Experiencing Bardo while having a functioning body - what is there to do?

[4bsolute]

Just surrender? Does surrender need a clue, a lead, in form of a very subtle intention or does it automatically know where to go?

Consciousness identified with body-mind instantly wants to come back fully into the body. There is so much fear. It wants to change it, creates a relief but finds no permanency in it. Out of it another thought arises and which loops infinitely.

Fear in it's essence is: Wanting permanency and finding none, endlessly helpless. Body-mind wants instinctively forget everything, wants the illusory comfort of the bodily routines back and so reincarnates.

How to get to an end?

There is a blackness in the 'background' which seems to get bigger in perception the looser the patterns become. Surrender is key?

With respect and sincerity only accepting answers from individuals who actually have live and direct experience with these states deeper states of consciousness. Thank you kindly.

Edited January 20, 2016 by 4bsolute

[ilumairen]

While unsure of the terminology you use, in my experience I accepted the desire to live. I stopped meditating for a bit, and focused on caring for the gift that this sacred body is.

 

For me the experience was a deviation from my path which focuses on helping others - something that may prove more difficult without the body/mind.

 

I have read (and been told) that the 'blackness' (which I labelled nothingness) was brought about by my wrong understanding of emptiness. I accepted this, and adjusted accordingly.

[4bsolute]

While unsure of the terminology you use, in my experience I accepted the desire to live. I stopped meditating for a bit, and focused on caring for the gift that this sacred body is. For me the experience was a deviation from my path which focuses on helping others - something that may prove more difficult without the body/mind. I have read (and been told) that the 'blackness' (which I labelled nothingness) was brought about by my wrong understanding of emptiness. I accepted this, and adjusted accordingly.

 

Can you please re-read the last sentence? My intention is not to shoo you off, but the topic is that sincere.

 

If someone asks for the way, you can not say to him "I think it is this way". He will not believe you. There in you should instantly realise that thought is never trusted. Thought is just a reflection. Either you know, through self-experience and radiate that truth, or you are quiet.

 

Reading up information and valuing or devaluing them from ones ego which is pure thought-identity, is not gathering experience with core principles of Life.

 

Thank you

Edited January 20, 2016 by 4bsolute

[ilumairen]

I have experienced many 'gasping dreams' in my life, and have experienced states where the question of staying or going was asked. To me the blackness meant I was not yet prepared.

 

I experienced a state that could have been equated with the hungry ghost realm - not where I would like to end up, if indeed that is what would have happened.

 

I also experienced a state that could have been equated to the demigod realm - again not so pleasant.

 

Then I came to the realization that I was creating these states. And the only way 'off the wheel' was to embrace my humanity. I do not seek death. I embrace the life that I have, understanding and accepting that the time of my bodily death will come when it does, and the fewer constructs I am holding when it does the better off I am.

 

My response was sincere, although your milage may vary.

[Small Fur]

Just surrender? Does surrender need a clue, a lead, in form of a very subtle intention or does it automatically know where to go?

 

Consciousness identified with body-mind instantly wants to come back fully into the body. There is so much fear. It wants to change it, creates a relief but finds no permanency in it. Out of it another thought arises and which loops infinitely.

 

Fear in it's essence is: Wanting permanency and finding none, endlessly helpless. Body-mind wants instinctively forget everything, wants the illusory comfort of the bodily routines back and so reincarnates.

 

How to get to an end?

 

There is a blackness in the 'background' which seems to get bigger in perception the looser the patterns become. Surrender is key?

 

With respect and sincerity only accepting answers from individuals who actually have live and direct experience with these states deeper states of consciousness. Thank you kindly.

 

 

Dear 4bsolute,

 

The level of fear you have right now is completely destablizing and can be further harmful to this precipice or knowing that you are at. There is no necessary rush to understand these mysteries of the universe. 

 

Please don’t overwhelm yourself with questions about getting off the karmic wheel when you are still so deeply attached to it. The answer to methods of transcendence will reveal itself to you, naturally, and beyond a way in which words can provide, if you should come to that point of capacity and willingness to know.

 

As for the blackness, there are many forms of darkness in the universe. The structure and substance of them become more apparent and nuanced when you pass the threshold of this fear. Understanding them is different than witnessing them. And, yes, the qualities of darkness become more obvious when you release any patterns of the mind. I know that experiencing this ‘place’ can feel like a type of existential crisis, because at a certain level it is. So if you choose to further explore this space: be conscious. If you have entirely made it through the initial threshold and are not just witnessing or sensing things at a distance, I find that from here on, very subtle intention is useful- it can guide, ground and stabilize you through the dark, seemingly ‘empty’ vastness, hence another reason to be clear in your integrity. It is important not to be lost in that infinite space: learn to physically root your corporeal body first. Initially, this may decelerate the experience, but as you self-cultivate and adjust, the experiences will be safer for your system, deeper, and you will have greater insight from them. The state of a higher consciousness necessary for wisdom requires equanimity. 

 

As for your fear of impermanency, I don’t want to elaborate on it further because the truth behind the matter- once you experience it to its core and not just sense it, can be very shattering. If you have seen it, then you know, and part of your path now, would be to find peace in that truth. If you have not felt the core of that truth and are just wandering in a suspended fear of formlessness, then pull back from these experiences and take time to ground yourself here, in this form, on earth. Whether in the formless or the formed, the answer is that you must find peace with the truth. And while embodied now, always take care of this vessel. It is the only vessel you have from which to know either the formed or the unformed.

 

In the end, my personal suggestion is, don’t just play around with this information. Be really clear why you are allowing yourself into this knowledge. There are many planes of existence and infinite things to be known. If you are not clear why you are exploring this and its purpose in your life now, then don’t create a deluge of information and crisis. There are many things in the universe to be known, some of which are horrific to the human concept and contrary to its constructs, that aren’t entirely useful nor necessary for the practicality of your wellbeing now. If you continue this journey, walk a sacred path: have integrity, self-cultivate, be sincere, have equanimity. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by Small Fur

[johndoe2012]

If fear is the obstacle you could work on the fears you mention.

 

Maybe also work on the wish for experiencing bardo.

 

You can return those fears and wishes back into emptiness / divinity using specific tools or just sit in silence with a consciousness that is more still than yours to release all that stuff.

[Kubba]

Just don't worry.

 

Finding a teacher is always good thing to do.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Kubba

[4bsolute]

Dear 4bsolute,

 

The level of fear you have right now is completely destablizing and can be further harmful to this precipice or knowing that you are at. There is no necessary rush to understand these mysteries of the universe. 

 

Please don’t overwhelm yourself with questions about getting off the karmic wheel when you are still so deeply attached to it. The answer to methods of transcendence will reveal itself to you, naturally, and beyond a way in which words can provide, if you should come to that point of capacity and willingness to know.

 

As for the blackness, there are many forms of darkness in the universe. The structure and substance of them become more apparent and nuanced when you pass the threshold of this fear. Understanding them is different than witnessing them. And, yes, the qualities of darkness become more obvious when you release any patterns of the mind. I know that experiencing this ‘place’ can feel like a type of existential crisis, because at a certain level it is. So if you choose to further explore this space: be conscious. If you have entirely made it through the initial threshold and are not just witnessing or sensing things at a distance, I find that from here on, very subtle intention is useful- it can guide, ground and stabilize you through the dark, seemingly ‘empty’ vastness, hence another reason to be clear in your integrity. It is important not to be lost in that infinite space: learn to physically root your corporeal body first. Initially, this may decelerate the experience, but as you self-cultivate and adjust, the experiences will be safer for your system, deeper, and you will have greater insight from them. The state of a higher consciousness necessary for wisdom requires equanimity. 

 

As for your fear of impermanency, I don’t want to elaborate on it further because the truth behind the matter- once you experience it to its core and not just sense it, can be very shattering. If you have seen it, then you know, and part of your path now, would be to find peace in that truth. If you have not felt the core of that truth and are just wandering in a suspended fear of formlessness, then pull back from these experiences and take time to ground yourself here, in this form, on earth. Whether in the formless or the formed, the answer is that you must find peace with the truth. And while embodied now, always take care of this vessel. It is the only vessel you have from which to know either the formed or the unformed.

 

In the end, my personal suggestion is, don’t just play around with this information. Be really clear why you are allowing yourself into this knowledge. There are many planes of existence and infinite things to be known. If you are not clear why you are exploring this and its purpose in your life now, then don’t create a deluge of information and crisis. There are many things in the universe to be known, some of which are horrific to the human concept and contrary to its constructs, that aren’t entirely useful nor necessary for the practicality of your wellbeing now. If you continue this journey, walk a sacred path: have integrity, self-cultivate, be sincere, have equanimity. 

 

I have stopped to continue to approach it purely from the mind.

 

I had 2 years prior to that event experienced what is called our "Spiritual Heart". Pure life energy, that lateron gets distributed into all of your various channels, chakras etc.

 

Personality brought me quickly out of it and here I am finding back into it.

 

Without it I had experienced a few weeks ago Samadhi with open eyes into this world. I saw my Self in other humans. One being. It was the most frightening experience I have yet experienced from this limited personal human-body-mind. But it was so familiar. And therefor I am sure everyone knows this feeling.

 

The events were so synchrone in this moment, that words felt completely empty, had no meaning to it and the ones speaking it (family members) there was pity coming up for them, because it feld they did not really know what they were saying.. all without deeper meaning. Whatever wanted to be spoken was known before it was actually said out loud. My body was shaking and my stomach felt as if it wanted to throw up.

 

Every thought that came to my mind lost its grip and I knew I had to let my body to be as it is after thoughts wanted to find an end, a conclusion, where there is none. And this knowing was so complete that it was the most frightening experience so far. All our measurements that give us security, to know where an edge of a certain object ends - gone. This is when our mind re-enters formlessness. But how in the world did that happen with opened eyes into this world...

 

The trigger was simply the practice of self-enquiry through the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi which instantly work for those who sincerely want it. At that very day where I ended reading the chapter about Samadhi it happened to me. Including what I lateron read about the feeling of "horror" someone in the audience described and SRM just replied that it would be the last strings of ego left before it is completely dissolved into the Self. There are different samadhis and it was not a fully absorbed, but still with and through this physical body. The trigger was fear of losing this body, losing parents. By no means tied to SRM, but for him it was the same. It was when his father was about to die or died. And SRM overcame a groundshaking, full circle fear of what one would call complete destruction and loss of every sense of Self and thus he let it overcome himself, just to see what happened. And the same fear triggered it for me. It is a complete fear. There is no greater fear, after that experience fear is known in it's totality. It is the first and last barrier we have here. It is purely related to these physical senses and apparently not knowing what else one is, as consciousness.

 

I was not able to let it overcome me. Or maybe it happened in that moment. I dont know. At least I was only physically aware and the Self was seen through and felt through the eyes of another. It is impossible to describe.

 

I feel I dont want to do this purely from the mind anymore. All the energies are missing. Surely it is the most direct way there is, but is -complete- when done from the Spiritual Heart, Inner Heart.

 

Thank your for reading

Edited May 16, 2016 by 4bsolute