hundreds or thousands of hours, it's still next to impossible to be in a place where one can make accurate and informed statements about the forms of zhanzhuang that one has not personally experienced.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Walker

[Taoist Texts]

What one gets out of zhanzhuang is in large part a question of very subtle adjustments to posture (we're talking stuff that you need to have physically done to you, because just hearing it or reading it or seeing another person in a photo or video do it is not enough--your mind thinks it understands but your body doesn't know how to "obey," and thus you need your body to be put into that position time and again until your body remembers). The other important factor is the "mental instructions" or 心法, ie, the instructions you receive about what to do with your mind while you stand there.

 

Both of the above factors are very different from teacher to teacher and practice to practice. They are just about impossible to convey in writing 

 

 

 , then you might want to read some of what Wang Xiangzhai wrote about standing. 

What is the title of his book? 'Standing is Impossible to Convey in Writing' by Wang XZ?

[liminal_luke]

I think I know what Walker is talking about, as far as in-person stance correction, because I´ve experienced it. I´d be standing there, thinking I was doing everything right, and my teacher would come and make some small tweak to my position, maybe just adjust an elbow slightly or change the curvature of my fingers. Anyway...he´d make some subtle change and bam, the chi would suddenly open up.

 

Of course, later I´d try to put myself into that same position but never could get the same effect. It is indeed very subtle, perhaps not impossible to convey in writing but impossible to learn from writing. Impossible to learn from video. I´m very much a do-it-yourself kind a guy when it comes to spiritual practice, but sometimes a teacher really is invaluable.

[soaring crane]

fyi - I've now attended two extended workshops with Lam and have been priveleged to watch him perform his martial arts once (apparently a privilege that very few people have enjoyed, so I feel quite honored in that respect). He's a master of them all, including Bagua. So, please dispell the impression that he does nothing but standing practices.

 

However, he'd tell you that the static practice is the root of the dynamic arts. And if he had to sacrifice one for the other, there's no question which one he'd retain. He basically said as much.

 

The most advanced two-legged posture I've experienced with him is the yiquan dragon stance, not something you should do without instruction, because you won't do it right:

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by soaring crane

[Miffymog]

I'm so glad you've put that video up. I'm only on 1st and 2nd postures and will be for some time, but I've seen these advanced ones in books and so am at least familiar with them. Well, today I spent 5 hours doing conservation in thick wet mud and my feet kept getting stuck. I ended up doing that dragon stance loads of times trying to get my feet out with my arms and body twisted just like that picture. I found out that what you're doing is moving all your weight on to one foot, on a low stance, while trying to stay balanced so you don't fall further in the mud. I'm not sure that these stances were originally developed by ZZ masters getting stuck in mud, but they might have done!!!