Tao as a verb and a noun...

[3bob]

Tao as a "verb" and a noun: (so to speak)

That is how the following chapter sounds to me how about you?

 

T.T.C.

21.
IT lies in the nature of Grand Virtue
To follow the Tao and the Tao alone.
Now what is the Tao?
It is Something elusive and evasive.
Evasive and elusive!
And yet It contains within Itself a Form.
Elusive and evasive!
And yet It contains within Itself a Substance.
Shadowy and dim!
And yet It contains within Itself a Core of Vitality.
The Core of Vitality is very real,
It contains within Itself an unfailing Sincerity.
Throughout the ages Its Name has been preserved
In order to recall the Beginning of all things.
How do I know the ways of all things at the Beginning?
By what is within me.

 

[Marblehead]

Yes, there are many translations that would lead one to thing of Tao as a noun.

 

This is one of the reasons why I prefer Henricks' translation.  He uses the word "Way" much more often than he does "Tao".

 

And I still hold to my understanding that "Tao" should be considered a verb and not a noun.

[Junko]

Taobums

[Jeff]

The Tao being both a noun and verb makes sense to me. Also, SFH's version touches on it well...

 

 

CHAPTER 21

 

The greatest virtue is to follow the Dao and only Dao.

Oh unfathomable Dao, ever elusive and intangible.

But yet within, there is substance and form.

It is the essence of the Ten Thousand Things.

This is very real, so here lies a true path to follow.

 

It was there at the beginning, as it shall be at the end,

Thus I know the ways of creation.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Jeff

[3bob]

yeah, although not of the type of noun (or thing) that can be nailed down in the same way as others .

 

Chapter 25 also alludes to both verb and noun like meanings.

[Jeff]

Yes, again I think you have a very good point...

 

 

CHAPTER 25 (SFH)

 

Something mysteriously formed, born before Heaven and Earth.

In silence and from within the void.

Alone and constant, ever present and flowing.

It is the Mother of the Ten Thousand Things.

I do not know its name, so I call it Dao.

For lack of a better word I call it great.

 

Being great it flows.

It nourishes the Ten Thousand Things far and away.

From whence it came I do not know.

 

Therefore the Dao is great.

Heaven is great.

Earth is great.

The Ten Thousand Things are great.

 

These are the four great powers of the Universe,

And one of them is the Ten Thousand Things.

 

Man follows the Earth.

Earth follows Heaven.

Heaven follows the Dao.

Dao is what is natural.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Jeff

[Marblehead]

That last line is the most important, in my opinion.

 

I call it Tzujan.  And no, it is not a noun, it is a verb.

[Brian]

The concept is multifaceted.

 

Within the context of the line "Dao is what is natural," the word is clearly a noun-form.

[Marblehead]

The concept is multifaceted.

 

Within the context of the line "Dao is what is natural," the word is clearly a noun-form.

But it defines nothing while at the same time defines everything.  Therefore it is really a useless noun.

[3bob]

so shall coin the term 'veroun'?  (although that doesn't sound as sexy as a neutrino)

[Marblehead]

But neutrino is masculine.  I don't find the masculine sexy.  Where are all the neutrinis?

 

 

Sure, "veroun" cannot be argued against, IMO.

[Brian]

The TTC starts by explicitly pointing out that the concept defies definition. I believe the work is intended for those with experiential knowledge, for whom definitions are unnecessary and vagueness is not an obstacle.

[Marblehead]

Y'all realize that it is my Atheistic belief system that does not allow me to view the word "Tao" as a noun, don't you?

[Marblehead]

The TTC starts by explicitly pointing out that the concept defies definition. I believe the work is intended for those with experiential knowledge, for whom definitions are unnecessary and vagueness is not an obstacle.

Now, I cannot dispute that statement.

[3bob]

I thought neutrino meant neutral in some way,  not an eletron, proton or even a metaron?

 

Whereas Torino or Gran Torino is along different lines.

 

Btw, how long have you guys had those little plus marks next your title of steward, and what do they mean?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Tao is "Way".

 

Which is something like saying "the How and Why".

 

Or, the "Order".

 

Tao is not really "a process".

 

Tao is not really about "Time" or "Partial".

 

So "Way", and not "Half-Way".

 

Tao is not a "Thing", so also not a "Destination".

 

Tao is not a "Science" or"Method" of (from, by) human making.

 

Tao is inhuman.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Marblehead]

I thought neutrino meant neutral in some way,  not an eletron, proton or even a metaron?

You are correct as far as I understand.  I just thought it was a good opportunity to make a joke. 

 

Whereas Torino or Gran Torino is along different lines.

Yes, those would be different concepts.

 

Btw, how long have you guys had those little plus marks next your title of steward, and what do they mean?

That is something new.  It actually started when I accepted the responsibility for the Welcome Wagon because I need to have the authority to approve a membership request but not have powers of a Moderator.  I'm an Anarchist - I can't be a Moderator.

[3bob]

As long as you are a fair anarchist it should not matter, go for it

[Marblehead]

As long as you are a fair anarchist it should not matter, go for it

I can't argue with what you said.  Maybe in my next life.

[dawei]

Tao as a "verb" and a noun: (so to speak)

That is how the following chapter sounds to me how about you?

 

As The Sound of Music told us, "Let's start at the very beginning..."

 

There is likely a reason this was established as the very first line:

 

Dao[noun] ke Dao[verb] fei heng/chang Dao[noun]

 

 

Classical chinese was/is more flexible.  

[silent thunder]

Seems to me, everything flows.

 

I can't recall ever encountering any thing that was static, solid, or unchanging.

 

But if really trying to answer the question, then I would say, neither.

Dao is not a verb, nor a noun.  Those are words, symbols for mental constructs...

dao is...

[dawei]

Seems to me, everything flows.

 

I can't recall ever encountering any thing that was static, solid, or unchanging.

 

But if really trying to answer the question, then I would say, neither.

Dao is not a verb, nor a noun.  Those are words, symbols for mental constructs...

dao is...

 

So is TDB... but thankfully that doesn't stop folks from coming back 

[Marblehead]

So is TDB... but thankfully that doesn't stop folks from coming back 

Or others from running away.